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Child Item

ISI Fighter Shamima Begum Not allowed to return to the UK

Eric Cartman

whatever about their management of other scenarios, the UK got this one spot on.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56209007

we should learn from them and never have allowed Lisa Smyth to return here.

Islamic terrorism has no place in europe.

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E mac

washman3 wrote: »

Worth remembering that this line/excuse was totally disregarded at the Nuremberg trials, and rightly so.
Each and every one of them knew exactly what they were doing.:mad:

Of course they knew what was going on! The excuse though is one used by the few still living who were brought to trial in the last few years.

[Deleted User]

end of the road wrote: »

isis no longer really exists thankfully.

Don't be so sure. Not being snarky but look beyond rte.ie/ news. and look on middle east new sites.

[Deleted User]

I wonder what her feelings would be if Islamic State didn't have their asses handed to them?

Rodney Bathgate

end of the road wrote: »

it's only british citizens from northern ireland entitled to irish citizenship from what i understand.
she is not entitled to irish citizenship as she is not from northern ireland.
thankfully.

correct, it wasn't some silly teenage mistake, it was as serious as it gets.
but the fact she was a child when she went to join isis still remains fact, and while she would be responsible once she reaches adult hood for anything she did after that, before hand there are different rules.
syria is not interested in trying foreign fighters so their law isn't going to apply because they want nothing to do with them as they are not from there.

isis no longer really exists thankfully, and when it did it was quite rightly not recognised as anything other then a bunch of violent head choppers.
she does not and never did belong to them given they aren't a state or an anything.

She swore allegiance to them. She ‘belongs’ to them (to use your strange parlance.)

irishproduce

alchemist33 wrote: »

Still no answer as to why Bangladesh should take her? I'm really curious

I'd assume because she is just one step removed from a long lineage of Bangladeshi heritage. She was born in UK but her family are Bangladesh citizens. They could apply for citizenship for her from their homeland.

end of the road

theguzman wrote: »

As a British Citizen she has the right to live and reside in Ireland, I wonder if she has tried our own shower of muppets, I'm sure they would send the Govt jet for her, mutter something about inclusivity and the Good Friday Agreement etc.

it's only british citizens from northern ireland entitled to irish citizenship from what i understand.
she is not entitled to irish citizenship as she is not from northern ireland.
thankfully.

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

She was 15 when she traveled halfway across the World to join an international terrorist organization, that was well documented as to being committing atrocities at the time. This wasn't some silly teenage mistake.

You make it sound like she drank a naggin to quick and got sick on her parents carpet.

correct, it wasn't some silly teenage mistake, it was as serious as it gets.
but the fact she was a child when she went to join isis still remains fact, and while she would be responsible once she reaches adult hood for anything she did after that, before hand there are different rules.
syria is not interested in trying foreign fighters so their law isn't going to apply because they want nothing to do with them as they are not from there.

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

She belongs to ISIS now. Not Britain.

isis no longer really exists thankfully, and when it did it was quite rightly not recognised as anything other then a bunch of violent head choppers.
she does not and never did belong to them given they aren't a state or an anything.

Guy:Incognito

Do the people supporting this also believe we should have to keep foreign terrorists who end up here if their countries decide they dont want them back?

[Deleted User]

I'm of the opinion that at 15 she can't be held responsible for her actions. Show me a 15 year old that's not impressionable.

alchemist33

Still no answer as to why Bangladesh should take her? I'm really curious

[Deleted User]

My heart says to not let her back. She burned her bridges, knew what she was doing, and showed no remorse whatsoever.

But, my head says different. We are all collectively safer with her in the UK in prison. Rather than out in no mans land, resentful, and doing god knows what. I’d worry that the next time we see her she is in London with a suicide bomb strapped to her

Rodney Bathgate

[Deleted User] wrote: »

At last, a post based in reality.

Well said.

As far from reality as you can get.

[Deleted User]

end of the road wrote: »

nope their management of it was a complete failure that only delays the inevitable, as in her eventual return to britain, which will happen in the end whether britain wants it or not.
lets be honest, it was politically motivated nonsense by a home secretry who was trying to appeal to people who don't even recognise him as british because of the color of his skin.
lisa smith would have been returning here anyway eventually, it was better it be at our own hands then her either being deported or even worse escaping the camps and getting in here and us not detecting her.
islamic terrorism has no place anywhere the same as any other sort of terrorism.

they may think they are sending out such a message but they aren't.
the only message they are sending out is that they will dump their citizens on other countries when it is politically expedient to do so, and even if that may breach international law they won't and don't care.

why should the civilians of syria have to put up with her and other foreign fighters?
she can be kept away from the decent hard working people of britain by, you know, being locked up there.
if she does end up here then the irish government should absolutely deport her to britain with imediot effect.

and quite rightly so.
because 2 can play that game, and if we wanted to deport a citizen of another country back there who had irish citizenship or had even the ability to gain it, theoretically that country could strip them of their citizenship so they wouldn't have to take them back.
that's a situation which cannot be allowed at any cost and i'm sure britain will find this out.

At last, a post based in reality.

Well said.

Rodney Bathgate

end of the road wrote: »

they can't and they won't as she is not from Bangladesh but from britain.

well, because, you know, she belongs to them.

she is still a british citizen dispite the revokation of her british citizenship, as it is quite likely an illegal revokation given the country britain has been trying to palm her off on has said she is not one of their citizens, and dispite the issues of that country they would not lie and would be best placed to know who is and isn't one of their citizens.

She belongs to ISIS now. Not Britain.

end of the road

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Bangladesh can take this piece of human garbage.

they can't and they won't as she is not from Bangladesh but from britain.

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Why should the UK take her back?

well, because, you know, she belongs to them.

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Her British citizenship had been revoked. She is not a British citizen.

she is still a british citizen dispite the revokation of her british citizenship, as it is quite likely an illegal revokation given the country britain has been trying to palm her off on has said she is not one of their citizens, and dispite the issues of that country they would not lie and would be best placed to know who is and isn't one of their citizens.

end of the road

Rodin wrote: »

The Brits were right to get independence from the European courts.

Meanwhile in Irish courts today, despite a judge admitting to having the power to give a life sentence, a judge gave less to a man convicted of raping a 6 month old. He even suspended part of the sentence. I have no words....

that's an irish courts decision and issue.
if we left the european courts and even the european union which are both separate organisations, this would have still happened.
for what it's worth iagree it was a disgraceful decision that he didn't get life.

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I'm sure the girls that were taken as slaves by ISIS were all over age.

they wouldn't have been, but that doesn't change the fact that a number of those who went to fight for isis were children themselves, children who were groomed online, which is very serious and would be taken seriously in other situations of grooming.
they were also allowed to slip out of britain with no questioning or anything because britain doesn't bother to control it's borders as it would have to pay people.

suicide_circus wrote: »

Thats a little simplistic to be fair, if she went to join a white supremacist group would you think the same? She joined a group whose cruelty and murderousness was on a scale rarely seen.

i would think the same yes.
countries don't get to dump their citizens on other countries.

Rodney Bathgate

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're the one thinking with your arse.

You've offered nothing to the thread other than hysterical flatulence.

Wrong.

CtevenSrowder

Odhinn wrote: »

A rather harsh view, given that she was but 15 years when she went off.

She was 15 when she traveled halfway across the World to join an international terrorist organization, that was well documented as to being committing atrocities at the time. This wasn't some silly teenage mistake.

You make it sound like she drank a naggin to quick and got sick on her parents carpet.

end of the road

Eric Cartman wrote: »

whatever about their management of other scenarios, the UK got this one spot on.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56209007

we should learn from them and never have allowed Lisa Smyth to return here.

Islamic terrorism has no place in europe.

nope their management of it was a complete failure that only delays the inevitable, as in her eventual return to britain, which will happen in the end whether britain wants it or not.
lets be honest, it was politically motivated nonsense by a home secretry who was trying to appeal to people who don't even recognise him as british because of the color of his skin.
lisa smith would have been returning here anyway eventually, it was better it be at our own hands then her either being deported or even worse escaping the camps and getting in here and us not detecting her.
islamic terrorism has no place anywhere the same as any other sort of terrorism.

biko wrote: »

I'm glad it worked out like it did. Unlike some other countries UK and Denmark are sending out a strong message that if you leave the country to join such a horrendous terror sect you are not welcome back.

they may think they are sending out such a message but they aren't.
the only message they are sending out is that they will dump their citizens on other countries when it is politically expedient to do so, and even if that may breach international law they won't and don't care.

punisher5112 wrote: »

The UK rarely gets it right but that lunatic is best kept out and as far away from the hard working decent citizens.

Probably end up here like many others though.

why should the civilians of syria have to put up with her and other foreign fighters?
she can be kept away from the decent hard working people of britain by, you know, being locked up there.
if she does end up here then the irish government should absolutely deport her to britain with imediot effect.

theguzman wrote: »

A Brexit Bonus if you will, even if Ireland decided to do similar to Lisa Smith etc. then the EU Court of Human Rights would just overrule any similar scenario here.

and quite rightly so.
because 2 can play that game, and if we wanted to deport a citizen of another country back there who had irish citizenship or had even the ability to gain it, theoretically that country could strip them of their citizenship so they wouldn't have to take them back.
that's a situation which cannot be allowed at any cost and i'm sure britain will find this out.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wrong.

Wrong.

Wow, that was easy.

[Deleted User]

She’s only 21 and already buried 3 children. Beggars belief.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Was.

Wrong.

[Deleted User]

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Keep telling yourself that.

You're the one thinking with your arse.

You've offered nothing to the thread other than hysterical flatulence.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Shamima Begum is a British citizen.

Was.

suicide_circus

theguzman wrote: »

As a British Citizen she has the right to live and reside in Ireland, I wonder if she has tried our own shower of muppets, I'm sure they would send the Govt jet for her, mutter something about inclusivity and the Good Friday Agreement etc.

Oh i'd say she'd be welcomed with open arms

[Deleted User]

washman3 wrote: »

Worth remembering that this line/excuse was totally disregarded at the Nuremberg trials, and rightly so.
Each and every one of them knew exactly what they were doing.:mad:

Well that's exactly how the US treated them.

osarusan

Beasty wrote: »

That appeal will progress, possibly with her attending via video link, and if she wins it there may be a new debate over whether a UK citizen can be denied entry into the country

I don't think it is the case that the appeal will progress.

She is entitled to take a full part in her own defence, but not to the point where it causes safety concerns, so the most likely outcome is that her appeal against the order removing her citizenship will be paused until it is possible for her to play a full role in her own defence without causing safety issues...which may be never.

From the judgement:

The appropriate response to the problem in the present case is for the appeal to be stayed until Ms Begum is in a position to play an effective part in it without the safety of the public being compromised. That is not a perfect solution, as it is not known how long it may be before that is possible.

Rodney Bathgate

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not possible.

It is illegal for Britain to make a citizen stateless.

Keep telling yourself that.

theguzman

As a British Citizen she has the right to live and reside in Ireland, I wonder if she has tried our own shower of muppets, I'm sure they would send the Govt jet for her, mutter something about inclusivity and the Good Friday Agreement etc.

[Deleted User]

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Her British citizenship had been revoked. She is not a British citizen.

Not possible.

It is illegal for Britain to make a citizen stateless.

[Deleted User]

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Why should the UK take her back?

Because she is a British citizen and that is where she grew up.

She is of no responsibility to any other country.

It is illegal for British citizens to be made stateless, ergo she has to go back to Britain.

This is tremendously simple stuff. The law is in no way iffy on this.