ooter wrote: » Progress.https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1060630/
Enquiring wrote: » So Kerry didn't have their own development plan drawn up and paid for them. Same as the Cork ladies. On the other hand, Dublin did have their own plan drawn up and funded for them. Hence why there's calls for splitting Dublin and not the others.
rebel girl 15 wrote: » Best argument there to show that you don't need money to be successful - opposite of many posts. Similar to Kilkenny when they were successful around 2000's - excellent development structures, which money can help, but money CANNOT buy.
If Cork men got their act together and were hugely successful, would you want to split their county? Or when the Kerry footballers were at their height? Split Kerry in half sure? Or when the Cork ladies were dominating at all age grades (ladies football had U14, U16, minor and Sen B championships and we had one year where we only lost the U14 Munster final, won every other title including U14 All Ireland through the backdoor).
All this rubbish on here about true supporters of the game etc, what nonsense. Call a spade a spade as some of this is typical Irish begrudgery - Dublin are successful so lets knock them off their pedestal - lets cut their funding, lets split them in half etc etc. I'm getting to the point as a poster on here (without my mod hat on) that for three or four years the same stuff is posted by people behind a screen. My question is besides moaning about it on here, what are you actually doing? The structures of the GAA are there to be used for change, have any of you submitted motions to your clubs? Your clubs submit that motion to your county and up the chain?
If you put a plan in place, you can attract money - it is hard work, but many county boards seem to be interested in big money from sponsorship only. I'd look at Roscommon as an example with their Win a Home draws - €943,000 income two years ago and just over €900,000 this time despite Covid and issues with the GB side of the draw - that is profit btw. Roscommon wouldn't be a big county but that's not bad fundraising by any means. So should Roscommon be deducted that from the Games Development funding since some of the money is going to find the Dermot Earley Centre of Participation??? What is stopping other counties from doing the exact same and raising their own funds? Nothing.
superbluedub wrote: » That was 8 years ago;)
Dublin's natural advantages (Quarter of countries population and growing, massive sponsorship potential, vast, vast majority of games at home, no long travel for training) make it so, Dublin winning and continuing to win is an inevitability rather than a likelihood.
rebel girl 15 wrote: » Best argument there to show that you don't need money to be successful - opposite of many posts. Similar to Kilkenny when they were successful around 2000's - excellent development structures, which money can help, but money CANNOT buy. You can employ as many GDO's as you like, but if they can't coach well, then there is no point. KK got former players in over their underage teams, they even published a training handbook for every single club team in the county - I got my hands on a copy of it. If Cork men got their act together and were hugely successful, would you want to split their county? Or when the Kerry footballers were at their height? Split Kerry in half sure? Or when the Cork ladies were dominating at all age grades (ladies football had U14, U16, minor and Sen B championships and we had one year where we only lost the U14 Munster final, won every other title including U14 All Ireland through the backdoor). All this rubbish on here about true supporters of the game etc, what nonsense. Call a spade a spade as some of this is typical Irish begrudgery - Dublin are successful so lets knock them off their pedestal - lets cut their funding, lets split them in half etc etc. I'm getting to the point as a poster on here (without my mod hat on) that for three or four years the same stuff is posted by people behind a screen. My question is besides moaning about it on here, what are you actually doing? The structures of the GAA are there to be used for change, have any of you submitted motions to your clubs? Your clubs submit that motion to your county and up the chain? If you put a plan in place, you can attract money - it is hard work, but many county boards seem to be interested in big money from sponsorship only. I'd look at Roscommon as an example with their Win a Home draws - €943,000 income two years ago and just over €900,000 this time despite Covid and issues with the GB side of the draw - that is profit btw. Roscommon wouldn't be a big county but that's not bad fundraising by any means. So should Roscommon be deducted that from the Games Development funding since some of the money is going to find the Dermot Earley Centre of Participation??? What is stopping other counties from doing the exact same and raising their own funds? Nothing. Biggest number of potential players are in Dublin therefore they will get a larger figure, which should be roughly the same per head as other counties - which I think was disproportionate but is now levelling out. Biggest number of potential jersey buyers - therefore Dublin will always attract top money for sponsorship of jerseys.
Enquiring wrote: » What are you talking about money cannot buy development structures? It already has been shown that money has bought Dublin unbelievable development structures, across multiple sports across the globe, billions are invested in developing talent, are they all wasting their money? Are you trying to claim that having 1.5 million to spend on coaches every year is not an incredible resource to have? No one is calling for any other county to be split because they weren't drawn up a detailed plan and then provided millions to put it in place. It's as simple as that. Other counties have gained success naturally, if Dublin had done the same, there wouldn't be an issue. It's not just the men's and women senior footballers by the way. It's about 100 titles won across the board post funding. And that will continue. Are you in favour of one county having close to 10 million to spend on wages and development alone? It's up to all of us to stand up and spread this as far as we can. Make representations to our clubs and county boards, this has already been stated. Busting the myths, lies and deflection of those in favour of the financial disparity is very important in all of this. What was stopping Dublin from raising their own funds? Why did they have to go running to Bertie Ahern? While every other county had to work with what they had and compete with volunteers, Dublin were given millions to gain access to professionals to oversee their development scheme. Cork have a similar amount of youth teams and players to Dublin and half the population, they have had access to fractions of the coaches provided for Dublin. The gap between Cork in second and Fermanagh in last is quite small in terms of funding over the past 20 years. The only major gap is between Dublin and everyone else. This has obviously helped with standards, which leads to improvements in marketability, which leads to an increase in sponsorship. 2.3 million per year for Dublin at the last count. It's crazy levels of finance available. That's why the split must happen.
Enquiring wrote: » In 2013, Dublin beat Wexford, Kilkenny and Galway to win their first ever Leinster hurling title featuring mostly Dublin players.
Past30Now wrote: » I've said this earlier, and don't like to selectively quote somebody, but by linking this win to GPO funding, you are actively undermining your case. As juvenile hurlers, the GPO didn't exist for these guys. This team was an older experienced team who had improved over the previous couple of years, gotten in an experienced management team, and had the season of their lives. This has nothing to do with GPO funding.
SheepsClothing wrote: » It's not a zero sum game. Every cent of GDO funding was money that Dublin GAA didn't have to put into games development themselves. Allowing them to put money towards the coaching of elite senior and youth teams. Most counties don't have this luxury, they're too busy fighting fires.
Enquiring wrote: » I don't know if you're just thinking back and remembering it as an old, experienced team and forgetting the reality but the facts just don't back up your assertion. The funding in Dublin began in 2002. Dublin won their first Leinster minor hurling title for decades in 2005, they won another one in 2007. They won their first Leinster u21 title since the early 70's in 2007, they won 2 more in 2010 and 2011. Look at the players who played in the senior Leinster title win in 2013, how many of them won underage titles? These players for sure: P Kelly, P Schutte, L Rushe, J McCaffrey, J Boland, D Sutcliffe, D Treacy, M Schutte, S Durkin and then others came through the system. There were a few imports from Galway and Tipperary who obviously didn't come through the system, maybe that's where you're getting confused? I know it takes away from the victory and it's something that is hard to accept but without the increase in standards at underage, caused by the increase in funding, Dublin would not have won that provincial title. The thing is, promoting hurling in weaker counties like Dublin were is something we all want. It all goes back to the question of why was this limited to a Dublin only scheme. We all should be angry at those who made this decision.
superbluedub wrote: » In 2013 ? That was 8 years ago :rolleyes:
tritium wrote: » Why was it a dublin only scheme, let me see Well the GAA knew there was an issue with dublin participation, so something was going to be done there regardless. The GAA also knew that previous GD projects had been a bit of a farce - See Nicky Brennan’s comments re how counties had spent GD money on inter county So something different was trialled. Like any trial project you don’t do something across the board until you know it is viable. That minimises the risk, which based on previous experience was a very real concern. Forcing the clubs to put their hand in their own pockets had a similar effect, with the GAA only funding half the personnel effectively. How long to get to that point of knowing it’s viable? Well as has already been pointed out this about participation at school level so it will realistically be a few years. In spite of your very poor time travel stuff it’s not immediate I’m afraid It also involves a huge amount of oversight, again given the Leinster council wasn’t exactly trusting of how GD funds had been used historically, which explains a portion of the resources used - for this see the leinster council minutes that were referenced in previous posts Could it have been rolled out elsewhere sooner, possibly, built I’d argue not that much sooner, possibly 2-4 years, ie maybe 2013 instead of 2017, though some other posters have engaged in fair and respectful debate on what the timeline could have been. Personally I’d argue that is a reasonable point to say things seem to be working or not. Would it have meant dublins funding would have been cut faster? Unlikely, the funding needs to sustain a project if its working, the current pace achieves this. Why wasn’t it expanded sooner? I think the reaction to dublins blue wave plan may be telling here. Even at that stage many in the GAA didn’t take dublins ambition seriously - put simply dublin took the opportunity to evolve seriously when many expected some sort of half baked effort. Only when the leaps dublin had made with their structures was undeniable did anyone sit up. Funnily enough that’s also when lots of people who (I) knew exactly what had been happening and (II) had every opportunity to object or look to expand the project suddenly decided it was terribly unfair Is this different to other GAA projects? Possibly in scale, which is necessary to some degree given dublins population but not apart from that. East Leinster and Belfast also benefit from targeted programmes. I’m sure posters may be aware of others. All stuff that’s already repeated as nauseum throughout this thread
SheepsClothing wrote: » The last time anyone, other than Dublin lifted Sam Maguire was 7 years ago. :rolleyes:
tritium wrote: » The cork ladies won 11 in 12 years, Kilkenny hurlers won 8 in 10. The world and the GAA didn’t end then and it won’t end now just because it’s the dublin footballers (and let’s be honest this is about the dublin senior footballers no matter how much folks try to shoehorn in other dublin teams)
ArielAtom wrote: » Contrary to the the opinion of some misguided folks her, the split will not happen.
Enquiring wrote: » The Cork ladies or Kilkenny hurlers didn't have 2 decades of huge funding pumped into developing players within their counties. As you know, that's why the calls for them to be split weren't happening. Dublin have won about 100 titles post funding across grades and codes. Trying to brush things under the carpet is not going to work but of course, the titles gained were just the inevitable outcome of the highly financed Dublin only scheme, the reason we have to take action is because of the plan being put in place to begin with.
The governing body of a sport bankrolling one participant above all others is unheard of and obviously an outrageous and disgraceful act.
tritium wrote: » Saying it over and over doesn’t make your carefully selected facts true or relevant. Your argument was holed below the waterline long ago. The thing with dublin, kklkenny and cork is all three set themselves up properly for success. Fair play to all three of them
Enquiring wrote: » Do you have evidence to show that the Kilkenny hurlers and Cork ladies were drawn up and funded their own scheme? Do you have evidence for anything? You're saying my argument was holed long ago but you haven't produced anything to even scratch the surface. On the other hand. I've provided hard evidence to show the level of funding Dublin received, why it was brought in, who devised the plan, where the money has gone, the impact it has had on standards across Dublin GAA, statements by Dublin GAA officials confirming where the money has gone and its impact on elite level players, figures showing that the funding wasn't distributed on a per capita basis, demonstrating how Croke Park is the Dublin footballers home ground...... I could go on but you get the message.
flasher0030 wrote: » But it's different with Dublin. It's a conveyor belt now where the cash that was injected into Dublin GAA has just rolls out athletic player after athletic player, and then just need to fine tune their skills, diet, jobs etc. with all the backroom staff they have - and hey presto, you have the killing machine.
superbluedub wrote: » Nothing lasts forever , Dublin will be losing soon enough and hey presto you will have a new killing machine
