tritium wrote: » Would you like to adjust for the part paid for by the clubs themselves?
mitchelsontour wrote: » Between 2007 and 2018, Dublin received almost €18m in coaching/game development grants directly from Croke Park. Cork are second with €1.4m, with Derry (€1.3m), Meath (€1.1m), Kildare, Laois, Antrim, Wicklow, Wexford and Offaly taking in just over €1m in that time period.https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0614/1055359-dublin-funding/ Cannot give a direct answer to your question but the above would probably explain the disparity.
tritium wrote: » Except your argument is supported by untruths Almost every club in dublin got a professional coach - DISPROVED the GAA funded the coaches for dublin entirely -DISPROVED Counties only get a piddling GD allowance and nothing else - DISPROVED dublin funding was the source of their success as far back as 2003 - DISPROVED No other county can generate significant commercial revenue - DISPROVED the GAA was equitable and fair financially prior to this dublin team - DISPROVED We could go on- you’ve basically shot yourself in the foot repeatedly with your hyperbole. You’ve deliberately been selective to try to paint as bleak a picture as you could. Unfortunately others can also access the information and it’s pretty easy to poke huge holes in the claims you’ve made
Enquiring wrote: » The Dublin GAA website lists far fewer clubs:https://www.dublingaa.ie/clubs
tritium wrote: » We did this part of the conversation a few pages back, go have a look. Talking about the direct county allocations wrt games development ignores a huge amount of additional funds and how they’re used. It’s basically a tabloid headline and not much else.
tritium wrote: » Except your argument is supported by untruths Almost every club in dublin got a professional coach - DISPROVED - You need to go through the list of clubs again. Nearly all clubs have access to a professional coach, especially in divisions 1-4. the GAA funded the coaches for dublin entirely -DISPROVED I never claimed that. Counties only get a piddling GD allowance and nothing else - DISPROVED I never claimed that. dublin funding was the source of their success as far back as 2003 - DISPROVED The development funding has led to 100 titles across Dublin GAA and it was 2002 when it started, this claim has been proved. No other county can generate significant commercial revenue - DISPROVED I never claimed that the GAA was equitable and fair financially prior to this dublin team - DISPROVED Have you provided any proof to the contrary? We could go on- you’ve basically shot yourself in the foot repeatedly with your hyperbole. You’ve deliberately been selective to try to paint as bleak a picture as you could. Unfortunately others can also access the information and it’s pretty easy to poke huge holes in the claims you’ve made
ArielAtom wrote: » This response to you is from someone who posted in the feedback thread about untruths!!! You couldn't make it up. In horse racing terms they would be referred to as a stayer. Interestingly it appears the Rugby forum had to put up with a similar level of whabaoutery in the past.
mitchelsontour wrote: » Disparity to that level surely must have some influence? Yes /No
tritium wrote: » Some influence due to disparity sure. But not really measurable when there’s a piece of funding in that dublin allocation that is funded on a provincial basis to everyone else for just one example. It’s basically apples and oranges. To be clear I’m happy to acknowledge dublin benefitted from funding, as well as a lot of clever people who made the most of it. I just dispute if it’s at the level some posters on here want to paint. I also dispute the idea that other counties couldn’t use many aspects of the dublin approach to help themselves, or indeed that they couldn’t have been doing it over the past decade or so
Enquiring wrote: » Dublin receive funding from their provincial council. You know this. The provincial funding for other counties leaves them with between 1 and 6 coaches. You know this. Dublin have far more coaches, nearly one per club, you know this. This was a Dublin only scheme. You know this. It has led to increased income for Dublin GAA. You know this. Dublin GAA now spend close to 4 million per year on games development. You know this. It's game, set and match here. You know the impact the money and coaches have had on Dublin GAA. 100 titles post funding. You can't bring yourself to admit it, that's your choice.
tritium wrote: » Dublin have nowhere near one coach per club, you know this Half of the coaches are in effect funded by the clubs themselves you know this too
Strumms wrote: » So should Dublin play at Parnell park maybe.....capacity 13,500 vs 80,000. When opposition fans get all excited about that, they sure won’t be excited when they try get a ticket, and can’t. Dublin should build their own 60 thousand plus home ground ? Who pays for it ? You’d have the same dribblers then complaining if the Dubs were given funding to do that... so damned if they do, damned if the don’t... ultimately too...That would mean about 7 or 8 games tops in Croker a year, a proper white elephant.
maestroamado wrote: » If Dublin want to build 60k stadium surely the GAA will fund it on their own. This mistake was made by Government years ago. The only good idea "Drumcondra Bertie" ever had was the National Stadium in West Dublin. The GAA influence were allowed scupered this idea which for me was a big error. Croke Park is unsustainable without concerts etc whic i have absolutely no problem with but it is just in the wrong place. When vested interest have big influence in decisions ie will neever be right. Dublin indeed do need a 40/50K capicity venue but there should be a National Stadium for bigger events for all national sports. If it ever happens Croke park can be a wild-life santury.
Dick Turnip wrote: » You think Croke Park is in the wrong location being in Drumcondra, but would be right if it was in Blanchardstown? What games would a national stadium serve Croke Park & the Aviva don't?
ArielAtom wrote: » https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40214039.html Here’s the take from the Leinster Council chair on the idea of splitting Dublin. Great article and he makes so many good points.
maestroamado wrote: » I know its in the wrong place for what it is being used for. It would have being perfect for Dublin County location. I think our proposed National Stadium was to be around Liiffey Valley, personally i would prefer abit farther out. We should have one as i cannot think of a Country in EU that has not got one. Our National Stadium is on SCR, not sure who uses it now.
flasher0030 wrote: » What good points does he raise. He mentions that Dublin have advantages in terms of population and in terms of the finance they can raise. And basically it's up to the chasing pack to raise their game. He doesn't mention the millions that Dublin received all those years ago to get them going on that success ladder. Money that is not provided to the other counties. I don't see any substance in his comments.
ArielAtom wrote: » Exactly, Dublin have always had the population advantage, that nothing new, they were always able to attract good sponsors that is nothing new, and he recognises that the chasing pack have a bit of work to do.
flasher0030 wrote: » But he's not recognising the key point - that the chasing pack are not getting the financial support that Dublin received which allowed Dublin to kick-start into winning ways. It's a bit dismissive of them to just lecture them that they need to perform better, and get over the fact that Dublin got preferential treatment and they are not getting that. Anyway, my point is that his comments don't provide any substance or insight into the problem. Just the old-fashioned "get over it" and bury the head in the sand.
ArielAtom wrote: » https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/donegal-appoint-former-footballer-of-the-year-karl-lacey-as-head-of-academy-development-40012374.html I’m assuming this is a voluntary role, as there is no funding anywhere else but Dublin.
Enquiring wrote: » Recently, we've had the president of the GAA at the time of giving Dublin extra funding and the Leinster council chairman of the time expressing worry over what has resulted from the decisions they participated in. The latest Leinster council chairman should take note before it's too late! As this thread has documented and as we know, the plan drawn up and funded by the GAA and taxpayers has transformed Dublin GAA. When you look at the system in closer detail, you can see why. The influx of coaches aimed to increase playing numbers for the clubs they were hired for by going to primary and secondary schools within their area, improve the standards within the clubs through coaching themselves, coaching other coaches, having elite academies etc. The registered playing numbers for clubs in Dublin were 30,000 and under for 8-18 year olds. Dublin were granted 1.5 million and above every year to develop this age group. Within this Dublin only scheme, clubs paid half the wages of coaches so every year close to 3 million was being spent on developing talent. This granted nearly every club in Dublin access to a coach. Especially in the top divisions. The coach took direction from within the club and targeted areas identified by their employers. While this was ongoing, most other counties had 3-4 coaches trying to get around to as many areas as possible within their county. The advantages of the Dublin only scheme compared with the rest of Ireland is obvious. What also is obvious is that this imbalance in funding and coaches leads to an imbalance when it comes to competition. Dublin GAA don't compete on a level playing field in any competition entered across grades and codes. We know that Dublin have won around 100 titles post funding and have increased sponsorship and income off the back of it. Dublin GAA now spend close to 4 million per year on player development so any thoughts that this will end would appear to be well off the mark. The original decision to overfund Dublin has snowballed and created a professional outfit operating in an amateur sport. Only games development funding has been looked at in this post, millions spent on team preparations, salaries, expenses etc come after this. Splitting Dublin is the only option we have.
Festive Life wrote: » If the development officers were not going into a lot of these schools in Dublin would the kids be playing/training hurling/football in school much? No probably/possibly not. That isnt the case in many other areas in the country where kids will be hurling/playing gaelic on far more regular basis. Dublin under-achieved for years considering all their advantages. Theyre now maybe over achieving but that will settle down in years to come. Many clubs nationwide dont necessarily need a full time coach to be going into schools when you have far more involvement from the clubs, teachers, local clubs doing work with schools already. Up to counties nationwide to look or start doing it themselves in terms of paying development officers with clubs paying half. Dont say this is only a dublin thing as the counties have it in their power to do it themselves if they really want to.
blanch152 wrote: » I think the bit in bold is key. That finance was received all those years ago, and the current financing arrangements are much more balanced. Things have been fixed, time for the others to raise their game, as the Leinster Council chairman implies.
Enquiring wrote: » The coaches go to schools for player recruitment and coaching but their main role is within the club they're hired by. Developing talent within the club, coaching other coaches etc is their main duty. They also develop elite talent, organise camps etc. Their influence is huge. Every club would love to have someone like this on board. It would be of enormous benefit. You want it ignored but the fact that this was only available for Dublin clubs is the major issue. Why wasn't it made available across the country? Why was the finance ring fenced for Dublin? Most clubs can't afford these coaches. Even with the enormous wealth in Dublin, they are still claiming the money to pay for half the coaches wages. The huge impact the professional coaches have made to standards in Dublin is obvious and has been admitted to by high level employees of Dublin GAA. It has been ongoing since 2002, every other county have had to operate with limited resources while Dublin had access to their own special fund. It should never have happened to begin with and the realisation that it has to be stopped is dawning on many.
