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The way forward for LC2021

History Queen

I'm interested in the views of other teachers as to what should happen to assess the work of LC2021 students. With growing calls for cancellation of the exams and predicted grades, I fear we are sleep walking in to a repeat of last year's debacle.

My personal view is the exams should go ahead as scheduled but perhaps a further review of papers to allow for more choice should happen, suggestions submitted from subject associations maybe?

As regards projects/orals/practicals I can only speak to my own subjects. In History I feel the project should go ahead as planned.

What do others think?

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km79

Bobtheman wrote: »

Bottom line no teacher will be forced to work Easter.
If you give into school pressure that's your business.
Given the way a lot of young teachers don't bother attending union meetings and climb over their colleagues for the stipends of promotion- you will get some who will gladly do it.
Leave them off.
The department created this farce. Let them iron out the details. Stop thinking above your pay grades people.
There are people on 6 figure salaries to do that.

It will be paid voluntary SEC work as it always was

km79

km79 wrote: »

It will be paid voluntary SEC work as it always was

Confirmed here
https://www.tui.ie/_fileupload/Leaving%20Certificate%202021%20Guidance%20for%20members.pdf

Which also says mocks can not run due to H&S.......

jimmytwotimes 2013

km79 wrote: »

Confirmed here
https://www.tui.ie/_fileupload/Leaving%20Certificate%202021%20Guidance%20for%20members.pdf

Which also says mocks can not run due to H&S.......

Not took sure about the position that orals, practicals shud be completed by all.

Some students don't want to do orals as it'll interfere with the study they'd do if they were taking papers in other subjects but not a language.

I know they're not obliged to anyway.

History Queen

Wombatman wrote: »

Guidance from who, the TUI or The Department? Didn't think DES issued any advice to cancel mocks?

The unions and Department. We're duel union and to be fair, I think, sensible in taking the approach of no rash decisions until full details are checked.

Bobtheman

Has there been any information released on how we arrive at these am grades? For LC
I have to laugh at the don't use the mocks instruction.
How the hell will they know?
Not stopping any teacher just giving a student a grade by any combination of methods they individually design or just off ghr top of their heads..

r93kaey5p2izun

Official guide is out.

Random sample

Nyla Worried Son wrote: »

Official guide is out.

Where?

r93kaey5p2izun

Random sample wrote: »

Where?

I was sent it by TUI. I'm trying to see can I link it directly or find it on department website.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/81e76-a-guide-to-state-examinations-and-accredited-grades-for-leaving-certificate-2021/

PoolDude

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/81e76-a-guide-to-state-examinations-and-accredited-grades-for-leaving-certificate-2021/

jimmytwotimes 2013

Bobtheman wrote: »

Has there been any information released on how we arrive at these am grades? For LC
I have to laugh at the don't use the mocks instruction.
How the hell will they know?
Not stopping any teacher just giving a student a grade by any combination of methods they individually design or just off ghr top of their heads..

Last year we were to use previous performance and "professional judgement" to allow for the students who leave it late to study etc

Don't expect stringent criteria this time around either

milosh

even more choice being given on papers. The greatest leaving cert results ever seen are on the way.

Hopontop

I see students can only be given max 3 class tests per subject (1 hour max each) between now and May 14th, how are they going to be prepared for the actual real exam!?

km79

Hopontop wrote: »

I see students can only be given max 3 class tests per subject (1 hour max each) between now and May 14th, how are they going to be prepared for the actual real exam!?

Most of them won’t do it is what the DES are hoping
Same with the mocks

Random sample

milosh wrote: »

even more choice being given on papers. The greatest leaving cert results ever seen are on the way.

Where do you see that?

Bobtheman

When they say alignment do they mean you should roughly keep your overall grades within the past school performance?

Mardy Bum

I am unsure what evidence teachers are supposed to use if tests of less than one class period and mocks are not allowed to be used. What students have sat any other type of assessment? One set of Christmas exams in fifth year?

Wombatman

Is this ranking again?

From doc. Bottom of page 11.

Individual performance: Teachers will demonstrate that no two students are placed on the same estimated percentage mark. Percentage marks may include up to two decimal places i.e. 83.22%, 83.33%, etc.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Can someone link please?

r93kaey5p2izun

Wombatman wrote: »

Is this ranking again?

From doc. Bottom of page 11.

I suppose it is and it isn't. Yes, you essentially are ranking them. But if they apply for data access, there is nothing telling them where they placed in the class, unlike last year.

Wombatman

Nyla Worried Son wrote: »

I suppose it is and it isn't. Yes, you essentially are ranking them. But if they apply for data access, there is nothing telling them where they placed in the class, unlike last year.

Bottom of page 22. I guess they will deduce where they were placed, from talking to friends, when they see their marks.

A short time following the issue of results, candidates will have access to more detailed information about both sets of results. They will be able to see the estimated marks submitted by their school and the SEC Accredited Grades following the standardisation process. For candidates who took the certificate examinations, they will be able to see the marks awarded in the written examination, and the marks awarded in any components.

For candidates who did not take the Leaving Certificate Examinations the estimated percentage marks submitted by the school and the SEC Accredited Grades only will be available.

This information will aid candidates who may opt to appeal a result in a subject.

r93kaey5p2izun

Wombatman wrote: »

Bottom of page 22. I guess they will deduce where they were placed, from talking to friends, when they see their marks.

Yeah, but sure there's no way to stop that. At least they aren't looking at "rank 25" in black and white, knowing there were only 25 in the class.

Treppen

Mrsmum wrote: »

My son's class had an assembly this morning. Told mocks were going ahead beginning week 8th March including during the weekend ! Some students asked if they had to do them if they were opting for AG. The answer was every student must do them. A student said she understood they were not to be used for AG but how would they not colour teacher's decision. Told if you do well they will colour your teacher's decision on your grade positively.

Christ that Principal hasn't a clue.
Department are today advising against mocks.

Treppen

Wombatman wrote: »

Is this ranking again?

From doc. Bottom of page 11.

Individual performance: Teachers will demonstrate that no two students are placed on the same estimated percentage mark. Percentage marks may include up to two decimal places i.e. 83.22%, 83.33%, etc.

No mocks,
possibly very few substantive tests
Might be a new sub
Students unable to log in for classes
Other half of that student's class possibly cheat on home weekly tests.

Good luck with determining between an 82.23% student and an 82.24% student :pac:

The moderation algorithm from last year seems more accurate than what this year's one is going to be!

LW2018

Of course they announce that there will be further changes to the exam papers... but the details of this will follow. Surely students and teachers could do with this information as soon as possible with regards to forward planning and structuring exam prep! Around March 22nd... a joke!

jimmytwotimes 2013

LW2018 wrote: »

Of course they announce that there will be further changes to the exam papers... but the details of this will follow. Surely students and teachers could do with this information as soon as possible with regards to forward planning and structuring exam prep! Around March 22nd... a joke!

Bad alright

History Queen

LW2018 wrote: »

Of course they announce that there will be further changes to the exam papers... but the details of this will follow. Surely students and teachers could do with this information as soon as possible with regards to forward planning and structuring exam prep! Around March 22nd... a joke!

And where is the widespread condemnation of the Department of Education? The Department is utterly dysfunctional. When will answers be demanded and a root and branch reform of the Department undertaken? The last 12 months have highlighted an ineptitude that those working in education have been aware of for years, will anything come of it? I doubt it.

Edit: sorry for the rant.... I spent too long on twitter this evening reading posts complaining about teachers and unions :pac:

PoolDude

14% of students to sit all papers, 33% to take all AG’s and just over 50% to take a mix of both according to an article in the Indo. Wonder will it change with the news there will be more choice on the papers - doubt it, it might just change the number of papers taken by those planning to take a mix. I’ve said before I see it as two chances to get a good grade v choice and think this change reenforces that

rainbowtrout

PoolDude wrote: »

14% of students to sit all papers, 33% to take all AG’s and just over 50% to take a mix of both according to an article in the Indo. Wonder will it change with the news there will be more choice on the papers - doubt it, it might just change the number of papers taken by those planning to take a mix. I’ve said before I see it as two chances to get a good grade v choice and think this change reenforces that

If those numbers hold true, and 33% take all calculated grades, then in some schools there will probably be a noticeable absence rate.

Wombatman

rainbowtrout wrote: »

If those numbers hold true, and 33% take all calculated grades, then in some schools there will probably be a noticeable absence rate.

Absence rate after the 14th of May?

amacca

Wombatman wrote: »

Absence rate after the 14th of May?

No before the 14th starting next Monday Id say

There will be ones that don't care much and only show up to one subject with the teacher they "like" and the ones that are simply choosing to do a small number of subjects leaving them with a day or two they dont have to come in and they think that is their optimum strategy to maximise points

There will be the ones that wouldn't turn over to scratch themselves so PG is the easy option

There will be the ones that either have chosen very low requirements in terms of points courses and don't need to do will find it hard to motivate themselves to do any work

There will be the ones that believe if they do exams then their exam grade will be the one dept uses and will secretly downgrade their PG if there is a large discrepancy between it and actual grade - people love a good conspiracy theory and given that you won't know PG before exam I think?? Then you can sort of understand that given way dept etc has behaved.

Then there will be the ones strategically absenting themselves from classes and tests especially believing their PG is in the healthiest state now and if they do tests etc it will drag it down.

There might be a small cohort that reckon on taking most exams to guarantee highest mark possible and wont come in much preferring instead to study at home rather than have the disruption of coming in for class

There will also be a cohort living with very high risk people who understandably will want to stay out

I'm sure there are lots of other reasons there could be a large drop in attendance for 6th yrs

I'd imagine high/close to normal attendance for all other years that come back later :pac: