NoviGlitzko wrote: » Hey guys. I use Binance and was thinking of setting up a bot for my crypto, but worried about how the constant buying and selling will be traceable for CGT. I can't find much info about this online. Can anyone help me?
bosco12345 wrote: » Surely there will have to be some sort of compromise in regards CGT for crypto trading. 33% is a complete scam for the level of risk you take trading alt coins.
Hellotonever wrote: » The metagame of Ireland is to dissuade you from using any other investment vehicle unless its property. Legislations are tough on anything other than property because the government wants you to keep solvency only in property.
Bob24 wrote: » I honestly don’t see property as an attractive investment from a tax perspective for an individual landlord (REITs are another story). IMO individual investors in general are being discouraged, regardless of the investment vehicle. Plus the problem with property is that it can’t be moved. So it is the easiest asset to tax as the owner can’t transfer their tax liabilities to a different jurisdiction if/when they have enough.
Hellotonever wrote: » Its definitely the most enticing long term hold here. ETFs get taxed 41% after 8 years on unrealized gains. With 1270eu tax exemption. Its a joke.
Hellotonever wrote: » I myself have moved to Portugal after making 8 figures in crypto. I would've gladly paid 20% but 33% is an utter joke. 1270eu exemption is deranged. Crypto to crypto tax is an insult. Once you realize that Ireland is a country run by scammers and every law exists to gouge you out of money you will realize why its a terrible place. From time to time I still visit and its the same old story.
Rob2D wrote: » Great stuff! Good to finally see someone taking a stand. I doubt I'll ever be making 8 figures at this stage but if I did, I wouldn't be far behind you.
Hellotonever wrote: » The metagame of Ireland is to dissuade you from using any other investment vehicle unless its property. Legislations are tough on anything other than property because the government wants you to keep solvency only in property. Why, you ask? Ask yourself this: How many TD's are landlords. Is it in their best interest to change the system? I myself have moved to Portugal after making 8 figures in crypto. I would've gladly paid 20% but 33% is an utter joke. 1270eu exemption is deranged. Crypto to crypto tax is an insult. Once you realize that Ireland is a country run by scammers and every law exists to gouge you out of money you will realize why its a terrible place. From time to time I still visit and its the same old story.
bosco12345 wrote: » That's unbelievable, fair play to you. Do you mind me asking how you made that? What's the secret ��
el diablo wrote: » There's no secret. He got in early. :pac:
Bob24 wrote: » Yeah TBH with such amount I think pretty much anyone would make the move. Even the most moralising people who criticise others who are doing it would leave - once they realise they literally have to pay millions in taxes if they stay and want to dispose of their assets.
Peregrinus wrote: » Has anybody "moralising person" in this thread cricitised Hellotonever for leaving? I don't think so, but I may have missed it. Regardless, if Hellotonever has "made 8 figures in crypto", that means he has realised gains of between €10 million and €100 million. I get why he would relocate to Portugal to avoid paying 33% in CGT. On the other hand, whether he pays 33% in CGT or not, he has so much money that neither he nor anyone belonging to him need ever work again if they don't care to, so I struggle to say that paying CGT would involve him in any particular hardship, or would constitute any terrible injustice. It's not as though he had done anything socially useful to generate his €10-100 million, or as though his moving to Portugal to avoid the tax is going to involve any hardship for him or - no offence - any loss to the rest of us. I'm puzzled at his suggestion that "the metagame of Ireland is to dissuade you from using any other investment vehicle unless it's property". Gains you make on the sale of your principal private residence are exempt from CGT, but the number of people who realise gains €10-100 million on the sale of their home is, ahem, not large. If Hellotonever had generated a gain of this size on investment in commercial property, or development land, or indeed in any property other than his own home, he would have exactly the same 33% CGT liability as he does for his gains on Crypto - plus (if the land was in Ireland) he couldn't have avoided it by relocating to Portugal. So I don't think the system creates the incentives that he thinks it does.
kippy wrote: » Fair play to the poster, able to retire/move to sunnier climes on their investment choices and in fairness anyone making that much money has the ability to make decisions and changes to their lifestyle based on how best to make and protect that money - which I think all of us would do.
Rob2D wrote: » You must be a real hoot at parties.
Peregrinus wrote: » Has anybody "moralising person" in this thread cricitised Hellotonever for leaving? I don't think so, but I may have missed it.
Peregrinus wrote: » Each to their own. As far as I'm concerned, the point of making money is to enable you to live the kind of life you want to live, not the other way around. So, earning lots of money so you can move to Portugal because you like sunshine and vinho verde — great. But moving to Portugal when you wouldn't otherwise in order to save tax — well, you better have a clear understanding of what you are going to do with the extra money you have, and be satisfied that the social and family disruption of emigrating is worth it to you. And this is doubly true when you are so wealthy that the extra money you save really makes no difference to your lifestyle. By his own account, Hellotonever would be in that bracket, I think. None of which is to criticise Hellotonever or the choice he has made. Perhaps it was the vino verde that clinched it for him. Or, perhaps his personal or family circumstances are such, or he has some project he wishes to advance, that the tax saving really is going to make an important difference to him. Or whatever. His reasons for moving to Portugal will have seemed good enough to him which, really, is all that matters. But it's not a given that everybody who has large capital gains will be better off if they move to Portugal and waith three years before realising their gains. There's more at stake in a decision like than than the money.
kippy wrote: » In fairness, I'd say there were a few more considerations the poster made - not just the tax situation.
Bob24 wrote: » For sure. But any "average" person who quickly achieves a lot of potential wealth and is presented with the eventuality of a multi-million euros tax bill to realise their gains will consider the tax implications *very* carefully. IMO this is especially true with crypto whereby those newly-wealthy people will tend to be in younger demographics which are willing to explore the world anyway. The 8 digits euro amount we are talking about here is very high and the number of impacted individuals is rather small. But I genuinely think that with this type of figure a majority of people will chose to leave and see if the grass is Greene elsewhere (they can also come back after 3+ years once they have made their disposals). Plus there is a whole catalogue of territories with 0 or very low CGT on most continents, so it doesn't have to be Portugal (my thing would rather be Singapore or Hong Kong, but if someone really wanted to stay close to Ireland if I am not mistaken the Isle of Man does the no-CGT trick). And if needs be, spending a few months a year in Ireland without being a tax resident here is a possibility. Now obviously if we are talking 50000 euros worth of capital gains it is a different story ...
bosco12345 wrote: » Any person with an ounce of common sense would move to Portugal or Singapore etc to cash out if they came into a substantial amount of money, let's say +250k. The thoughts of giving the state 33% of X amount of money makes me sick, especially after investing your savings (which is already heavily taxed money), and spending all that time researching and taking on significant risk. Ye F that lol
scwazrh wrote: » In what way are gains through crypto on Revolut subject to CGT ? With Revolut you don’t acquire any crypto ,only exposure to crypto .so you never actually acquire or dispose of an asset. Would income tax apply here instead of CGT ?
Bob24 wrote: » CGT Even if what you have is not actual crypto but rather an IOU indexed on crypto prices, that IOU still is an asset you are purchasing and then disposing of.
scwazrh wrote: » Was hoping that’s the answer , cheaper than income tax
kippy wrote: » That depends on your income surely?
bosco12345 wrote: » That's unbelievable, fair play to you. Do you mind me asking how you made that? What's the secret ��
Peregrinus wrote: » Note that you remain liable to Irish CGT on any disposals you make until you cease to be ordinarily resident in Ireland, which happens three years after you cease to be resident. So whatever crypto holdings you had when you lost Irish tax-residence you need to hang on to for another three years. Same goes for any crypto holdings you aquired during that 3-year period - if you dispose of them while still ordinarily resident in Ireland, there's an Irish CGT liablity.
Bob24 wrote: » Exactly! This kind of figure ... either you were pretty wealthy in the first place or you have been holding for at least 5 or 6 years.
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