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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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ELM327

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Looks like hydrogen might have gotten a lifeline

https://www.electrive.com/2021/02/02/fraunhofer-develops-hydrogen-storage-paste/

Very early days yet, might not see this in production for 10 years and it's cost effectiveness is unknown at this point

Has all the ingredients to be very useful though, could be the boost that hydrogen needs to become viable

Those fool cells will stay where they are. "The next big thing".
Has been since the 70's

It doesnt make sense.

zg3409

DrPhilG wrote: »

I have no clue re VAT but that sounds like typical dealer pressure. Maybe not, but I'm a cynical bugger.

The standard rate of VAT has reduced from 23% to 21%, effective from 1 September 2020 to 28 February 2021. This was announced on 23 July 2020

liamog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://electrek.co/2021/02/02/tesla-model-s-x-get-rid-lead-acid-12v-battery-moves-li-ion/

This is something that I'm happy about.

Porsche were selling non-lead acid batteries for their track cars at Porsche prices.
It is nice to see a Manufacturer finally getting rid of the lead acid battery.

Others will have to follow. It saves weight and space.

Nice to see Tesla copying Hyundai

[Deleted User]

https://electrek.co/2021/02/02/tesla-model-s-x-get-rid-lead-acid-12v-battery-moves-li-ion/

This is something that I'm happy about.

Porsche were selling non-lead acid batteries for their track cars at Porsche prices.
It is nice to see a Manufacturer finally getting rid of the lead acid battery.

Others will have to follow. It saves weight and space.

smellyoldboot

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Looks like hydrogen might have gotten a lifeline

https://www.electrive.com/2021/02/02/fraunhofer-develops-hydrogen-storage-paste/

Very early days yet, might not see this in production for 10 years and it's cost effectiveness is unknown at this point

Has all the ingredients to be very useful though, could be the boost that hydrogen needs to become viable

Hydrogen is pretty much the only real viable clean solution to ICE. The sooner the better because EVs will run out of growth space real soon when most people consider them briefly and realise they have nowhere to charge the things. PHEV is probably a more realistic , slightly cleaner stop gap technology until then.

the_amazing_raisin

Looks like hydrogen might have gotten a lifeline

https://www.electrive.com/2021/02/02/fraunhofer-develops-hydrogen-storage-paste/

Very early days yet, might not see this in production for 10 years and it's cost effectiveness is unknown at this point

Has all the ingredients to be very useful though, could be the boost that hydrogen needs to become viable

DermoMIO

DrPhilG wrote: »

I have no clue re VAT but that sounds like typical dealer pressure. Maybe not, but I'm a cynical bugger.

Oh I agree but said I’d see if anyone around here might’ve heard something.

MJohnston

DrPhilG wrote: »

I have no clue re VAT but that sounds like typical dealer pressure. Maybe not, but I'm a cynical bugger.

Maybe so but the dealer is factually correct. The government haven’t said anything about extending the VAT reduction, and it will automatically revert if they don’t

DrPhilG

DermoMIO wrote: »

Has there been any whispers on vat staying at 21% in the coming weeks ? I’m about to bite the bullet on a ID3 and one dealer is saying to me that vat increase will come into play if they have to order in one to my likings unfortunately.

I have no clue re VAT but that sounds like typical dealer pressure. Maybe not, but I'm a cynical bugger.

DermoMIO

Has there been any whispers on vat staying at 21% in the coming weeks ? I’m about to bite the bullet on a ID3 and one dealer is saying to me that vat increase will come into play if they have to order in one to my likings unfortunately.

liamog

kanuseeme wrote: »

Hard know what to do if you have a phev, charge it and your a miser saving 1 euro at the expensive of busy BEV drivers, don't charge it and its a scam.

Surprised myself to see BEVS (980) relegated to 5th position and diesel electric registrations (511) over half that of BEVs, 500 of the 511 are Kia sportage.

Show's how hybridisation is basically becoming a default for any non plug in car. I've been saying for a while that people should ignore hybrid's in decision making. It's not to say they shouldn't buy one, merely that whether a given car is a hybrid over a pure ICE is effectively a pointless distinction.

As to PHEV's, plug them all the time so long as it's not on a rapid. I'm a charge fast or go home kind of guy

kanuseeme

innrain wrote: »

I just had a glance at the sales figures for January. Quite disappointing overall but not surprising. I would think lots of people put of the idea of buying a new car now.
980 BEVs 3.89% market share compared with 891 units or 2.91% in 2020
Plugin hybrids have nearly doubled. Overall plug-in cars have 8.27% market share.
The best sold plug-in hybrid is KIA Xceed followed by its sister Niro but at the class type Jeep/SUV Prestige (H2) is the first.
Should this be worrying? Are this large SUVs going to be plugged in or is just a tax scheme?

Hard know what to do if you have a phev, charge it and your a miser saving 1 euro at the expensive of busy BEV drivers, don't charge it and its a scam.

Surprised myself to see BEVS (980) relegated to 5th position and diesel electric registrations (511) over half that of BEVs, 500 of the 511 are Kia sportage.

Busman Paddy Lasty

Fuel is already taxed heavily. They want VRT and motor tax on top. Revenue/Gov couldn't give a fiddlers about CO2 or local air quality.

AndyBoBandy

With more and more PHEV's becoming available, now would be a really good time to add the motor tax to the fuel used, and not the duration & car the tax should be valid with!!!

Someone in a 5 year old 320d might drive 60,000km in 1 year, and pay what? €190 in motor tax?
meanwhile me in my 2006 320d, who's driven it around 400km in the last 10 months, pays €710 motor tax for the same year!!

Find a fair equation to transfer it from the car to the fuel consumed so as to ensure no loss of revenue, and then let it go from there...

Then people can PHEV it up all they like!!

the_amazing_raisin

innrain wrote: »

Should this be worrying? Are this large SUVs going to be plugged in or is just a tax scheme?

Look at the road tax and VRT versus the equivalent ICE version and you'll have your answer

I suspect there's some tax avoidance going on

innrain

I just had a glance at the sales figures for January. Quite disappointing overall but not surprising. I would think lots of people put of the idea of buying a new car now.
980 BEVs 3.89% market share compared with 891 units or 2.91% in 2020
Plugin hybrids have nearly doubled. Overall plug-in cars have 8.27% market share.
The best sold plug-in hybrid is KIA Xceed followed by its sister Niro but at the class type Jeep/SUV Prestige (H2) is the first.
Should this be worrying? Are this large SUVs going to be plugged in or is just a tax scheme?

AndyBoBandy

Black_Knight wrote: »

Sorry Garda! Battery is cold, just warming it up

.... so I can spend 5 minutes less at the charger..

Black_Knight

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Ah you see the ID.4 is designed for the autobahn, you need to drive at 120 to avoid cold gating.

Slow drivers will be punished with slow charging

Hopefully I'll have mine in time for NEXT winter, so I'll keep ye posted on how the charging speed goes

Sorry Garda! Battery is cold, just warming it up

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

Moreso the coldgating id4 after a 90km/hr run.

Ah you see the ID.4 is designed for the autobahn, you need to drive at 120 to avoid cold gating.

Slow drivers will be punished with slow charging

Hopefully I'll have mine in time for NEXT winter, so I'll keep ye posted on how the charging speed goes

Black_Knight

KCross wrote: »

Are you basing it off Bjorn's Norweigan test at -25°C!

The ID cars have battery heating hardware included, its just the software isnt properly utilising it yet.

There is a software update coming that is supposed to address some battery heating stuff in the ID cars so we need to see how the tests fair out once thats applied... unfortunately we will be rolling into the summer by then so it could be next winter before we really find out.

Moreso the coldgating id4 after a 90km/hr run.

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

I agree with you, the space that small cars fill with approx 30kWh is a really good niche. It's the family hatchbacks where I think we're close but have one more round of battery increases before we see a wholesale move to primary car as an EV. It's a real shame as I think most people's needs are covered. If the winter range (and charging ability) of the ID.3 58kWh was its current summer range I'd be recommending them without caveats.

I feel like the E-Up and it's clones are the best balance of battery size and car size for a city car. For something like car sharing you have to account for the possibility that the car isn't going to get much of a charge between uses.

Something like the 35kWh battery the E-Up has meant it can get almost a full days use before needing to charge, especially given how efficient the car is

The battery is also big enough that you can take it on longer journeys if needed. It's far from ideal but if it's a once or twice a year occasion then it's fine.

So to me, that's where the bar is set for electric city cars. If they can concentrate on bringing the price down to the same as the petrol Up then it'll be perfect

AndyBoBandy

liamog wrote: »

I agree with you, the space that small cars fill with approx 30kWh is a really good niche. It's the family hatchbacks where I think we're close but have one more round of battery increases before we see a wholesale move to primary car as an EV. It's a real shame as I think most people's needs are covered. If the winter range (and charging ability) of the ID.3 58kWh was its current summer range I'd be recommending them without caveats.

If the Honda-e wasn’t so expensive, they’d sell here by the ship load....

liamog

unkel wrote: »

Yes, we are in a small minority here, McGiver, but I also believe there is no reason why a cheap city car in future should have a 60kWh battery. 20-30kwh is plenty, these cars rarely do big trips and if they do, they need to stop once or twice for 10 minutes. That's perfectly acceptable if that would make their car cost €15k instead of €20k

I agree with you, the space that small cars fill with approx 30kWh is a really good niche. It's the family hatchbacks where I think we're close but have one more round of battery increases before we see a wholesale move to primary car as an EV. It's a real shame as I think most people's needs are covered. If the winter range (and charging ability) of the ID.3 58kWh was its current summer range I'd be recommending them without caveats.

[Deleted User]

Kramer wrote: »

The way the world is going, that could become a reasonable possibility in the near future .

In reality, more and more don't own the cars they drive these days, company cars, cars on HP/PCP make up the vast majority of vehicles less than three years old.
Most cars under 6 years old are under some sort of finance, so technically not owned by the "keeper".

We own our cars, mine is 14 years old and the misuses is 16 years

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

From my cold dead hands will they pull my private car ownership.

The way the world is going, that could become a reasonable possibility in the near future

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Personally I won't give up private transportation until there is a solution for mobile personal storage

Silent Running wrote: »

When I lived in Dublin I probably could have given up car ownership, but didn't want to.

Now I live in rural Ireland, there's no way in hell that I could get by without owning a car.

From my cold dead hands will they pull my private car ownership.

[Deleted User]

McGiver wrote: »

Yeah of course, we the innovators (not really early adopters yet), agree. We are OK to wait 15-30 minutes with kids for loo, coffee etc. General population - not much so, they're impatient.

I tried to explain this to many people, to show that EVs are very well doable in today's Ireland, that you should/need to take a break anyway and the car can charge, but generally it's not getting a positive response.

Now, saying that was talking about the ID3 with one fella from Donegal and he asked me - can the ID3 get from Donegal to Galway City and back on one charge? It's a route he would be doing weekly or twice a month. It's 400 km round trip. You could maybe do it in summer, can't do it most of the year and needs 45 min stop for charging at 50 kW DC somewhere along the way. If there was a DC 100+ kW capable charger somewhere on the route then you could cut it to 25 minutes. I think it's still more than most people are willing to accept - people are impatient and always in a hurry.

Obviously, we know that no one is (or should be) undertaking any such journey without any sort of a break, and you could of course charge 11 kW AC for few hours while the car sits idle! But let's assume it's a roundtrip with minimum break, and then you see the issue is the infrastructure on all primary motorway and national roads - it doesn't exist in most of the country. Ionity is simply not enough as it stands - you would need at least 10 more hubs like these to make any sort of journeys possible and you'd still need to wait 20-ish minutes to charge on 100 kW+ DC.

So yeah, fast charging is really needed - Tesla know it that's why they've been doing what they've been doing.

You need to charge like a petrol does. Refuel in 5 minutes, then move so someone else can. Even motorway services now sometimes have waiting. Imagine if every refuel was 30 minutes what the line waiting would be

Silent Running

ELM327 wrote: »

Private car ownership being removed is a step backwards. Consumers want convenience and despite go car being here for years, the shift has not happened. It won't happen as nothing beats the convenience of owning your own car.

When I lived in Dublin I probably could have given up car ownership, but didn't want to.

Now I live in rural Ireland, there's no way in hell that I could get by without owning a car.

liamog

Personally I won't give up private transportation until there is a solution for mobile personal storage

ELM327

Private car ownership being removed is a step backwards. Consumers want convenience and despite go car being here for years, the shift has not happened. It won't happen as nothing beats the convenience of owning your own car.