2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1

mcsean2163 wrote: »

https://m.herald.ie/news/high-fliers-shun-one-bed-flats-over-lack-of-work-space-40024803.html

So professional landlords leaving the market, nothing to see here....

I would believe they’re primarily either the investment funds or other investors who bought in past few years to rent out on AirBnB.

The regular BTL landlord who purchased a BTL as a pension will unlikely be selling as they have little alternative investments options.

They could sell, put the proceeds into government bonds and receive no return. They can invest the proceeds into the stock market and potentially lose both all their capital and any future dividend. A very very risky move if they’re over 50 years old IMO

The only BTL landlords who are selling who purchased their investment property as a pension are the ones being forced to sell by their bank or whoever purchased their boom time BTL mortgage.

The BTL landlord who is genuinely using it as a future pension has no real alternative investments to put any sales proceeds into in the real world.

Unless, of course, they want to risk losing everything by gambling the proceeds in the stock market IMO.

Villa05

PropQueries wrote:

I would believe theyâ€™re primarily either the investment funds or other investors who bought in past few years to rent out on AirBnB.

Was this behaviour common in Dublin
It seems odd that a government would give tax breaks to an investment fund that is involved in illegal activity

Villa05 wrote: »

Was this behaviour common in Dublin
It seems odd that a government would give tax breaks to an investment fund that is involved in illegal activity

No idea. But my line was "primarily either the investment funds or other investors who bought in past few years to rent out on AirBnB."

In other words, I meant the sellers are either probably primarily investment funds who purchased their units as part of their bulk buying activity over the past few years and were on the way out anyway or other new individual investors who may have purchased with AirBnB in mind.

But it was a grey area so I would be unsure how many investment funds used the properties they purchased as AirBnB's etc.

Would be interesting if the data was there and would explain an awful lot about the past 7 years.

Villa05 wrote: »

Was this behaviour common in Dublin
It seems odd that a government would give tax breaks to an investment fund that is involved in illegal activity

Airbnb is great. Far more cost effective accommodation, especially for families. It allows more people to take a holiday who may not be able to afford 1 or 2 hotel rooms for 5 nights. Long may it continue once travel restrictions are lifted.

Villa05

Hubertj wrote:

Airbnb is great. Far more cost effective accommodation, especially for families. It allows more people to take a holiday who may not be able to afford 1 or 2 hotel rooms for 5 nights. Long may it continue once travel restrictions are lifted.

Could student accomodation fill this niche, rather than residential property.
In general it is empty during peak family holiday time plus I believe there are 60k holiday houses and apartments throughout the country

Villa05 wrote: »

Could student accomodation fill this niche, rather than residential property.
In general it is empty during peak family holiday time plus I believe there are 60k holiday houses and apartments throughout the country

Don't AirBnB's require planning permission now? And, then they're classified as commercial premises.

It may be good for families visiting the city for a week, but it's definitely not good for families actually living in those same cities all year round.

I honestly don't see the difference between allowing me to open a kebab shop in my front garden without planning permission and someone changing their home into a B&B without planning permission.

Neither should be allowed IMO. At least my Kebab shop in my front garden might actually benefit the real economy i.e. jobs etc. AirBnB only benefits the owner of the property with very little benefit to the wider economy.

Once the state solves this homeless crisis, there will be more than enough B&B's, Hostels, Hotels and as you said, student accommodation units (they're already fighting to use their units as tourist accommodation during the Summer months) etc.to cater for any tourists who may wish to visit.

Will be interesting to see what side of the debate the state stands on once the pandemic passes IMO

PropQueries wrote: »

AirBnB only benefits the owner of the property with very little benefit to the wider economy.

tourists dont benefit the economy? and what homeless crisis?

Hubertj wrote: »

Airbnb is great. Far more cost effective accommodation, especially for families. It allows more people to take a holiday who may not be able to afford 1 or 2 hotel rooms for 5 nights. Long may it continue once travel restrictions are lifted.

Airbnb is nice until you realize the absolute **** show it causes for locals, although that's probably beyond the empathetic capabilities of some folks here.

My last stays were in Barcelona, Budapest and Paris and all 3 properties had anti-Airbnb stickers where we picked up the keys, going forward i'll fork out the few bob extra for a hotel.

Villa05 wrote: »

Could student accomodation fill this niche, rather than residential property.
In general it is empty during peak family holiday time plus I believe there are 60k holiday houses and apartments throughout the country

I’m sure it could if it is suitable. Probably depends on location etc too. Problem in Ireland was the populist move to require planning instead of actually regulating its operation. To be expected when dealing with politicians and public servants who are generally of below average intelligence.

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Airbnb is nice until you realize the absolute **** show it causes for locals, although that's probably beyond the empathetic capabilities of some folks here.

My last stays were in Barcelona, Budapest and Paris and all 3 properties had anti-Airbnb stickers where we picked up the keys, going forward i'll fork out the few bob extra for a hotel.

Even the economics don't make sense if the pre-covid number of AirBnB properties at c. 5,000 in Dublin were true.

We have DCC spending 10's of millions of euro each year on the homeless including booking out hotel rooms, hostels etc.

At the same time, they allowed c. 5,000 units to be rented out on AirBnB which is near enough the annual average additional supply of new build units in Dublin over the past number of years. Basically reversing the use of the respective properties i.e. hotels being used as residential and residential being used as hotels.

So, we had the state spending all this money on hotels etc. to house the homeless. On top of that, it created an accommodation supply shortage for workers which the state then had to spend even more money on HAP etc. to support.

AirBnB probably had a net negative impact on government revenues overall when you factor in all the money the state had to spend on the other side of the equation. Only beneficiary was the AirBnB property owner IMO.

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Airbnb is nice until you realize the absolute **** show it causes for locals, although that's probably beyond the empathetic capabilities of some folks here.

My last stays were in Barcelona, Budapest and Paris and all 3 properties had anti-Airbnb stickers where we picked up the keys, going forward i'll fork out the few bob extra for a hotel.

I’ve never experienced anything negative with Airbnb. Other countries were also guilty of not properly regulating its operation. We use hotels for 1-2 night stays but with 2 young kids that’s a challenge - interconnecting rooms etc not always available.

Hubertj wrote: »

I’ve never experienced anything negative with Airbnb. Other countries were also guilty of not properly regulating its operation. We use hotels for 1-2 night stays but with 2 young kids that’s a challenge - interconnecting rooms etc not always available.

Its not really about you though, from what i have observed and heard in cities it really makes life more difficult for locals of the area.

If you think you're own convenience is more important fair enough.

<SNIP>

SmokyMo

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Its not really about you though, from what i have observed and heard in cities it really makes life more difficult for locals of the area.

If you think you're own convenience is more important fair enough.

How many local businesses boomed because of inflow of tourists attracted by Airbnb accommodations? You viewing this through a narrow lens.

SmokyMo wrote: »

How many local businesses boomed because of inflow of tourists attracted by Airbnb accommodations? You viewing this through a narrow lens.

And how much has the state had to pay out in HAP to rural ireland landlords to allow the workers in these tourist areas to afford to live there?

There are plenty of B&Bs, hotels, etc. located throughout rural Ireland, but the state booked many of them out to house homeless, refugees etc.

I wouldn’t mind, but I’m not a AirBnB owner and this implicit subsidy comes from my taxes. The AirBnB owner gets all the profit and my subsidy to him results in less health, policing etc. services in my area.

SmokyMo wrote: »

How many local businesses boomed because of inflow of tourists attracted by Airbnb accommodations? You viewing this through a narrow lens.

Mental gymnastics

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Its not really about you though, from what i have observed and heard in cities it really makes life more difficult for locals of the area.

If you think you're own convenience is more important fair enough.

It’s not about convenience. If I want to go on holidays with my family and stay in a house or apartment on a short stay I will. It is not the fault of the general public that Airbnb etc was not properly regulated.

AIB tightens mortgage lending rules

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/aib-tightens-mortgage-lending-rules-1.4473060

Has nobody told them that everything is going to be alright, and that covid/brexit is only a blip and that they won't wont have an negative impact house prices soon???? Silly banks, not like they haven't seen the signs before and know what to look out for

Hubertj wrote: »

It’s not about convenience. If I want to go on holidays with my family and stay in a house or apartment on a short stay I will. It is not the fault of the general public that Airbnb etc was not properly regulated.

As is your right.....

Plan to convert 4,000 empty spaces above Dublin shops into housing

A plan to help convert more than 4,000 empty spaces above shops into housing will be included in the next Dublin city development.

Dublin City Council is currently drafting a new development plan for the city, which will cover what can be built, and where, between 2022 to 2028.

John O’Hara, senior city planner at Dublin City Council, said a policy to promote living above the shop will be included in the final draft of the development plan.

“As a result of the pandemic there will be a severe curtailment of retail activity in the city and possibly even office activity. But it's vital for us, for a capital city to keep vitality and energy in the city. At the moment that comes from largely retail and the office workers,” he told the Business Post.

Interesting movement regarding the possibility of decreased retail footfall

https://www.businesspost.ie/retail/plan-to-convert-4000-empty-spaces-above-dublin-shops-into-housing-dc726c15

Ex-Blanchardstown owner was under 'severe' liquidity pressure

https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/ex-blanchardstown-owner-was-under-severe-liquidity-pressure-40028976.html

Is it just me or is the house of cards beginning to shake?

I can only imagine what will happen the place when the Gov turn off the life support.............

Link pulls out of deal for Pepper’s Irish business

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/link-pulls-out-of-deal-for-peppers-irish-business-40035136.html

A big Ozzy firm has pulled out of buying a company who has bought bad debts in Ireland? I wonder why??? :rolleyes:

thefridge2006 wrote: »

Link pulls out of deal for Pepper’s Irish business

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/link-pulls-out-of-deal-for-peppers-irish-business-40035136.html

A big Ozzy firm has pulled out of buying a company who has bought bad debts in Ireland? I wonder why??? :rolleyes:

Probably best if read the article instead of quoting the incorrect headline.

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Its not really about you though, from what i have observed and heard in cities it really makes life more difficult for locals of the area.

If you think you're own convenience is more important fair enough.

So his anecdotes are not ok but yours are gospel ?

Cyrus wrote: »

So his anecdotes are not ok but yours are gospel ?

Actually my few Airbnb experiences were fantastic and all for a price to good to be true, but seeing anti-airbnb stickers along with "tourists go home" graffiti does cause oneself to have just a touch of introspection but hey maybe thats just me!

TheSheriff

thefridge2006 wrote: »

Link pulls out of deal for Pepper’s Irish business

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/link-pulls-out-of-deal-for-peppers-irish-business-40035136.html

A big Ozzy firm has pulled out of buying a company who has bought bad debts in Ireland? I wonder why??? :rolleyes:

Yawn.

Every so often these links are posted up with the "I wonder why they did that?" and a smug suggestion that the world is falling in.

You should read the article you posted.........

Cyrus wrote: »

Probably best if read the article instead of quoting the incorrect headline.

Link pulls out of deal for Pepper’s Irish business

Maybe you should read that again pal.... it is the correct headline...

Villa05

Hubertj wrote:

Itâ€™s not about convenience. If I want to go on holidays with my family and stay in a house or apartment on a short stay I will. It is not the fault of the general public that Airbnb etc was not properly regulated.

Air bnb can fexk off if we are setting up a quango to regulate it
The concept was simple when it started.
You have a spare bedroom you let it out on air bnb should you wish
The customer and supplier are responsible for their own actions, they know they are doing. Live with the outcomes.

It was never intended for whole residential units to be let out in this manner. If it is get revenue, councils to impose existing laws