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Civil Servcie mobility scheme

The Third Policeman

Anyone have any indication when mobility will come back on stream for the civil service?

I'm a HEO the last few years and I'm happy out at the grade but a move wouldn't go amiss. Need a change of scene and a bit more experience under the belt.

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Runsallday

What's the story with AO moves outside of Dublin? Are HEO and AO's interchangeable for numbers or are the numbers strictly separated?

e.g. If I am number 1 on list for A0 in a particular area but they don't have any AOs currently, have I any hope of getting in?

Kirbi

Runsallday wrote: »

What's the story with AO moves outside of Dublin? Are HEO and AO's interchangeable for numbers or are the numbers strictly separated?

e.g. If I am number 1 on list for A0 in a particular area but they don't have any AOs currently, have I any hope of getting in?

They're not interchangeable at all - the lists are completely separate.

Realistically, if they don't have any AO positions now they may never have any; and if they only have one there's probably someone in it, so they'd have to leave.

There's just not a huge number of AO roles outside Dublin - there's a reason they always mention it in the competitions.

doc22

Kirbi wrote: »

They're not interchangeable at all - the lists are completely separate.

Realistically, if they don't have any AO positions now they may never have any; and if they only have one there's probably someone in it, so they'd have to leave.

There's just not a huge number of AO roles outside Dublin - there's a reason they always mention it in the competitions.

Even if they did leave you'd have a one in six chance of mobility filling it, and then you'd have to be top of that list to get it.

Kirbi

doc22 wrote: »

Even if they did leave you'd have a one in six chance of mobility filling it, and then you'd have to be top of that list to get it.

Absolutely, that too.

rostalof

doc22 wrote: »

Even if they did leave you'd have a one in six chance of mobility filling it, and then you'd have to be top of that list to get it.

Well, not exactly.

The people ahead of you on the list may not be eligible, or are eligible but aren't interested in a move anymore or are interested in moving, just not to that department/office or there may be people ahead of you who have placed their application On-Hold. It says somewhere on the gov.ie mobility site that people in the 30's on lists have been offered jobs. Granted somebody lower down on the list like that getting offered a move is more likely for EOs, or even more so COs, where the sheer numbers of applicants will be greater, but for the reasons I have outlined, you don't always need to be top of the list.

doc22

rostalof wrote: »

Well, not exactly.

The people ahead of you on the list may not be eligible, or are eligible but aren't interested in a move anymore or are interested in moving, just not to that department/office or there may be people ahead of you who have placed their application On-Hold. It says somewhere on the gov.ie mobility site that people in the 30's on lists have been offered jobs. Granted somebody lower down on the list like that getting offered a move is more likely for EOs, or even more so COs, where the sheer numbers of applicants will be greater, but for the reasons I have outlined, you don't always need to be top of the list.

I've seen the EO lists and they are going nowwhere and only getting longer. If you worked in a regional location you'd see only a small number of posts are filled with transfers. Previous to this AO would request transfer and the receiving department could fill an HEO role with them, that can't really happen now. Operational sections don't need AOs.

ILTB

Hi, looking for some information on certain places on the mobility list for CO. It's looking like my choices are going to be Dept of Education Marlborough Street Dublin or Land Registry in Irish Life building Dublin. Would anyone have any information on either? Flexi, work from home, different sections, pressure of work etc. Across the civil service it appears as a CO, the pressure of your job can be very different depending where you work. Any information on either of these offices would be appreciated.

rostalof

doc22 wrote: »

I've seen the EO lists and they are going nowwhere and only getting longer. If you worked in a regional location you'd see only a small number of posts are filled with transfers. Previous to this AO would request transfer and the receiving department could fill an HEO role with them, that can't really happen now. Operational sections don't need AOs.

Really? The office I work in is regional and has over 500 staff. There have been numerous positions filled there in the 15 months I've been there from transfers. Two of my old colleagues joined there on mobility a month after I started. (I wasn't mobility). I've also seen the EO lists and one of my choices has moved 6 places since the beginning of January (low 20s to high teens). It makes sense that locations with larger volumes of staff will have a higher turnover of staff and smaller ones won't have the same levels of staff turnover.

I'm not saying that all positions are filled with mobility moves, far from it, they're only meant to be 1/6th to 1/8th mobility moves, small numbers in the grand scheme of things. There are sequences that need to be followed for filling vacancies and if they aren't being followed in the locations you're referring to, the offending HR or management need to be tackled about this. The fact is, the system that exists now is far better than what was there beforehand, nothing really. Internal transfer lists that each department fiddled around with and re-arranged to suit themselves (I was screwed personally like this), using the magic 'business needs' line whenever they wanted to leapfrog somebody past somebody else on the list or the head to head union magazine transfers that were blocked for some other pie in the sky reason more often than not.

As for the situation where AOs were replacing HEOs, you're right, that won't happen any longer and rightly so. There was way to many HEO positions being filled by AOs. Operational sections don't need AOs but they were being used as de facto HEOs, not what those AOs signed up for.

doc22

rostalof wrote: »

Really? The office I work in is regional and has over 500 staff. There have been numerous positions filled there in the 15 months I've been there from transfers. Two of my old colleagues joined there on mobility a month after I started. (I wasn't mobility). I've also seen the EO lists and one of my choices has moved 6 places since the beginning of January. It makes sense that locations with larger volumes of staff will have a higher turnover of staff and smaller ones won't have the same levels of staff turnover. There are sequences that need to be followed for filling vacancies and if they aren't being followed in the locations you're referring to, the offending HR or management need to be tackled about this.

As for the situation where AOs were replacing HEOs, you're right, that won't happen any longer and rightly so. There was way to many HEO positions being filled by AOs. Operational sections don't need AOs but they were being used as de facto HEOs, not what those AOs signed up for.

Well I had sligo down when I first started as an EO and it was at 40ish long and moved 4 places under a year.people recently starting looking for transfer are at 80s, and what movement occurred previously could have been people changing roles and promotions rather then mobility. There's was legacy dates and SO transfers at play up until recently. There's going to be a slowdown in recruitment as there's lot of young recruits who will be going nowhere. Average age in offices have changed considerable were I am the turnover in staff won't happen as noone ever leaves unless for promotion. At 80th position you won't be getting transfer any time soon.

At least with internal transfers you could avoid non department staff, you could be brilliant performer in DSP in Dublin and look to transfer home now but the department now has to take someone they don't know from mobility from another department instead.

BlondeBomb

Does it matter at what stage I apply for mobility during the “Day 1 period” (18/01-12/02)?

Will I still jump ahead of people if I have longer service if they applied ahead of me?

Thanks

Kirbi

rostalof wrote: »

I'm not saying that all positions are filled with mobility moves, far from it, they're only meant to be 1/6th to 1/8th mobility moves, small numbers in the grand scheme of things. There are sequences that need to be followed for filling vacancies and if they aren't being followed in the locations you're referring to, the offending HR or management need to be tackled about this.

On the last bit above, the sequence requirements are nationwide not per location.

A HR can choose to fill vacancies in a single location any way they like as long as they meet their overall sequence requirements nationwide.

It's not impossible for the sequence to slip out a bit over a period if one of the methods to fill vacancies isn't available - although the main culprit here is probably when competition lists run dry.

While D/PER require that HRs follow the relevant sequences nationwide, it's within reason - they'll let them catch up later if it's for a reason that was out of their control.

Similarly, HRs might heavily draw from Mobility in counties where the competition lists are dry, and then use Mobility less in other counties to compensate.

Kirbi

BlondeBomb wrote: »

Does it matter at what stage I apply for mobility during the “Day 1 period” (18/01-12/02)?

Will I still jump ahead of people if I have longer service if they applied ahead of me?

Thanks

Yes, you'll jump ahead if you have longer service in the grade.

Obviously people with Legacy Dates will be ahead of all the Day 1 applicants.

paintitwhite

Do people reckon the current covid restrictions could add years to the wait list for a potential move? I assume transfers aren't too plentiful at the minute?

Addle

Like all competitions, the availability of positions is very location specific.

Skippette

Hard to know, I know of 1 case where as soon as Covid hit and lockdown was announced back in March 2020 and WFH came in, she said her goodbye's that week, she hated the thought of working from the kitchen table. She hadn't planned on retiring for another couple of years.

That said, I was talking to an EO, who had always planned to retire last April, but with the wife and adult daughter all now working from home also, he couldn't stick it and volunteered to be available to be in the office because his head was wrecked. (Someone was required to be in the office for post etc). He said, what was the point of retiring to sit at home and watch the other 2 working and we can't go anywhere, I'm better off working!

I think, whenever it comes to going back to the office in the future, you might find a good few will have adjusted to the slower pace and some retirements might start to flow in and create a bit of movement. That said, I wouldn't mind WFH for most of the week with only the odd day in the office.....suppose depends where we end up moving to!

sinorita

When they start making offers what is the sequence in which they are required to fill vacancies?

Kirbi

The sequences for mobility are different per grade - in particular at CO, where promotion competitions don't factor into the sequence.

As copied from the relevant terms and conditions, they are:

CO – 50% Mobility: 50% Open

EO – 40% Open : 30% Interdepartmental* : 30% Internal
(*one in every two Interdepartmental vacancies to be filled by Mobility).

HEO & AO – 1 in 6 vacant posts.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the sequences are nationwide, not per office.

sinorita

Kirbi wrote:

The sequences for mobility are different per grade - in particular at CO, where promotion competitions don't factor into the sequence.

Kirbi wrote:

As copied from the relevant terms and conditions, they are:

Kirbi wrote:

EO â€“ 40% Open : 30% Interdepartmental* : 30% Internal (*one in every two Interdepartmental vacancies to be filled by Mobility).

Kirbi wrote:

CO â€“ 50% Mobility: 50% Open

Kirbi wrote:

HEO & AO â€“ 1 in 6 vacant posts.

Kirbi wrote:

As I mentioned in a previous post, the sequences are nationwide, not per office.

Thanks for that

redmgar

Is your department notified if you apply for mobility?

Kirbi

They don't get an alert or anything, but your HR can see that you're on their outbound list if they check.

singmeasongy

Hi

Just a few questions if anybody knows the answer to:

Im eligible for mobility next month and have currently 3 areas listed. All the same department . Im down the list in 2 of them but 1 im 18 in one. I wont be looking to move this year if offered so thinking of putting it on hold as I see thats an option on peoplepoint. If i put it on hold can i still go up the list or does it stay static at placed 18. Id leave it go longer but ive heard people say you can be offered a place even though on high enough number.

How does on hold work exactly....If i later take it off hold will i be further up the list at that stage. I know if u dont accept you are removed and can only go back to the end of the applications.

singmeasongy

oh just one other question. can i add departments to my application?

i have 3 regions. but only applied for same department in all 3. I think at the time i could have put more departments in the region but wasnt sure if id like them

Kirbi

singmeasongy wrote: »

Hi

Just a few questions if anybody knows the answer to:

Im eligible for mobility next month and have currently 3 areas listed. All the same department . Im down the list in 2 of them but 1 im 18 in one. I wont be looking to move this year if offered so thinking of putting it on hold as I see thats an option on peoplepoint. If i put it on hold can i still go up the list or does it stay static at placed 18. Id leave it go longer but ive heard people say you can be offered a place even though on high enough number.

How does on hold work exactly....If i later take it off hold will i be further up the list at that stage. I know if u dont accept you are removed and can only go back to the end of the applications.

You'll still move up the list as usual if your application is on hold.
Your waitlist position comes from your date of application and your length of service in grade.
(Service in grade is only used to queue you against someone who applied on the same day.)

oh just one other question. can i add departments to my application?

i have 3 regions. but only applied for same department in all 3. I think at the time i could have put more departments in the region but wasnt sure if id like them

You can add more, but only in the zones you already have - up to 5 applications per Zone.

Be careful with your existing applications as well - the Zone limit was changed to 2 last summer (it had been 3 before that). So if you cancel, decline, or otherwise lose the last applications you have in a Zone then you won't be able to have applications in 3 Zones again.

[Deleted User]

Did anyone spot the advertisement today for a role managing the ICT unit at the CRO under DETE? Seems a bit strange to have this post in the Mobility scheme, given that it excludes those in professional and technical roles - generalists only.

Kirbi

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Did anyone spot the advertisement today for a role managing the ICT unit at the CRO under DETE? Seems a bit strange to have this post in the Mobility scheme, given that it excludes those in professional and technical roles - generalists only.

I'm not sure I understand this?
Professional / Technical officers can't apply for Mobility, so they will all be generalist roles.

Wonderstruck

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Did anyone spot the advertisement today for a role managing the ICT unit at the CRO under DETE? Seems a bit strange to have this post in the Mobility scheme, given that it excludes those in professional and technical roles - generalists only.

That means they say, couldn't advertise for an Agricultural Inspector that way, but nothing precludes them from saying this is a HEO role with IT experience needed. I'd say they probably did it that way in the aspiration of finding an experienced HEO with IT experience rather than asking for someone from the ICT HEO panel or from the regular Interd panel.

shamrock woman

The mobility list for various departments for EO in the south of the country hasnt moved at all for the last year it seems to me, although I know it was suspended for a few months because of covid. Has anyone actually moved via mobility at that grade in cork?

[Deleted User]

Wonderstruck wrote: »

That means they say, couldn't advertise for an Agricultural Inspector that way, but nothing precludes them from saying this is a HEO role with IT experience needed. I'd say they probably did it that way in the aspiration of finding an experienced HEO with IT experience rather than asking for someone from the ICT HEO panel or from the regular Interd panel.

Kirbi wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand this?
Professional / Technical officers can't apply for Mobility, so they will all be generalist roles.

The role spec is looking for someone experienced in managing ICT projects and ICT teams - AP level.

The mobility scheme excludes professional and technical roles, which has got to be the vast majority of APs with experience in managing ICT projects and ICT teams.

Seems like a poor decision to put this post into the mobility scheme.

cee_jay

All APs I know in ICT are generalist or AP ICT grade. I don't know any who are counted under P&T.

doc22

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The role spec is looking for someone experienced in managing ICT projects and ICT teams - AP level.

The mobility scheme excludes professional and technical roles, which has got to be the vast majority of APs with experience in managing ICT projects and ICT teams.

Seems like a poor decision to put this post into the mobility scheme.

If you're an AP be that in an ICT role or not you can apply. Professional and technical roles from my view would be solicitor,ag inspector, engineer grades not an AP specialist in ICT who'd be free to apply.