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Child Item

Norma Foley has to go [MOD WARNING IN 1ST POST]

Smacruairi

After yet another few days of leaks about the reopening of schools, it transpires that she again hadn't informed her cabinet colleagues.

Why has she not been replaced? Has there ever been a minister who has been repeatedly making a bags of this and lasted this long? Like the dept of health is bad, but this is on another level it seems, particularly around communication. Do FF realise that their most public ministers are Donnelly and Foley, who surely have approvement ratings in the single digits, while FG have paschal and Coveney who are quietly keeping things moving along?

Is there a plan, even a political one?!

Mod: We're not going to have another iteration of the "Schools closed thread', with teacher bashing and histrionics couched as 'opinion'. Any posting that strays into that territory will be met with a card and immediate threadban.

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Smacruairi

meeeeh wrote: »

I think the main impression people got from this is that children and their needs don't matter. So yes there was a mistake that too much of an influence was given to unions when by far the biggest group affected by all this are children but they don't have a lobby group representing them .

What influence? Teachers asked for unified remote platform for students, that was denied. Students wanted additional supports for those affected by covid, a panel of remote teachers made etc, that was denied. Teachers wanted a roadmap for the lc and jc from sept with various scenarios and contingency plans, that was denied, "schools are safe ". Teachers wanted more funding for those with additional needs, more teacher allocations to split classes, this was denied. So no, your ignorant rant is not valid, meeeeh. Please go back and educate yourself, otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation.

Also students have their student voice in every school, have the ISSU which is party to all talks, and the parent's Council. You can ask Norma why she ignored these stakeholders in every step she has taken as minister.

jam17032010

mayo londoner wrote: »

Strange how you are attacking the man but not disputing any of the points from the original post, says it all, head in the sand, hilarious!

Address your points?

I have adressed your poor grasp of statistics when you claim to have formed your "opinions" based on a handful of friends. I suspect your opinion comes from something else however.

Which brings us to your bitterness, anger and the type of person you are. How you treat your gf and friends speaks volumes and is worthy of remark. Not worthy of remark on the thread topic of Norma Foley really, but on the direction you have steered it based on your own biases.

You even predicted that your bitterness would be used as a retort against you. Perhaps because deep down, you know.....

Smacruairi

dubrov wrote: »

Cost is a huge factor. It's easy to have a good relationship when budgets increase massively. How many of those reforms you refer to didn't affect the budget?

So basically you don't have an idea, you just want to talk about salaries, thanks. Want to engage on the thread about Norma? Are certainly didn't affect the budget, in fact the fact that she didn't even bother to instruct the SEC to go about even hiring examiners, invigilators etc so presume she made a saving there.

meeeeh

Smacruairi wrote: »

What influence? Teachers asked for unified remote platform for students, that was denied. Students wanted additional supports for those affected by covid, a panel of remote teachers made etc, that was denied. Teachers wanted a roadmap for the lc and jc from sept with various scenarios and contingency plans, that was denied, "schools are safe ". Teachers wanted more funding for those with additional needs, more teacher allocations to split classes, this was denied. So no, your ignorant rant is not valid, meeeeh. Please go back and educate yourself, otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation.

Also students have their student voice in every school, have the ISSU which is party to all talks, and the parent's Council. You can ask Norma why she ignored these stakeholders in every step she has taken as minister.

You sound like Shinn Fein and their funds from general taxation. Where exactly will you get your extra teachers on you magic teacher growing tree? New classrooms on the magic classroom growing three? Besides school ran fine before Christmas, there were no major issues. Funding for additional needs is fine but what do you want it for? To make teaching from home easier? To send volunteers to schools so union members don't have to go?

Student union and Parents Council are useful but not powerful enough, neither they represent everyone.

Anyway i'm un-following this thread because unfortunately I'm not on mid therm break and a bit pressed for time.

mayo londoner

jam17032010 wrote: »

Address your points?

I have adressed your poor grasp of statistics when you claim to have formed your "opinions" based on a handful of friends. I suspect your opinion comes from something else however.

Which brings us to your bitterness, anger and the type of person you are. How you treat your gf and friends speaks volumes and is worthy of remark. Not worthy of remark on the thread topic of Norma Foley really, but on the direction you have steered it based on your own biases.

You even predicted that your bitterness would be used as a retort against you. Perhaps because deep down, you know.....

:pac::pac::pac:

Haha you're the gift that keeps on giving ! Bitterness and begrudgery are the standard two terms used to describe anyone who has the audactity to criticise teachers, simple as that.

I'd hardly call approx 12 teachers as a handful, and don't see what that has to do with 'a poor grasp of statistics' but I'd expect nothing less than a condescending tone from a teacher. A read through social media and day to day encounters/chats with others about your behaviour and entitlement is enough 'statistical data' for me and others to form our opinions, again though, you clearly have the head in the sand.

'How I treat my gf and friends', another classic. To repeat again, just because you are a teacher you are not immune to criticism, friend or no friend. Ye don't realise how good ye have it, I don't begrudge you one bit of the perks/conditions, the rest of the country is just fed up of the constant 'poor me' narrative from the the likes of you and other teachers and not afraid to call out the bull**** when it needs to be done.

Smacruairi

meeeeh wrote: »

You sound like Shinn Fein and their funds from general taxation. Where exactly will you get your extra teachers on you magic teacher growing tree? New classrooms on the magic classroom growing three? Besides school ran fine before Christmas, there were no major issues. Funding for additional needs is fine but what do you want it for? To make teaching from home easier? To send volunteers to schools so union members don't have to go?

Student union and Parents Council are useful but not powerful enough, neither they represent everyone.

Anyway i'm un-following this thread because unfortunately I'm not on mid therm break and a bit pressed for time.

Deflect to Sinn Fein, make up imaginary strawman argument, pose questions and answer them that no one in the thread asked, avoid sticking to the thread, little ad hom at the end, then leave the thread. Grand, thanks for that Meeeeh, see you on all the other teaching threads you tend to frequent. But I'll take your condemnation if Norma that even you think she has to go. Grand.

jam17032010

mayo londoner wrote: »

:the rest of the country is just fed up of the constant 'poor me' narrative from the the likes of you and other teachers and not afraid to call out the bull**** when it needs to be done.

My to do list today:

1. Must do a google search for the dreams/reality meme from father Ted and attach it to this post. This mysterious "poor me narrative" is a figment of your imagination I suspect.

2. Must start thread on boards castigating an entire group of people based on 12 friends. I think I'll call it: "Health and Safety Officers - Is it a job requirement to have a superiority complex with a cranky disposition and enjoy telling others how to do their job better and in a safer way?" I think I need a catchier title though. Thank God I have great holidays to work on things like this.

Speaking of which mayo londoner, you seem to have plenty of time on your hands to respond to this thread. Flicking between Safety Statements and boards.ie on your computer must be an art form. Just don't let the boss catch you!

By the way, what's your high score on solitaire?

[Deleted User]

LasersGoPewPew wrote: »

Would you care to enlighten us as to how you would sort this mess? The unions are holding children's education to ransom. It doesn't matter who's in the minister's position, they will still get shat on by the laypeople for supposedly mishandling the situation or not doing enough to kiss the union's ass.

Come on .... she's worse than Comical Ali. It was obvious for months that there wasn't going to be a Leaving Cert last year. Same goes for this year - in fact this year's leaving certs are in a much worse position than last years. The Department of Education woman they wheeled out wasn't any better.

[Deleted User]

hamburgham wrote: »

A 5 1/2 hour working day to say nothing of finishing even earlier if you’re teaching infants.

183 days a year, say 37 weeks. Gross up the 52k to a normal 48 working weeks and it’s 67.5k equivalent and that’s before any adjustment for the short working week.

And yeah I’ve heard all about the prep. No one else has ever to do prep for their job only teachers.

Not forgetting the gold plated defined benefits pension at the end .....

RandRuns

I don't rate Norma Foley much, but if the teachers she's dealing with are as sensitive and reactionary as the ones on here, I'm not surprised she's having problems.

mayo londoner

jam17032010 wrote: »

My to do list today:

1. Must do a google search for the dreams/reality meme from father Ted and attach it to this post. This mysterious "poor me narrative" is a figment of your imagination I suspect.

2. Must start thread on boards castigating an entire group of people based on 12 friends. I think I'll call it: "Health and Safety Officers - Is it a job requirement to have a superiority complex with a cranky disposition and enjoy telling others how to do their job better and in a safer way?" I think I need a catchier title though. Thank God I have great holidays to work on things like this.

Speaking of which mayo londoner, you seem to have plenty of time on your hands to respond to this thread. Flicking between Safety Statements and boards.ie on your computer must be an art form. Just don't let the boss catch you!

By the way, what's your high score on solitaire?

:pac::pac::pac:

Oh the irony of a teacher of all professions preaching about others and superiority, gas. The difference is other professions just get on with it rather than think the whole world is against them and don't attempt to hold the children and parents in this country to ransom.

If you had read through my original post rather than deflecting from it, you would see that I'm now on the public sector gravy train like the rest of ye, hence the additional time on boards. Taking a break from the safety statements and the 45-50hr work weeks (which would most certainly be a figment of your imagination for the likes of you) for a year or two to see how it goes. I think the pay equality part of my first post covers the 'poor me' narrative of teachers perfectly.

Anyways stick the feet up for the midterm, won't be long till your back doing your 30min zoom call per day, would take it out of any man.

Adios Amigo, I've to get back to Solitaire

Smee_Again

mayo londoner wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac:

Oh the irony of a teacher of all professions preaching about others and superiority, gas. The difference is other professions just get on with it rather than think the whole world is against them and don't attempt to hold the children and parents in this country to ransom.

If you had read through my original post rather than deflecting from it, you would see that I'm now on the public sector gravy train like the rest of ye, hence the additional time on boards. Taking a break from the safety statements and the 45-50hr work weeks (which would most certainly be a figment of your imagination for the likes of you) for a year or two to see how it goes. I think the pay equality part of my first post covers the 'poor me' narrative of teachers perfectly.

Anyways stick the feet up for the midterm, won't be long till your back doing your 30min zoom call per day, would take it out of any man.

Adios Amigo, I've to get back to Solitaire

What I'm getting from all your posts in that you couldn't hack it in the private sector so joined the Civil Service and are now lashing out at teachers because your career didn't pan out the way you'd hoped.

shesty

Mystifying....

What on earth is wrong with the teacher who has 10 years experience and is earning 52K a year. The teacher in the Journal article made no mention of her workload or her pay, she simply itemised her expenses as she was meant to for the purposes of that article. How has it become such a bugbear for so many people, that a professional would be paid reasonably?

hotmail.com

Norma should just push ahead and open the schools in 2 weeks, this has gone on long enough .

If she gets over ruled in cabinet then she should resign.

mayo londoner

Not at all, not sure how you came to that conclusion, 12 years in the private sector. Construction is a stressful industry with next to no thanks or progression but you get on with it, came to a stage where I value work life balance rather than money as I have a life outside of work unlike some and needed to relocate to a different part of the country as my girlfriend is situated here, wasn't sustainable for me to keep my current job, so any other assumption you want to throw out there?

Green Peter

I think she's doing a great job trying to deal with a bunch of egos in a pandemic.

Gaoth Laidir

Norma's automatic answer to anything:

"We understand the pain and anxiety being experienced by students and their families...bla bla bla". Says that for 30 seconds and doesn't answer the original question in the end.

A complete and utter waste of space. Totally in over her head. I'm not saying her job at the moment is easy. Far from it, but she is unable to answer a question directly and instead the line above is her go-to waffle. If you don't know, just say I don't know.

Mr. teddywinkles

mayo londoner wrote: »

So are you saying that just because she's my girlfriend, her and my friends are immune to criticism at times because they are teachers ya?

Strange how you are attacking the man but not disputing any of the points from the original post, says it all, head in the sand, hilarious!

Ya can't teach teachers mate. They know it all.

jmayo

James Brown wrote: »

Unions are member driven whose remit is to look after it's membership.
They don't and shouldn't give two ****s about anything outside of looking after their membership.
Unions are necessary.

Yes but often when you let unions have free reign, allow them be run by trigger happy numpties who would threaten strike at the drop of a hat, you end up like indigenous British industry i.e. non existent.

Now the only place they can still get away with the shyte is in public sector where politicians are affair of taking them on and they hold a country to ransom because they are often in key sectors.
They cause stagnation, continous wastage on massive scales, promotion of incompetence, systemic coverups and never allow people be held up for their sheer incompetence.

All of that plays out in stark reality in our health service where unions and their fellow travellers the representative bodies for medical professionals make the place a complete fookup.
There can never be meaningful change because it would mean people get canned and unions/representative bodies can never allow that.

Just look at how after all the fookups, often causing death, in the HSE not one single person has been ever really found accountable and fired.
The proverbial buck never fooking stops anywhere in HSE or Dept of Health.

For instance where was there ever real accountability in the case of the bast***s that caused the awful treatment in Aras Attracta in Swinford.
HSE management had refused to do anything despite complains until the whole thing was laid bare on television and then some of the staff were on paid suspended leave for years.
For anyone that is interested just read this as for how fooked up the HSE really is.
They can't even manage to carry out a meaningful investigation when there is hundreds of hours of video evidence.

And it is the unions at every level that protects this incompetence and hell even criminality.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1002/1169043-aras-attracta-update/

hamburgham

Smacruairi wrote: »

What influence? Teachers asked for unified remote platform for students, that was denied. Students wanted additional supports for those affected by covid, a panel of remote teachers made etc, that was denied. Teachers wanted a roadmap for the lc and jc from sept with various scenarios and contingency plans, that was denied, "schools are safe ". Teachers wanted more funding for those with additional needs, more teacher allocations to split classes, this was denied. So no, your ignorant rant is not valid, meeeeh. Please go back and educate yourself, otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation.

Also students have their student voice in every school, have the ISSU which is party to all talks, and the parent's Council. You can ask Norma why she ignored these stakeholders in every step she has taken as minister.

"teachers wanted..teachers wanted". We're bored listening to it.

hamburgham

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Them wheelie bins won’t empty themselves.

Such a pathetic response.

I'd say most of us have more respect for bin collectors who haven't let us down than we do for teachers.

political analyst

Why is Norma such a poor education minister even though she was a teacher until she became a TD recently? After all, teaching is a job that involves leadership, doesn't it? Isn't it important to for a minister to have empathy with front-line workers in that minister's portfolio?

hotmail.com

political analyst wrote: »

Why is Norma such a poor education minister even though she was a teacher until she became a TD recently? After all, teaching is a job that involves leadership, doesn't it? Isn't it important to for a minister to have empathy with front-line workers in that minister's portfolio?

Poorer children getting hammered at the moment. The needs of children outweigh adult teachers.

political analyst

hotmail.com wrote: »

Poorer children getting hammered at the moment. The needs of children outweigh adult teachers.

So you think that teachers don't care about their pupils? That's like saying that nurses don't care about their patients.

kona

alroley wrote: »

5 and a half hours???

I get to school at 7.50-8.00 and leave at 4.30 (5.00 on days with extra-curricular).

Jesus, thats awful.

maestroamado

I asked earlier if anyone here knows. What are the teachers looking for?

I am getting opinions on the Minister here but i think this is about schools re-opening.

Smacruairi

hamburgham wrote: »

"teachers wanted..teachers wanted". We're bored listening to it.

Poster asked me for what would fix the crisis... I give an answer, then you post the above drivel. Your ignorance is appalling, and you even broke your own "I'm out of here to do real work lol" and posted several times more. Are you even consistent with yourself? Sad really.

Smacruairi

maestroamado wrote: »

I asked earlier if anyone here knows. What are the teachers looking for?

I am getting opinions on the Minister here but i think this is about schools re-opening.

This thread is about the minister? There's a whole thread devoted to schools reopening? She's completely out of her depth, her leaks aren't even working, and we still have no answers on a leaving cert 4 weeks out from when orals are meant to take place!!!

Gatling

political analyst wrote: »

Why is Norma such a poor education minister even though she was a teacher until she became a TD recently? After all, teaching is a job that involves leadership, doesn't it?

Being a teacher doesn't mean you would make a great or exceptional minister ,she's litterally driving blind she wasn't listening to anyone at the table ,then met with one special needs parents group and suddenly special needs are priory over Everyone else , rather than take the approach of keeping all children safe ,she decided she was queen b and she knows better than everyone else ,

Smee_Again

mayo londoner wrote: »

Not at all, not sure how you came to that conclusion, 12 years in the private sector. Construction is a stressful industry with next to no thanks or progression but you get on with it, came to a stage where I value work life balance rather than money as I have a life outside of work unlike some and needed to relocate to a different part of the country as my girlfriend is situated here, wasn't sustainable for me to keep my current job, so any other assumption you want to throw out there?

I'd argue that finding that work life balance is all part of hacking it in the private sector and you by your own admission couldn't do that, ergo, you couldn't hack it.