Natterjack from Kerry wrote: » Exactly. And everyone knows that. Bombs and bullets might be silenced, because the sought end is considered, at the moment, more likely to be achieved by other means. It does not mean that the mindset, the goal, and the acceptability of the violent route if that were considered more effective, have changed. It is in this regard, that republicanism has not fundamentally changed since the GFA. If anything, SF presenting itself as a normal political party is a more insidious deceit on the people on the island that was the overt violence. True maturity from SF, in the last 20 years, would have had it abandon all claims to a UI, and work within Northern Ireland, will all parties, for the betterment of the lives of all its 1.5M citizens. Abd closed up shop in the republic. But such a visionary move was beyond SF/IRA.
markodaly wrote: » I somewhat agree. It all ties back to the Rising and its myths that came out of it. Violence and its use of it is legitimised because of it. Untold damage was done to the island because of the rising. If we went down the democratic Home Rule path and not the "let's kill people for a political aim" path, the relationship between North and South, between Ireland and GB would be a lot different today. Yet, here we are still talking about all these decades if not 100 years later, and for what?
FrancieBrady wrote: » John Bruton stuff. Far enough.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » From the Torygraph, no less. With friends like this...
markodaly wrote: » Yea, easy to poke fun at it, but I think history has shown the past 100 years not kind to violent Irish Republicanism and all the went with it. Id rather boring John Bruton, then thousands of dead people. Others may just like the rush of blood of war and murder.
Natterjack from Kerry wrote: » I think when you have sold your soul to the devil and gone down the murderers route, mentally, there is no way to reverse that. Conceding you were wrong brings with it the clear baggage that you are therefore a despicable murder and a bad person. Thats very hard for any person to do. Still means the rest of us recognise them as the vile terrorists they are though.
FrancieBrady wrote: » A reduction but not because we changed the voting system to set up a sectarian bigoted state. You have been shown all the data and the reasons. It's your problem if you want to continue to lie. And it is others problem if they want to believe you.
downcow wrote: » You were much more strategic and effective than us. All the things we done supported the increase in the minority. We should have taken advice off you guys
jm08 wrote: » The Northern Ireland state was created as a Protestant state. Carson was begging for protestants to move to it so as to secure as much a majority as possible. Carson was born in Dublin - do you think he was forced to leave?
downcow wrote: » And what was the quote that led up to that about a catholic country for a catholic people ? Spin it any way you wish, you guys were much more effective at neutering the minority, don’t you think?
FrancieBrady wrote: » It's extraordinary that there are people who equate a UI to a takeover by the 'RA and the Shinners. Partitionist scaremongering isn't very high quality.
Natterjack from Kerry wrote: » I would concede that. Certainly the republic was much more sectarian in its true sense, structuring the country for one community exclusively. Which also had the effect of further alienating and distancing northern unionism.
FrancieBrady wrote: » We didn't change the voting system, gerrymander constituencies to ensure power stayed in the hands of religiously bigoted suprematists. We has Protestants all the way up through society and business, right up to president. Try again downcow
downcow wrote: » Francie. I have never denied that this was a unionist controlled state until the early 70s for the Benidorm of unionists. It’s not me who’s in denial. You continue to turn to the wealthy anglicans as evidence that the ordinary Presbyterians were not discriminated against. My father and all his 11 siblings left Donegal in the 50s and was very clear they had it hard in the catholic state and no real future for them.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Show the data downcow...because you were shown data before that completely rubbishes your nonsense.
[Deleted User] wrote: » fwiw.....that would be identical for most poor familes in the free state.....population dipped as low as 2.8 million in 1961 There was at independance 17 farms on a 3 mile strech of road near my dad homeplace and nearest bigger road.......theres 2 there now as people adbandoned them/emigrated/died off
downcow wrote: » You guys are in denial. If there was ever a UI this discriminatory history would be picked over in the same way the discrimination against Catholics in ni had been picked over. It would be part of getting special treatment for our poor discriminated people :-)
downcow wrote: » Here’s a few I just copied and pasted Ne Temere decree requiring the children of mixed religious marriages be brought up Roman Catholic • The Church of Ireland Gazette also remarks on the "forced exodus of large numbers" during the period of the early 1920s known as the Troubles.[2] • The Catholic ethos of the Free State.[7] • Symbols of British influence were seen as an integral part of the Protestant tradition during the interwar period between World War I and II, however the Free State's intent on removing them was viewed by southern Protestants as sectarian.[8] • The introduction of a "Gaelicisation" policy.[8][9] The compulsory teaching of the Irish language in schools saw some Protestant parents send their children to school in the United Kingdom.[8] It also meant that Irish was compulsory for roles in the civil service,[8][9] which resulted in "the continuing emigration of young Protestants in search of jobs", with the requirement seen as "disguised discrimination" by some.[8] However, there were other Protestants who were happy to embrace the Irish language, such as Douglas Hyde who was made the first President of the Republic of Ireland partly because of his efforts to revive the Irish language. • The influence of the Catholic Church on government policy, such as: the banning of divorce and contraception; censorship of films and books; and in the education system.[9] This reached its peak with the 1937 constitution giving the Catholic Church "special position" in the state.[9]
downcow wrote: » And what was the quote that led up to that about a catholic country for a catholic people ? Spin it any way you wish, youguys were much more effective at neutering the minority, don’t you think?
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