OEP wrote: » The lack of planning hasn't been emphasised enough, which has been an absolute disgrace and that falls on the shoulders of Norma Foley - simple as.
Iguarantee wrote: » You make a good point. Granted a school principal has much responsibility, as do many teachers. One of my children cut their head in primary school after tripping in the playground. The teacher advised that they couldn’t apply any bandages or use alcohol wipes etc as they “weren’t allowed”. Instead, my child walked out of the school with a tissue in her hand, holding it to her head. Obviously this is one isolated anecdote, however my point is that not all teachers have a large level of responsibility or even freedom to act based on their own policy experience or even in the best interests of the child. A lot of people think their job is hard or at least harder than most others. In my experience, teachers firmly fall into this category. I’m familiar with grinds schools for leaving cert etc. where teachers can command much higher wages. I wouldn’t say there are a whole load of those around though, in Cork I’m only aware of 3 or 4.
OEP wrote: » They don't want private sector wages though. Teachers are sacrificing the potential to make a big salary over - take your pick from - love of vocation, subject, lifestyle... Yes there will be some who take advantage of the lifestyle aspect but they are in the minority. Not being able to progress like in the private sector is, in my opinion, a huge downside to teaching and the main reason why I could never do it. A teacher with 27 years experience makes €70k - I was earning in or around this after 4 years and I'm very much in the average in my job and not the exception. With 7 years experience I now earn the same as a principal of a medium sized school with nothing near the level of responsibility they have.
political analyst wrote: » Neither does it make her a bad minister.
maestroamado wrote: » That is perfectly clear, why you could not have said that earlier suggests to me you are the one who is incoherent. I am genuine not informed in the teachers and am kinda interested, we get so many different versions i asked as i do not know why all the schools are not opening as planned I was and am trying to find out if the teachers have a genuine health and safety reason or if unions are causing the trouble. I think if i was given the axe i be chopping a few heads too but not informed on this one. Many thanks for clarity...
shesty wrote: » I got the impression Michael Martin was shepherding that, rather than Norma Foley being the driving force. It was when the spotlight went off it, and she was left to her own devices that it all seemed to go downhill.
Smacruairi wrote: » Are you ok? You seem very incoherent. I want her sacked because : She failed to have a contingency for schools being closed due to covid, she didn't instigate a national remote learning platform so that school experience wouldn't vary depending on where they are in the country, she didn't plan for the leaving cert at all it seems, she didn't plan for the junior cert at all and still hasnt, her communication is awful, and she lies about having consulted people and is routinely corrected by the tanaiste and taoiseach, in the public no less. She has made no provision for children with additional needs, seems to not talk to parents at all unless through twitter, and her public utterances routinely inflame everyone. What about that is unclear to you?
enricoh wrote: » Here's a 41year old primary school teacher on 52k a year, and they're still crying about pay and rejecting new pay increases. Cry me a river, with half a million people out of work at the mo! Let them strike away for more n ignore them.https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/money-diaries-21-5350675-Feb2021/
Iguarantee wrote: » My point wasn’t a direct transplant of the private sector model to the public sector. I was stating that, in the private sector, an increase in pay is almost always substantiated with actual evidence. Salaries are higher in the private sector because people are more profitable in the private sector. As an example: there are call centre staff working at Apple that make more than €51k a year, not because they’re more educated than teachers, but because they provide more non-productive income for Apple. I’ve seen it in my own work: I’m paid €X, I’m contracted to another company and my agency charges them 1.5X or 2X in some cases. Teachers do an important job. But they want private sector wages whilst retaining the security of public sector jobs. They can’t have it both ways unless something major changes.
Iguarantee wrote: » Salaries are higher in the private sector because people are more profitable in the private sector. .
iamwhoiam wrote: » I dont understand why anyone would think that being a teachers would equate to being a good Minister of Education . A teacher is an educator , trained and educated to a high level . Their skill is in teaching and guiding young people I think it is so arrogant of Ms Foley to think her training would be suitable for this job ? Surely it takes skills in politics , economics and leadership I was a trained and skilled nurse , I wouldn’t ever consider that that would in any way make me suitable or qualified to be the Minister for Health
Gatling wrote: » Being a teacher doesn't mean you would make a great or exceptional minister ,she's litterally driving blind she wasn't listening to anyone at the table ,then met with one special needs parents group and suddenly special needs are priory over Everyone else , rather than take the approach of keeping all children safe ,she decided she was queen b and she knows better than everyone else ,
jam17032010 wrote: » Can you imagine this method of salary negotiation in the public sector? Laughable. Take half an hour off there and think it through I would suggest.
mayo londoner wrote: » Regardless, the whole origin of this debate relates back to the arrogance and ignorance of the poster above stating that people not earning 50k were uneducated/unskilled to which he was rightly pulled up on.
Wanderer2010 wrote: » Id love to hear how some people would propose solving the issue with the unions holding education to ransom? Easy to say shes this and shes that but does anyone actually have a viable alternative around opening schools that wouldnt involve these powerful unions?
mayo londoner wrote: » :pac::pac::pac: Ah again the irony, making a fool of yourself at this stage princess. I've been logged into work for 6hrs so far today since 7.15 this morning, it's called flexitime. Safe to say I've worked as much in those 6hrs as you will for all of next week.
maestroamado wrote: » I want to know why you ask for a Minister to be sacked. When i ask what she is working on as i am typing this you simply say. I DON'T KNOW. You mentioned schools returning in the first line of your original post. When i ask on this you tell me thats for another thread. I decided to post on your thread but you do not want to engage. If you want to get a person fired you need to know what they doing in their brief. What are you on about??
Smee_Again wrote: » I'm not a manager, don't know why you'd think that. 12 years is a long time, sure it's no wonder you're so bitter.
Iguarantee wrote: » A 41 year old teacher would have closer to 20 years experience. I question why such a job should command higher wages? The sense of entitlement associated with teachers is laughable. In the private sector, if you want more money then you have to leverage it by changing jobs or having a salary/performance review at your current employer. This involves convincing your current/prospective employer that you’re responsible for more than your job description alludes to. I’ve never heard the teachers taking this approach, simply doing your job as described doesn’t warrant an award or a pay rise (time served salary scales excepted).
jam17032010 wrote: » See mayo londoner, you are giving out about teachers and their short days and long holidays. Yet you are the one on boards.ie all day when you should be working. What a joke. While I am on mid term this week, I guarantee I won't have time to be on here next week. And many teachers chose their jobs for the work life balance, as did you. Stop being a hypocrite.
Smacruairi wrote: » Sorry I don't understand your post at all, and I don't even think I've posted with you before. What are you actually on about?
French Toast wrote: » While putting a huge focus on opening schools full whack in September (which, in fairness to her, went well), herself and the DES failed to begin a contingency plan for LC2021. .
maestroamado wrote: » After yet another few days of leaks about the reopening of schools, it transpires that she again hadn't informed her cabinet colleagues. This is the first linr of your original post. You are saying you want "the head" of a Minister and when i ask you what she is working on this very day you say it is not up for discussion. GET REAL...
