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Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

[Deleted User]

Is there another way of looking at it?
It’s still very, very divided, and actually seems to be getting more polarized over the last five years. It’s economy is woeful, very heavily dependent on the public sector.
Unionists are making plans to celebrate its centenary, but there seems to be very little to be happy with, certainly far less than the Republic or the rest of the UK.
No point in arguing about a border poll on this thread, but is there any possible way of looking at NI as a social, political and economic failure?

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[Deleted User]

tom1ie wrote: »

What haven’t I answered. I am all for a unified Ireland if someone can show me how we pay for it.

It's hard to show you when your grasp of economics ends with '£5b cost bad.'

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

How long will it take to get that 5bill yearly cost down?
What is our track record like in reducing civil service jobs in our own area?
If we reduce civil service jobs in the north what does these people do then if there are not enough private sector jobs available? Go on the dole? Who pays for that?

Can someone answer this and answer it properly. If not I’ll presume your all talking bollox and haven’t really thought this through.

[Deleted User]

tom1ie wrote: »

What?

If English is your first language you'll understand you just called yourself cracked. I thought it self aware and insightful.

tom1ie

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You do.

We're gonna take all of your money.

Is that a serious answer yeah? Is that the sum of your argument?

tom1ie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are just gliding past the answers and keep asking the question.

What haven’t I answered. I am all for a unified Ireland if someone can show me how we pay for it.

tom1ie

BonnieSituation wrote: »

:rolleyes:

? Please. Explain it to me instead of making faces. You seem to know it all. Your clearly an economist with a well thought out plan so lay it out there.

FrancieBrady

tom1ie wrote: »

No.
They have common sense.
Explain to me who pays the 5 billion yearly recurring charge?

You are just gliding past the answers and keep asking the question.

BonnieSituation

tom1ie wrote: »

How long will it take to get that 5bill yearly cost down?
What is our track record like in reducing civil service jobs in our own area?
If we reduce civil service jobs in the north what does these people do then if there are not enough private sector jobs available? Go on the dole? Who pays for that?

You do.

We're gonna take all of your money.

tom1ie

maccored wrote: »

the people who come up with the excuses of how it wont work, basically just dont want it to work.

No.
They have common sense.
Explain to me who pays the 5 billion yearly recurring charge?

BonnieSituation

maccored wrote: »

the people who come up with the excuses of how it wont work, basically just dont want it to work.

We spend more time in these threads chasing the obfuscation that we never end up talking about anything.

So it seems they're doing their job.

BonnieSituation

tom1ie wrote: »

Explain it to me then. I’m obviously not seeing something you see so I’d appreciate if you could tell me how we afford this.

:rolleyes:

tom1ie

Beltby wrote: »

5 billion now. A lot less once reforms are introduced. Do you think the North will have 30% of its workforce working in the public sector forever, for example, in the event of a UI?

How long will it take to get that 5bill yearly cost down?
What is our track record like in reducing civil service jobs in our own area?
If we reduce civil service jobs in the north what does these people do then if there are not enough private sector jobs available? Go on the dole? Who pays for that?

maccored

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Yes. Everything is set and stone and Nothing can change ever. That's how it works.

the people who come up with the excuses of how it wont work, basically just dont want it to work.

BonnieSituation

Beltby wrote: »

5 billion now. A lot less once reforms are introduced. Do you think the North will have 30% of its workforce working in the public sector forever, for example, in the event of a UI?

Yes. Everything is set and stone and Nothing can change ever. That's how it works.

tom1ie

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Are all of our budgets set in stone and unchangeable forever more?

I'm not really convinced that you have any notion about how these things work.

Explain it to me then. I’m obviously not seeing something you see so I’d appreciate if you could tell me how we afford this.

Beltby

tom1ie wrote: »

There is some absolute loons in this thread that are letting their ideals blind them.
Common sense shows we can’t afford to take NI onto our budget sheet.

5 billion now. A lot less once reforms are introduced. Do you think the North will have 30% of its workforce working in the public sector forever, for example, in the event of a UI?

BonnieSituation

tom1ie wrote: »

There is some absolute loons in this thread that are letting their ideals blind them.
Common sense shows we can’t afford to take NI onto our budget sheet.

And they're not who you think

maccored

tom1ie wrote: »

Taxpayers that a large percentage work for the public service that is supported by the uk government. That’s the point. Who fills the 5 billion black hole when the uk don’t supply that money. All of a sudden your tax payers aren’t getting paid.
I mean throw around the insults all you want but your not fooling anyone.

there would never have been a peace process if people with your mindset was involved. it would have been gauged as impossible

tom1ie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Aw, at least your sign off makes sense.

What?

tom1ie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This has already been answered. You do realise NI is made up of taxpayers too. You are either clueless or are what you have been accused of.

Taxpayers that a large percentage work for the public service that is supported by the uk government. That’s the point. Who fills the 5 billion black hole when the uk don’t supply that money. All of a sudden your tax payers aren’t getting paid.
I mean throw around the insults all you want but your not fooling anyone.

BonnieSituation

tom1ie wrote: »

Who pays for these infrastructure projects that haven’t been included in the rep Ireland’s transport projects going forward?
Tax payers who are south of the border at the moment yeah?

Are all of our budgets set in stone and unchangeable forever more?

I'm not really convinced that you have any notion about how these things work.

FrancieBrady

tom1ie wrote: »

Lol! I don’t understand how national debt works yet you see no problem in taking on a 5 billion recurring expenditure that might get less over time but has an equal chance of not getting less.
Your cracked buddy.

Put it this way, the UK national debt is 1.78 trillion or 85% of GDP yet it keeps going. Servicing the debt is the issue, that amounts to 4% of GDP and on it goes. Sovereign debt, look it up.

BonnieSituation

tom1ie wrote: »

I think it potentially gets worse.
I think at a time when we are massively in debt we are talking about taking on more debt to satisfy nationalism.
Don’t get me wrong I love the IDEA of a United ireland but the economics just don’t stack up.
Who loses out to pay for this?

We're ALWAYS in debt.

Who loses out? DO I have to pick a specific person?

maccored

tom1ie wrote: »

Surely wether we can afford it or not is THE most important issue?

which is why there needs to be a nationwide discussion on the subject. Money can be generated - but we need to figure out how first. whinging that it wont work because theres no money is a bit simple minded. there'd be fewer inventions and probably no creativeness in the world if that was the way people thought

tom1ie

ittakestwo wrote: »

This is absolute delusional stuff. NI runs an annual deficit of over €10bn, and NI is being supported by the rest of the UK

And with the rise of English nationalism this maybe a worry for unionists. Why would people who see themselves as English want English tax payers money going to Ireland and not back into England.

There is some absolute loons in this thread that are letting their ideals blind them.
Common sense shows we can’t afford to take NI onto our budget sheet.

maccored

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Is it fair to expect unionists to row in when belligerent republicans are what dragged NI through hell, unable to accept the crumble of the cookie in 1922 ? Why should unionists be expected to behave better a hundred years later ?

The imperfect solution of 1922 was the least imperfect way out of a a particular situation. The ROI maintaining its claim over the 6, and belligerent republicans in the there, are what has stalled NI from being a functional part of the UK and a normal society. People north and south could have chosen to make it work. They chose continued strife. Until that strife is settled, moving it from one jurisdiction to another does NOTHING to resolve it.

they chose continued strife? I think that statement alone is enough for me to ignore you if you think nationalists, catholics or republicans had any kind of a choice. Real insult to people who had to grow up during that ****e

[Deleted User]

tom1ie wrote: »

Your cracked buddy.

Aw, at least your sign off makes sense.

tom1ie

maccored wrote: »

here we go again with waffle of costs, social welfare blah blah feckity blah

FIRST THE COUNTRY NDEEDS TO DISCUSS IT

finance etc will be part of that discussion

Surely wether we can afford it or not is THE most important issue?

ittakestwo

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Westminster does not subsidise Northern Ireland. Every country has transfers of wealth between different areas, with centres of high wealth and productivity, shouldering a greater part of the national bill than others. The idea of NI being a region 'supported' is nonsense. It is an integral part of the UK. The UK supports itself in it entirety.

This is absolute delusional stuff. NI runs an annual deficit of over €10bn, and NI is being supported by the rest of the UK

And with the rise of English nationalism this maybe a worry for unionists. Why would people who see themselves as English want English tax payers money going to Ireland and not back into England.

[Deleted User]

tom1ie wrote: »

Who pays for these infrastructure projects that haven’t been included in the rep Ireland’s transport projects going forward?
Tax payers who are south of the border at the moment yeah?

This has already been answered. You do realise NI is made up of taxpayers too. You are either clueless or are what you have been accused of.