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The way forward for LC2021

History Queen

I'm interested in the views of other teachers as to what should happen to assess the work of LC2021 students. With growing calls for cancellation of the exams and predicted grades, I fear we are sleep walking in to a repeat of last year's debacle.

My personal view is the exams should go ahead as scheduled but perhaps a further review of papers to allow for more choice should happen, suggestions submitted from subject associations maybe?

As regards projects/orals/practicals I can only speak to my own subjects. In History I feel the project should go ahead as planned.

What do others think?

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Random sample

Nyla Worried Son wrote: »

Right. My main query then would be about levels. Will students be allowed to choose the level of the exam on the day as normal. I think any change to that would be unfair. So say they opt for HL predicted grade with risk of failing, can they then sit OL in the exam as an insurance policy?

Those are the kind of points that need to be considered before a full announcement. There’s a huge amount of work to be done on this.

r93kaey5p2izun

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Yes. So it’s a gamble not sitting the exam and maybe not being happy with the predicted grade, but students can all move on together rather than sitting exams 6 months later

Right. My main query then would be about levels. Will students be allowed to choose the level of the exam on the day as normal. I think any change to that would be unfair. So say they opt for HL predicted grade with risk of failing, can they then sit OL in the exam as an insurance policy?

djemba djemba

So everyone gets a pg but has the option to do the exam and is given the highest. Exams in June.

wirelessdude01

Be interesting to see the students reaction to this.

rainbowtrout

Nyla Worried Son wrote: »

So a predicted grade for all, you choose whether or not to sit the exam without knowing the PG, and then when results come out in August you keep the higher of the grades ifv you sat an exam?

Yes. So it’s a gamble not sitting the exam and maybe not being happy with the predicted grade, but students can all move on together rather than sitting exams 6 months later

rainbowtrout

PoolDude wrote: »

I'd have suggested the opposite. Try lock in decent grades in weaker subjects and don't risk it going wrong and then nail the other 3 or 4 to try get H1's, e.g. if you find the languages difficult take the PG and try get H1's in the subjects that are more black & white.

Ya the winter exams supports that theory

r93kaey5p2izun

So a predicted grade for all, you choose whether or not to sit the exam without knowing the PG, and then when results come out in August you keep the higher of the grades ifv you sat an exam?

Polka_Dot

Wombatman wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/leaving-cert-students-will-have-option-to-sit-exam-or-have-calculated-grades-while-the-junior-cert-has-been-cancelled-40103038.html

Again sounds like PGs first.

Then option of exam if not happy.

From the IT:

"The Government and unions are keen to encourage as many students as possible to sit the written exams and remain engaged with classes until the end of the school year.

They believe the fact that students will not have sight of their calculated grade results in advance of the June exams will provide an incentive for most students to sit the written papers as an “insurance policy”."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/q-a-what-kind-of-choice-will-students-have-in-this-year-s-leaving-cert-1.4487662

am_zarathustra

Ha sure we are still waiting to find out what happened last year!!!!

Random sample

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Really feel for everyone who will be caught up in this process. Devil will be in the detail of said process. Wonder when will everything be fully known?

August. Because no matter what is decided it will be changed after the fact.

Wombatman

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Gavan Reilly seems to think that CG/PG will be unknown before written exam.

This means students will automatically receive a calculated grade for each subject they take based on their previous work and an assessment from their teacher.

They will then also have the option of sitting a physical exam for their subjects

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/leaving-cert-students-will-have-option-to-sit-exam-or-have-calculated-grades-while-the-junior-cert-has-been-cancelled-40103038.html

Again sounds like PGs first.

Then option of exam if not happy.

wirelessdude01

Really feel for everyone who will be caught up in this process. Devil will be in the detail of said process. Wonder when will everything be fully known?

Wombatman

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Gavan Reilly seems to think that CG/PG will be unknown before written exam.

Crazy. No choice then. Have to sit exam or risk being shafted.

am_zarathustra

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Gavan Reilly seems to think that CG/PG will be unknown before written exam.

Then I'll be recommending every kid in my class sits the exams. Got stung last year, the most unlikely student to underperform got hit in a couple of subject, not risking that again. There will be mass inflation in PGs this year so a lot of students could be effected

I can see Irish and maybe Maths having a few just take the PG and then the usual messer's but even the messer's might do better in an exam, with the last term push and all I can't "predict" that but it happens

Smacruairi

Either way I can still see most teachers erring on the side of caution and predicted grades will be like the English variant, with 40% higher. Literally no reason not to say to the kid "don't drop to pass, I'm sure you can get 40%" and then let them sit the paper also and sure that's their double chance of passing

wirelessdude01

Wombatman wrote: »

So my understanding from this is:
All students to be offered predicted grade.

Then students will be offered and option to sit the exam if wanted.

Best result will count obviously.

So timeline is:
First predicted grade given to student.
Then student decides to sit exam.

Is this how everybody else is reading the situation?

Gavan Reilly seems to think that CG/PG will be unknown before written exam.

scrubs33

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So pick your better subjects for PG and sit the harder ones or am I totally misreading it?

The devil is in the detail as they say but to be honest this is turning out like Who Wants To Be A Millionaire at the moment: 'Do you want to set your safety net at 2 H1s and and O3 or will you take a chance in a written exam?'
'Can I phone the Minister please Jeremy?'
I think mid term and the absence of Zoom is getting to me!!

Wombatman

Alqua wrote: »

I saw somewhere (will look for link) that students could opt for both a predicted grade and an exam, getting the higher of the 2 grades at the end. Surely the exam would take precedence? Can't see it in that article.

Edit: This wasn't where I saw it but Gavan Reilly has it here:
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1362080602602827782

Leaving Cert 2021 pupils to be offered a predicted grade, with option to sit physical exams if wanted - the higher grade from the two will prevail

So my understanding from this is:
All students to be offered predicted grade.

Then students will be offered and option to sit the exam if wanted.

Best result will count obviously.

So timeline is:
First predicted grade given to student.
Then student decides to sit exam.

Is this how everybody else is reading the situation?

wirelessdude01

PoolDude wrote: »

I'd have suggested the opposite. Try lock in decent grades in weaker subjects and don't risk it going wrong and then nail the other 3 or 4 to try get H1's, e.g. if you find the languages difficult take the PG and try get H1's in the subjects that are more black & white.

Funny how everyone will have a different view on this.

Smacruairi

3 things -1 will an algorithm be applied to PGs like last year? If so, do we know if all the errors are sorted, and if they tweaked it for high achieving schools like St Kilians etc.

2. When are the orals to take place etc?

3. Wonder how this goes down with students?

LW2018

We really need clarity now on the orals and practical exams. It will determine the focus for language teachers upon the return to the virtual classroom come Monday. We need to know this timeline.

No harm with the JC. I think I will move back to basics with them and improve on areas with minimal focus on those dreadful Junior Cycle learning outcomes and unnecessary topics. Will keep them focused and get them somewhat ready for senior cycle - looking at sample texts etc and build on comprehension skills.

For those who opt for CG, are we assessing the full class group - grades to be used in the CG process and the others are just gaining exam experience / skills? I think, personally, they need to made choose one option or the other and not be given the best of two results. Make their decision and stick to it. And let them be aware about the standardisation process that will take place too - the teacher's calculated grade is highly unlikely to be used exactly as it is. Interesting to see how all this plays out... a lot left to be answered.

PoolDude

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So pick your better subjects for PG and sit the harder ones or am I totally misreading it?

I'd have suggested the opposite. Try lock in decent grades in weaker subjects and don't risk it going wrong and then nail the other 3 or 4 to try get H1's, e.g. if you find the languages difficult take the PG and try get H1's in the subjects that are more black & white.

Alqua

rainbowtrout wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-students-to-have-choice-between-predicted-grades-and-exams-1.4487319

Thanks, can just make it out above the paywall! It'll be interesting to see what "different formats" these will be, especially for music where little or no preparation could be done.

rainbowtrout

Alqua wrote: »

Where are you seeing practicals and orals mentioned?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-students-to-have-choice-between-predicted-grades-and-exams-1.4487319

Alqua

rainbowtrout wrote: »

So basically the same as last year except exams happen in June, and practicals and orals will happen as well.

Where are you seeing practicals and orals mentioned?

rainbowtrout

So basically the same as last year except exams happen in June, and practicals and orals will happen as well.

Alqua

I saw somewhere (will look for link) that students could opt for both a predicted grade and an exam, getting the higher of the 2 grades at the end. Surely the exam would take precedence? Can't see it in that article.

Edit: This wasn't where I saw it but Gavan Reilly has it here:
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1362080602602827782

French Toast

The Junior Cert has been cancelled.

Gonna spend the rest of the year on a Netflix binge with my 3rd Years so :P

wirelessdude01

rainbowtrout wrote: »

And here we go

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2021/0217/1197572-leaving-cert-talks/

So pick your better subjects for PG and sit the harder ones or am I totally misreading it?

rainbowtrout

And here we go

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2021/0217/1197572-leaving-cert-talks/