The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

McMurphy wrote: »

"Close the border" would be as practical as emptying s swimming pool with a sieve, it isn't possible in reality.

However - what's getting lost in your "I don't like Mary Lou" rants, is it's not a shinner exclusive proposal.

But so long as you get your laughs squirrel, that's what is important after all.

But you just said it should be possible if the PSNI and garda work together there earlier?

blanch152 wrote: »

Here is Tommie Gorman on the issue

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2021/0124/1191778-tommie-gorman/

"GDPR issues – who would get that information, how might it be used, might there be legal implications – are the main reasons why Dublin has so far refused to share that information with Belfast."

I pointed this out days ago but unfortunately some here don't want to either listen or understand these concerns. However, they are not insurmountable concerns and can be overcome by a two-island approach with relevant protocols in place but no doubt Mary-Lou will dismiss that suggestion.

How does the two island approach protect us from Britain?

Bishop of hope wrote: »

But you just said it should be possible if the PSNI and garda work together there earlier?

Closing the border is not the same thing as policing the border. I can tell you anecdotally that there is little to zero policing going on here.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Closing the border is not the same thing as policing the border. I can tell you anecdotally that there is little to zero policing going on here.

Why?

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Why?

You tell me. I don't know why, when there are restrictions in place.

blanch152 wrote: »

Here is Tommie Gorman on the issue

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2021/0124/1191778-tommie-gorman/

"GDPR issues – who would get that information, how might it be used, might there be legal implications – are the main reasons why Dublin has so far refused to share that information with Belfast."

I pointed this out days ago but unfortunately some here don't want to either listen or understand these concerns. However, they are not insurmountable concerns and can be overcome by a two-island approach with relevant protocols in place but no doubt Mary-Lou will dismiss that suggestion.

As was pointed out to you on the other in the other thread, the GDPR issue is a complete and utter red herring, you know this.

Data protection law after 31 December 2020: will the GDPR apply in the UK after Brexit?
Although the EU GDPR itself no longer applies to UK residents’ personal data, UK organisations must still comply with its requirements after this point.

First, the DPA 2018 already enacts the EU GDPR’s requirements in UK law.

Second, the DPPEC (Data Protection, Privacy and Electronic Communications (Amendments etc) (EU Exit)) Regulations 2019 amends the DPA 2018 and merges it with the requirements of the EU GDPR to form a data protection regime that works in a UK context after Brexit alongside the DPA 2018.

This new regime is known as ‘the UK GDPR’.

There is very little material difference between the EU GDPR and the UK GDPR, so organisations that process personal data should continue to comply with the EU GDPR’s requirements.

Learn more about complying with the DPA 2018 and UK GDPR

The EU GDPR’s requirements as implemented by Parts 3 and 4 of the DPA 2018 continue to apply for law enforcement and intelligence purposes.

Third, any UK organisation that offers goods or services to, or monitors the behaviour of, EU residents will have to comply with the EU GDPR, and will have to make some changes to their data processing activities.

TLDR?

Both Tommy and yourself are peddling nonsense on the issue.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

But you just said it should be possible if the PSNI and garda work together there earlier?

Where did I say that?

I'll just save you time and effort looking for something that doesn't exist.

I didn't.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You tell me. I don't know why, when there are restrictions in place.

So the problem is policing?
People are breaking the restrictions is that it.
I can't see your point in any of that statement.

McMurphy wrote: »

Where did I say that?

I'll just save you time and effort looking for something that doesn't exist.

I didn't.

Sorry Mc it was Fann Linn implied it, my mistake.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

So the problem is policing?
People are breaking the restrictions is that it.
I can't see your point in any of that statement.

The problem is they aren't or can't police it and there are people proposing closing it completely.
It's about the committment to protect the people and posturing.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The problem is they aren't or can't police it and there are people proposing closing it completely.
It's about the committment to protect the people and posturing.

It's about utter posturing from SF.
Our govt has no control over movements into or out of NI by land or sea other than to beg for it.
The only border that we can control from NI is the roads one.
So if that can't be controlled we are still up **** creek.
Sinn féin have a responsibility as a power sharing partner in NI to make the necessary arrangements to secure that part of the island, not FF/G/Gs.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How does the two island approach protect us from Britain?

How does an all-island approach protect us from Belfast?
How does closing the border protect us from Dublin?
How does an all-Mayo approach protect us from Belmullet?

It comes down to what is practical and achievable. Closing the border isn't practical because the activities of good republicans over decades show that it is porous. An all-island approach isn't practical because the Stormont government parties are incapable of delivering it. A two-island approach may work, but it needs further exploration.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It's about utter posturing from SF.
Our govt has no control over movements into or out of NI by land or sea other than to beg for it.
The only border that we can control from NI is the roads one.
So if that can't be controlled we are still up **** creek.
Sinn féin have a responsibility as a power sharing partner in NI to make the necessary arrangements to secure that part of the island, not FF/G/Gs.

So just give up, is it?

We have a role in NI under the GFA, we have a (seems to be only lipservice) stated committment to those who are Irish. Was all great and rosy when it was Brexit (because it threatened us) but has been completely absent on Covid.
SF have done what they can (proposed and voted for measures that would see an All island approach) and have not recieved a word of support from the Irish government.
Meanwhile people are talking about closing the border as some sort of challenge to republicans when we haven't the resources or the will to even police it and the restrictions around 5k travel limits and leaving your county. That has been evident throughout the crisis.

a very cool kid

Ireland cannot enforce quarantine here without all of the UK doing the same. It's a common travel zone, same rules have to apply across the board.

It's not fair in my opinion to ask a British resident/citizen person to quarantine coming from the UK to another part of the UK. So any flights from Manchester/London to Belfast/Derry are a free for all. People should obviously travel only essentially.

If you're keeping the border open, which we should, then these people have free reign to come into ROI. Therefore it makes no sense to quarantine from UK to ROI either.

If you're coming here from somewhere outside Europe you're likely linking through London (for example all the Brazillians). If we're quarantining people, where do you do the quarantine, is it in Ireland or the UK? How do we know someone is in Ireland after a quarantine in that case?

Is the answer here that the quarantine happens at point of entry to the CTA (i.e. if you arrive in Dublin to go on to Edinburgh, you quarantine in Dublin?) ? And the governments work out the cost of hotels etc between themselves?

I think if you're realistic, you need to count the whole of the UK as part of the CTA and not try to conflate the COVID issue with a UI

Deleted User wrote: »

your aware people arent allowed leave their counties?

Its ludicrious,im not allowed travel as far as youghal or new ross,or cross the bridge in carrick on suir

,but people from antrim can go to donegal/sligo to holiday homes....and gaurds wont turn em.back.....same bolixiolgy with last summer letting campervan after campervan leave rosslare and no effort to stop them,

Theres no point in lockdown,if we just going to let it back in.....this being our 3rd lockdown...you'd imagine ffg would have learned from their failures so far

The problem there isn't the gardai or the Irish government, it is the DUP/SF government and PSNI who are failing to enforce their own rules if people from Antrim are going to Donegal/Sligo.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/coronavirus-covid-19-regulations-guidance-what-restrictions-mean-you

a very cool kid wrote: »

Ireland cannot enforce quarantine here without all of the UK doing the same. It's a common travel zone, same rules have to apply across the board.

It's not fair in my opinion to ask a British resident/citizen person to quarantine coming from the UK to another part of the UK. So any flights from Manchester/London to Belfast/Derry are a free for all. People should obviously travel only essentially.

If you're keeping the border open, which we should, then these people have free reign to come into ROI. Therefore it makes no sense to quarantine from UK to ROI either.

If you're coming here from somewhere outside Europe you're likely linking through London (for example all the Brazillians). If we're quarantining people, where do you do the quarantine, is it in Ireland or the UK? How do we know someone is in Ireland after a quarantine in that case?

Is the answer here that the quarantine happens at point of entry to the CTA (i.e. if you arrive in Dublin to go on to Edinburgh, you quarantine in Dublin?) ? And the governments work out the cost of hotels etc between themselves?

I think if you're realistic, you need to count the whole of the UK as part of the CTA and not try to conflate the COVID issue with a UI

...and after a year all that is only in an 'embryonic stage'. Awful, lazy and chaotic government and nothing to do with a UI but everything to do with cowardice and political gameplaying with people's lives.

Deleted User wrote: »

Gaurds can turn someone from dublin back outside tramore,did several times last year

Gaurds cannot turn someone from antrim back at sligo.....nor can they turn campervans back at rosslare.....

This is fcuking ludicrious,this caused the success of the 1st lockdown to be rolled back.......why are ffg so inept,that 6 months on,they still havnt enacted powers for this??

We are the threat to the north now. There is as much movement north from here as vice versa.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are the threat to the north now. There is as much movement north from here as vice versa.

They'll probably close the border.

Deleted User wrote: »

Gaurds can turn someone from dublin back outside tramore,did several times last year

Gaurds cannot turn someone from antrim back at sligo.....nor can they turn campervans back at rosslare.....

This is fcuking ludicrious,this caused the success of the 1st lockdown to be rolled back.......why are ffg so inept,that 6 months on,they still havnt enacted powers for this??

Will we have another summer of campervans flooding into tramore,ardmore,youghal,dungarvan all yellow reg,while we arent allowed 20km from home??

Have there been preparations for forced quaramtines for campervans at rosslare been made yet??,summer will soon be about again

Will ffg do as always,wait for a problem to arise,in place of proactive measures....no wonder this government is always in crisis mode...FFS

That is not the government's fault, the Sinn Fein/DUP government should have ensured that they never got that far. We should complain to Stormont.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

They'll probably close the border.

Martin catergorically ruled that out, so you can forget it.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are the threat to the north now. There is as much movement north from here as vice versa.

Death rates and infection rates in the North since the start of the crisis have been much higher than in the South, meaning the threat is from the North and the lax policies applied there.

Deleted User wrote: »

ireland literally had highest infection rate in world earlier this month :pac:

But facts dont matter,i guess

Ireland for a very brief period of time had the highest infection rate in the world, as the UK variant established itself here, thanks to the open border with the North. Thankfully, that high rate has abated, and we are once again below Northern Ireland and the UK as well as many other Northern European countries.

[Deleted User]

blanch152 wrote: »

Ireland for a very brief period of time had the highest infection rate in the world, as the UK variant established itself here, thanks to the open border with the North. Thankfully, that high rate has abated, and we are once again below Northern Ireland and the UK as well as many other Northern European countries.

So...your saying you lied,when claimed the norths infection rate has always been higher

What else have you lied about?

blanch152 wrote: »

Ireland for a very brief period of time had the highest infection rate in the world,

"A brief period of time" ≠ "A little bit pregnant"

as the UK variant established itself here, thanks to the open border with the North. Thankfully, that high rate has abated, and we are once again below Northern Ireland and the UK as well as many other Northern European countries.

It wasn't the daily flights directly into Dublin from UK so?

Great, that's that all cleared up so.

Do you have a source to back that up?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, let me explain this to you simply.

Councils employ tradespeople including plumbers, electricians etc. They have permanent jobs and excellent rates of pay. They also have Union agreements that they can’t be undercut by contracting out.

These are facts, you can’t walk away from them. As a Journal article says, these facts mean that it is not possible to say whether Councils can build houses cheaper than developers, and it may cost more.

They are inconvenient facts to your mantra of Councils building houses. Sorry to burst that bubble.

As I have explained, a council I knew very well has no tradespeople hired to simply carry out their trade. They are housing inspectors who hold trades. As I said, they will occasionally carry out minor jobs, however the council will contract out to plumbers etc. more often than not. The council I know has a few inspectors and an admin chap in the depot and that's it.

Can you back up the section I put in bold about not undercutting?

That's your claim. Not mine. Building is cheaper this has been shown to you repeatedly.
You seem to be under the mistaken impression if the state/LA's built houses they would need use their own staff. I have not said such. They would put out a tender for any such work.
You are creating imaginary road blocks to back up defending the 25 year leasing of luxury D4 apartments and the like.

Deleted User wrote: »

afaik.....free state between xmas and new year,had more of the uk varient (B117) than NI......it began in the south east england...maybe its time to refer to it,as the english varient

Its upto 62% of cases here now.....

(being i think 8% around xmas to new years week,a rather fasicating,if macabre example of the theory of evolution in action)

Posters shouldn't be allowed to peddle unsubstantiated BS as if it's fact.

Almost a full weekend here I seen folk peddle a lie about Frances Fitzgerald being "exonerated for misleading the Dail" - BS

The GDPR invented issue, is just that, invented and spurious, reasons being explained complete with various sources, and they're still peddling it.

Now we have a claim the UK strain entered here from the north. Anything to back it up? Nope, nada, not a thing.

It really is dishonest and immature and borders on outright propaganda tbh.

a very cool kid

[Deleted User] wrote: »

your aware people arent allowed leave their counties?

Its ludicrious,im not allowed travel as far as youghal or new ross,or cross the bridge in carrick on suir

,but people from antrim can go to donegal/sligo to holiday homes....and gaurds wont turn em.back.....same bolixiolgy with last summer letting campervan after campervan leave rosslare and no effort to stop them,

Theres no point in lockdown,if we just going to let it back in.....this being our 3rd lockdown...you'd imagine ffg would have learned from their failures so far

This is whataboutery - if you go from Cork to Dublin for essential purposes you don't need to quarantine. Why would it be any different for a British person going from one part of the UK to another (e.g. a doctor from Liverpool to Belfast)?