stoneill wrote: » Now the Loyalists are saying they are pulling support for the GFA over the Irish Sea border issue.https://www.dw.com/en/northern-ireland-loyalists-pull-support-for-good-friday-peace-deal/a-56766549 What will they do? Bomb indiscriminately? Shoot port workers?
dogbert27 wrote: » If they start a campaign they will not be attacking the EU or Republicans but the British government so are they really going to start a civil war? The EU will not get involved and say it's an internal UK matter to address.
farmchoice wrote: » if they start a campaign they will target Catholics and possibly the republic, no logic to it but its all they know. the thing is to operate at any level the loyalists need the active assistance of certain arms of the British state, elements of the security and intelligence services. they got this assistance in the past but surely they would not get it anymore. it was one thing for the British state to tacitly support attacks on those who they believed (mostly wrongly) were actively attacking them at the time. surely they would not go as far as facilitating attacks on customs posts in the Heart of NI. customs post is the wrong term, customs facilities, offices etc.
fly_agaric wrote: » Nope unfortunately for us (in Ireland). If they really do go back to the gun over the UKs deal with the EU (unlikely at the moment?), it'll be the "Enemies"/"Traitors" inside NI (i.e. the local nationalists) and in Ireland that they threaten and attack as they've always done in the past. edit: I suppose the former could be described as starting a low level sort of "civil war" in the UK, but not in the sense you meant.
dogbert27 wrote: » Ireland would have to use this internationally to be seen as an EU country being attacked by UK insurgents for a protocol approved and being implemented by their own government and have the EU demand action from the UK to stamp it out. This is not an internal fight between north and south, Catholic vs Protestant so don't bring it down to the level that they want you to. This has to be kept focussed on a paramilitary group within the UK taking action against a UK government and if they carry out any violence in the Republic it has to be reported as an attack on the EU and if they target Catholics in Northern Ireland without consequence it has to be reported that the UK government are allowing it's own citizens to be murdered because of their incompetence of implementing a protocol that they have approved. Also if they are to see people as traitors to them then it would be Tory UK government who approved the NI protocol.
fly_agaric wrote: » Sorry I agree with you really (as regards what has happened). I was not trying to descend to their level there, just trying to explain the warped mindset as I see it, which has very little relation to the truth of matters or history of Brexit since 2016 that has taken us here. You mentioned "suicide" and they are in a sort of death-spiral and railing against reality. Nothing that Unionists (let alone Loyalists) have done since 2016 has much sense let alone strategic logic to me.I suppose if they did attack local border infrastructure etc. or port/UK customs officials (perhaps Catholic/nationalist by co-inky-dink??) that is technically attacking the "UK government" alright, but they would not see it that way.
dogbert27 wrote: » Although I could see Boris initially claim that it is an internal matter for Northern Ireland to address!
beggars_bush wrote: » And now we see why border infrastructure on the island is not a good idea
yagan wrote: » Especially considering Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU. There's no democratic support on the island for a hard land border.
BonnieSituation wrote: » So if loyalism doesn't agree with the Irish government, the UK government, Alliance and Nationalists, then who do they agree with?* [/SIZE]
Infini wrote: » Do nothing except bluster to be honest. The DUP and these Loyalist Crime Gang's are basically living in another reality. They dont have the support they think they do and they've spent the last number of year's undermining their own support base by constantly supporting this failed Brexit Ideology. Let's be honest here, the NI protocol isn't going to go anywhere, as much as the Tories try to agitate otherwise when faced with real threats they're cowed quickly because at the core they're incompetent idiots. If they keep agitating like this it's going to backfire on them. There's plenty of ways to put the pressure on the Tories gradually and effectively by targeting area's where they will feel the hurt the most. This isn't 1970 or 1980 it's 2021. Time's have changed. People have changed. An entire Generation of people have grown up without the threat's or violence of previous decades and these Loyalist headbangers are quite honestly way out of their depth. This whole problem was caused and created BY the Tories. Not only that but the majority of people there are only intent on getting on with their lives. If they start getting out of hand the most likely result is the Brit's are going to end up rounding them up and arresting them and sending them back to Jail. They neither have the capabilities or widescale support of the people anymore. More so over the last number of year's the DUP have done more to undermine the union they supposedly support with their headbanger antics, I honestly think their actions are because they're threatened by the Alliance Party taking their votes and marginalising these incompetent headbangers. They cannot mount any serious campaign and if they were to actually to attempt a bombing of the republic it would have serious ramifications for the UK internationally as they would only be able to do something like that with explicit government support which they no longer have. They'd likely be intercepted before even getting that far now with the advancement of technology and that. It's ultimately the last gasp of a dying breed, their tactics and threat's are no longer potent, they no longer have the support of the communities and arguably the state itself and they're throwing their toys out of the pram trying to look imposing but are only alienating themselves further and further from people. They need to face the consequences of their decisions and accept they messed up with Brexit and if they have grievances then they best take them up with Boris as noone else wanted this except him and his party.
Hurrache wrote: » All they're short of is supplying bank details and ask for donations to the cause.
schmoo2k wrote: » Add from New York Times + Washington Post - bound to help the NI protocol issue no end:
yagan wrote: » It's needed because not talking about a united Ireland is ostrich behaviour. FG and FF may not want to upset the DUP, but SF exists because of the sectarianism of the calvinist planters, which is the foundation of the NI unionist identity. The unionists only loyalism is to themselves.
PeadarCo wrote: » Talking about a united Ireland is what has caused this mess.
FrancieBrady wrote: » A strong front is required to ensure the NI protocol survives. The diaspora engaged and rallied around the GFA, why not now? Is this sit in the corner and be quiet time for nationalists again?
PeadarCo wrote: » Talking about a united Ireland is what has caused this mess. You do understand the "calvinist planters" are dead and buried a few hundred years ago at this stage. It's pure hypocrisy to complain about sectarianism and refer to your fellow Irish people with the term "planters" . Unionists under the GFA are Irish and are entitled to an Irish passport it doesn't matter if their idea of being Irish is different than yours. If a person is born(with one exception) in Ireland a person is entitled to an Irish passport. We don't go back a few hundred years through a person's lineage before the decision is made. What Northern Ireland needs is less talk about a united Ireland. If Brexit results in NI being more integrated into the Republics economy than the UKs the pressure for a united Ireland will naturally grow. Get the protocol working first.
