Choochtown wrote: » You've never in 10 years of teaching your subject at Leaving Cert compared students' results to your own assessment?? I find that very hard to believe. Surely that is done in every school in the country on the 1st day back of a new school year? How on earth is it easier to grade H3, H4, H5, H6, H7 and H8 than it is to grade H1 and H2?? You didn't openly say to the class that you weren't bothered but you posted it here. The fact that you are "not bothered" is what disturbs me. (Although yeah admittedly letting the class know as well would be disturbing as well)
Stewie Griffin wrote: » Part of me suspects that there may be no exams this year too. Can the recruitment process happen in time? I suspect they are banking on similar numbers to the November cohort, which means that the same number of superintendents will only be needed.
Choochtown wrote: » A couple of points spring to mind following last night's announcement. 1. Let's say a teacher gives the child of a friend a H1 and this is approved by the principal etc and gets registered as that student's "predicted grade". The student of course has no knowledge of this and sits the exam anyway achieving a H6. Can the SEC use this information to downgrade the predicted grade? I would argue that this is much fairer than whatever algorithm they may come up with. 2. Let's say Covid numbers don't fall as hoped. What's to stop Norma getting what she wanted anyway and just cancelling the exams (big money saved!) and using the predicted grades?
Teach30 wrote: » Gosh I’d never do all that for a new subject Id just wing it! I have done my best to understand the assessments but I’m still never sure if I apply marking schemes correctly. Asking other teachers isn’t an option, I’m the only one teaching my subject to LCs. I’m teaching it with 10years though and keeping them happy, LCs have never complained so I must be doing something right! I thought you could only give so many H1s and H2s I’m not bothered about the rest they are easier to grade. If someone needs a H1 for points and they are between that and a H2 I’d totally give them the H1. Would they get in if they sat the exam? maybe but I have never marked LC so I couldn’t be definite that the answers they provide are H1 or H2.
Teach30 wrote: » I’ve never compared class results with their LC result! Once a group is finished I’d look at their results and that would be it. I’ve never even considered predicting grades for a class. Why would I? And I’m not going to openly say it to the rest of the class that I’m not bothered about them that would be silly! What I mean is they are easier to grade the H1 and H2 are way more difficult.
Moody_mona wrote: » ... Because they want to be remembered for the right reason. I live in the town I teach in, I understand the difficulties with assigning grades to students and then seeing them in SuperValu, but regardless of the fact that you assigned it calculated the grade, it's what they have given you evidence of. ACCS confirming all students finishing a week early.
Mardy Bum wrote: » How regularly do your students get H1s? You have two scenarios - If this is not a regular occurrence- Are these students more able and intelligent, harder working and diligent than your previous cohorts? How can you prove this? Has your teaching improved dramatically in the last year that may have resulted in bigger gains? If you can answer yes to these, then you could potentially give a H1 despite having no history of it. If H1s are a regular occurrence - Are these students similar to your previous students who attained a H1? Can you prove that they are at a similar standard? If this is a yes, give them a H1. If they are not, give them a lesser grade.
Choochtown wrote: » Your recent posts are very worrying Teach30. I was under the impression that you were a young and newly-qualified teacher and your inexperience was allowing your heart to overrule your head regarding predicting grades for your students. You've been teaching your subject for 10 years. Surely over the 10 years you have set class assessments? Surely over the 10 years you have looked at the grades your students have achieved in your subject? Surely you have compared the 2? This is how you come to a predicted grade. Your comment about H1s and H2s and not being "bothered about the rest" is very insulting to the vast majority of your class.
Teach30 wrote: » I think I’m panicking a little and overthinking it all. I’ll go on the results I have. And prob be generous to anyone who is between H1 and H2. Genuine question What happens If a student sat only one test and got a H1 and actively avoided all other tests and are certainly not H1 standard as they haven’t been in school ...? Do I still go with that result?
Moody_mona wrote: » With the caveat that my info is coming from the ISSU IGTV video last night, no these are independent of each other and will not have and effect on each other.
Teach30 wrote: » Genuine question What happens If a student sat only one test and got a H1 and actively avoided all other tests and are certainly not H1 standard as they haven’t been in school ...?
Choochtown wrote: » 1. Let's say a teacher gives the child of a friend a H1 and this is approved by the principal etc and gets registered as that student's "predicted grade". The student of course has no knowledge of this and sits the exam anyway achieving a H6. Can the SEC use this information to downgrade the predicted grade? I would argue that this is much fairer than whatever algorithm they may come up with.
am_zarathustra wrote: » Knowingly giving someone a grade above a possibly more deserving student is not right.
am_zarathustra wrote: » Consider if every guard in the country applied this to their job. You are employed as a professional, it is your job to understand the curriculum and the assessments within that subject. I have a totally new subject this year, I'm not qualified to teach but it was that or the kids wouldn't have a teacher. I have spent untold hours going over the guidelines, talking to other teacher sin the area, reading the SEC subject documents, pouring over marking schemes to get a feel for the assessment of the subject. This, in my opinion, is required work. If your looking to keep everyone happy then you are doing your students a disservice and they won't thank you in the long run,
Rosita wrote: » You are missing the absolute thousands upon thousands who can now down tools having no academic requirement in particular which necessitates the sitting of the Leaving Cert e.g. people who already have been offered a place on a plc course, and the absolute thousands upon thousands who can relax in the knowledge that whatever academic requirement they do need will be met easily by predicted grades. I know several students personally who have been banking on this since September. You will never hear the Minister for Education or the newspapers talking about people like this but they are out there in big numbers. They will find plenty of relief from the 'heavy workload'. Some will not darken the door of the school again and - to revisit a theme from a day or two ago here - any teacher or Principal who thinks even for a moment that they can hold lack of attendance over them in any shape or form with regard to calculated grades, think again. Other winners are borderline cases in Maths who are hanging on for the bonus points. Irrespective of their ability, good luck to any teacher trying to talk them down in these last few months. And they'll have the safety net of taking OL in the LC in the unlikely event that they won't be fairly confident of the grade they are getting at HL. I say unlikely in that I'd expect teachers who are minded to fail people in predicted grades will, in the students' best interests, drop strong hints. Other teachers, by their very personal nature, will find it impossible not to do so in any event. Other winners are OL language students who might have needed to drop to Foundation Level. Why would they do that now with no requirement to do an oral or even a written exam? Would a teacher really fail them? Other winners are those who can now drop subjects which they find time-consuming and relatively unrewarding in the context of potential improvement. I am thinking, maybe, Irish, English and Maths, where gazumping your natural level of ability is difficult. Students with a good work-ethic can now drop some subjects such as these especially if they are in good standing with the teacher, knowing that they would be unlikely to better the probable calculated grade in the exam, and concentrate on information-heavy subjects where they could maximise their grade with no risk. You will have the occasional student who'll be hurt at not having the chance to show the world how amazing they are. But of course they still can do that. But they will be few and far between. By and large, students played the stress card and came up trumps. It's hard to think of any losers at this point. The force of the inevitable storm around results and the nature of the transition to third-level might tell a different tale. The Dept of Ed is well aware that they have taken the populist route. The most telling straw in the wind as to what they are really thinking is the prediction that the Orals will be conducted over a couple of days, when normally this would be a two-week process. Clearly they expect hardly anybody to do the Oral exams in the expectation that they will be catered for under predicted grades. You can be sure that they expect this will be the case across most subjects. This plan is there to put the Leaving Cert to bed, and like any good three-card trick man they are offering the illusion of "choice" while in reality encouraging you to take the choice they want you to take. Based on the announcement from the Minister last week ahead of the talks which more or less told us what the conclusions would be before they started, you'd wonder what they were talking about all this time because there's little evidence of the teacher unions' fingerprints on these outcomes.
am_zarathustra wrote: » If every teacher gives the students their best day grade based on their previous performance (this is vital) the standardization (provided it's less opaque than last year ) will take care of the rest. There are a lot of caveats to this I know, hard to really get a grasp until we have more info. Deliberately changing the order of merit in a class is not the same. The best student gets the best grade, then the second best gets the second best grade......we will see how school history plays out in the end, that high court ruling is not out til the 10th
Mardy Bum wrote: » Both those situations you outlined are the same when it comes to a national average. The best day and best paper scenario is a terrible measurement because it is meaningless.
am_zarathustra wrote: » I agree more staff will err on the side of the students best day with the best paper to suit their talents and preferences. This is fine in general, it'll be roughly even for everyone and won;t be wildly different from their grades in class. It might even make it fairer if we are all singing from the same sheet. Knowingly giving someone a grade above a possibly more deserving student is not right.
km79 wrote: » After a lot of teachers and students getting burned last year this attitude is going to be prevalent this year That’s the reality
Teach30 wrote: » Will undoubtedly be a bit of both. I rather not be remembered for all the wrong reasons. Sorry if I’m of being too honest for here!
