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Average V Median wage Ireland?

Benedict

I keep seeing from Govt. figures that the "average" wage in 2020 was approx Euro 49,500 pa. and the average hourly rate is E24.50.

To my mind this is nonsense - just look up "Jobs.ie" and you will see that even 40k pa means you have to have lots of experience & qualification.

The MEDIAN wage is the one to look at - but I can't find it. Does anyone have stats on what is the median wage in Ireland (2020)?

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ELM327

Augeo wrote: »

Just calling it as is it.
I don't pander to the lazy left

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...and so am i.....

lazy left, please explain?

Gents! There's no need for that. The "lazy left" is akin to a Trump-ism and I get malayed for using those.

[Deleted User]

Wanderer78 wrote: »

havent properly used this site yet, but...

https://wid.world/country/ireland/

According to the ERSI income inequality in Ireland is falling.

ELM327

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Depends if US style taxation of citizens regardless of their location in world is brought in. Taxation is one subject that really gets people interested in politics

US citizens abroad pay taxes and have the right to a postal ballot. Taxation with representation. That works for them but I prefer our setup.

Cyrus wrote: »

it depends on what you refer to when you mean the rich, the salaried rich would be interested a scheme like this, the asset owning rich wouldnt.

The salaried middle class like myself would also be interested. You don't have to be "rich" (you'll never really be rich if you are salaried anyway) to benefit, since the highest tax rate kicks in at a measly 35k.

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote: »

Just calling it as is it.
I don't pander to the lazy left

...and so am i.....

lazy left, please explain?

[Deleted User]

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its important to keep our prejudices in check!

Just calling it as is it.
I don't pander to the lazy left

ELM327

Augeo wrote: »

Indeed, I've yet to meet someone who reckons they should have been aborted.

I have met folks including myself that believe the prospective mother should have had the right to choose, myself included though.

Anyway let's not derail what is a good thread, there's plenty of pro/anti choice threads I'm sure.

I was actually a registered member of renua due to their flat tax and crime policies but when it was clear they wanted a party line as opposed to a "conscience vote" like FF, I left. It's a pity. We need a strong center right party in Ireland to sort out a lot of the overspending in DSP and HSE and other government departments.

Cyrus

Peregrinus wrote: »

No. One of the touted attractions of a flat tax system is that the rich pay more (because the slew of deductions and tax breaks and etc that they currently availa of is eliminated) — this is how the reduced tax burden for the middle is largely funded. But if that is an attraction of a flat tax system, then it's also an incentive for the mobile rich to move to a jurisdiction that doesn't have a flat tax system.

it depends on what you refer to when you mean the rich, the salaried rich would be interested a scheme like this, the asset owning rich wouldnt.

Benedict

Peregrinus wrote: »

I doubt that. At worst, most people might think that half of FT workers earn more than that amount, and half earn less. That's what most people think "average" usually means. In fact, that's the figure you think Varadkar should have given, isn't it?

Yes, my mistake, I meant most people (I reckon) listening to Leo's statement think 49k is the median - and there seems to be no available evidence to support that.

Incidentally, surely in order to establish the average, enough data must be available to also establish the median!

It seems to me that the public is being sold the message that 49k is the median which gives the impression that the country is doing really well.
And those who don't think impressions matter should remember the days when Bertie was prating on about how brilliantly Ireland was doing when in fact Ireland was drowning but didn't realise it.

The question "what is the ft worker median wage". This question is central to this thread and nobody can answer it.

[Deleted User]

Cyrus wrote: »

well they were anti abortion, not sure thats a funny point of view.......

Indeed, I've yet to meet someone who reckons they should have been aborted.

Peregrinus

stefanovich wrote: »

They'd move here!

No. One of the touted attractions of a flat tax system is that the rich pay more (because the slew of deductions and tax breaks and etc that they currently availa of is eliminated) — this is how the reduced tax burden for the middle is largely funded. But if that is an attraction of a flat tax system, then it's also an incentive for the mobile rich to move to a jurisdiction that doesn't have a flat tax system.

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote: »

It wouldn't suit the folk with the hand out who pay fnck all tax anyway you see.

its important to keep our prejudices in check!

Cyrus

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

As for Renua didn’t they have funny points of view on abortion and EU?

well they were anti abortion, not sure thats a funny point of view, but it probably didnt do them any favours.

stefanovich

Augeo wrote: »

It wouldn't suit the folk with the hand out who pay fnck all tax anyway you see.

That's where the negative income tax comes in. They'd be better off too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM

[Deleted User]

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This I think needs to be stated a lot more, there has been a huge race to the bottom in a lot of jobs especially as we have a lot of very educated friends coming in from across the EU.

project manager used to be a pretty much solid 60-75k job, now starting in the 40-45 bracket.
Java developers used to start on 50, now its 30k
Product manager for a multinational - used to be 90-100 handy enough, now you'd earn 50-70

We have a growing gap now between people who entered the workforce 10-15 years ago and those entering it today. If you've done a decade in your sector what you're on now, the guy behind you in 10 year time won't be on anywhere near that.

Is there any actual data to support this? The average wage has been rising year on year I'm pretty sure so that doesn't really lend itself to these 40-60% wage drops.

stefanovich

Peregrinus wrote: »

The rich could also move about to avoid a flat tax. Just sayin'.

They'd move here!

Wanderer78

stefanovich wrote: »

Why do you need to give your money to the government for them to share it out and waste it in the process. Allowing everyone to keep more of their wages... What's not to like? And you tax the very rich even more.

do you really think other methods such as the so called 'free market' has the abilities and capabilities, or even interest in sharing wealth? theres no question theres wastage and inefficiencies via our current approach's but.....

[Deleted User]

stefanovich wrote: »

Why do you need to give your money to the government for them to share it out and waste it in the process. Allowing everyone to keep more of their wages... What's not to like? ...........

It wouldn't suit the folk with the hand out who pay fnck all tax anyway you see.

Peregrinus

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Don’t several EU countries have flat taxes and they are not basket cases?

The middle in Ireland gets taxed a lot because they are a captive audience, rich presumably can move about.

The rich could also move about to avoid a flat tax. Just sayin'.

stefanovich

Wanderer78 wrote: »

how so?

I'd prefer not to derail the conversation.

stefanovich

Wanderer78 wrote: »

what bits am in saying are wrong?

Why do you need to give your money to the government for them to share it out and waste it in the process. Allowing everyone to keep more of their wages... What's not to like? And you tax the very rich even more.

Wanderer78

stefanovich wrote: »

Well being a member of the EU is not a positive thing at all. A discussion for another day perhaps.

how so?

stefanovich

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Don’t several EU countries have flat taxes and they are not basket cases?

The middle in Ireland gets taxed a lot because they are a captive audience, rich presumably can move about.

As for Renua didn’t they have funny points of view on abortion and EU? Not that policies parties claim at elections matter, it’s easy to promise the moon.

Well being a member of the EU is not a positive thing at all. A discussion for another day perhaps.

Wanderer78

stefanovich wrote: »

https://wid.world/country/russian-federation/

Look at income inequality since 2001 - stopped going up. Everyone gets more take home pay too. What you are saying is wrong.

what bits am in saying are wrong?

Wanderer78

stefanovich wrote: »

Read this for more on Russia's taxation miracle. We'd all be much better off if we took this approach.

https://www.heritage.org/europe/commentary/russias-flat-tax-miracle

so russias society and economy is far more stable and people are happier because of this?

stefanovich

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its everything, increasing the size of the pie doesnt necessarily mean everyone's bit gets bigger, if you dont try share out those individual bits more, everyones securities become undermined, including the wealthy, the uk and the us are perfect examples of this

https://wid.world/country/russian-federation/

Look at income inequality since 2001 - stopped going up. Everyone gets more take home pay too. What you are saying is wrong.

stefanovich

Read this for more on Russia's taxation miracle. We'd all be much better off if we took this approach.

https://www.heritage.org/europe/commentary/russias-flat-tax-miracle

Wanderer78

stefanovich wrote: »

How much money you take in and what you spend it on are different things right?

If you increase your tax take and you have a good government then won't everyone benefit if it is used equitably?

its everything, increasing the size of the pie doesnt necessarily mean everyone's bit gets bigger, if you dont try share out those individual bits more, everyones securities become undermined, including the wealthy, the uk and the us are perfect examples of this

stefanovich

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...and im sure its worked wonders with reducing inequality within its borders....

How much money you take in and what you spend it on are different things right?

If you increase your tax take and you have a good government then won't everyone benefit if it is used equitably?

Wanderer78

stefanovich wrote: »

Ah - look at Russia. They INCREASED their tax take with flat taxation. Removes the incentive to move money out of the country and use loopholes.

...and im sure its worked wonders with reducing inequality within its borders....

stefanovich

Wanderer78 wrote: »

havent properly used this site yet, but...

https://wid.world/country/ireland/

flat taxes have been tried in other countries, they largely failed in trying to deal with rising inequality, those that could afford to avoid it, did, economist Michael Hudson has done work on this

Ah - look at Russia. They INCREASED their tax take with flat taxation. Removes the incentive to move money out of the country and use loopholes.