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Keep/get rid of the Off-Topic thread

Cass

Right, instead of the Mods making a decision i think its best that the members that called for the thread to be created as well as those who wanted it gone should get a vote.

Should the Off Topic thread be locked and forgotten or kept open and left as is.

I'll let the poll run until the end of the week and a decision will be made based on the poll results as well as the other Moderators input.

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Comments

civdef

Just looking at a good few other topics here today, is there something to be said for just deciding non-shooting related politics is not for this forum at all?

I can't be the only one who finds relentless conservative euro-skepticism in every second thread a total buzz kill? There are loads of places people can post about the "EUSSR" and "class-wars", but why here? It's off-topic and gives the place a political vibe which definitely doesn't reflect the opinions of at least one poster.

There's no way to challenge it on the individual posts without turning them into political threads, which would only make it worse.

civdef

Actually - while I'm at it, why is the off-topic thread a thing here at all?
It's literally the first thread a lot of people will see here.

Rows Grower

I don't understand why someone would want a thread removed when it's their own choice whether to contribute to it or read it, or not.

I think it should be left there, some of the discussions and videos are very educational but I'm cool with whatever is decided.

civdef

I'd vote to get rid.

The point of forums compared to other forms of social media is they stick to a theme, by it's very nature this doesn't.

It's also prominently present on an open form that rightly or wrongly forms a very public window to our sports. I hadn't actually looked at it until it came up in another thread recently, and what I see is not something I'd personally like to have associated with the sport in this country. It's also got very few active posters.

Cass

Rows Grower wrote: »

I don't understand why someone would want a thread removed when it's their own choice whether to contribute to it or read it, or not.

It has been brought up that there are plenty of other forums on the site where such discussion can, and its been argued is better suited, be discussed.

Its hard to get an idea of just how many are for or against by talking to people so the poll will allow me to get a better idea.

Rows Grower

civdef wrote: »

I'd vote to get rid.

The point of forums compared to other forms of social media is they stick to a theme, by it's very nature this doesn't.

It's also prominently present on an open form that rightly or wrongly forms a very public window to our sports. I hadn't actually looked at it until it came up in another thread recently, and what I see is not something I'd personally like to have associated with the sport in this country. It's also got very few active posters.

I hadn't thought of that to be quite honest, but I'd still prefer to keep it.

[Deleted User]

Can you just hide it? Set up a private sub forum where people who are interested can still chat away?

Cass

Not sure.

I think it may be a case of hiding the forum and not just the thread but i'll ask an admin to look into that. If it can be done then it'll be a case of "allowing" entry to it and while the thread title will be visible only those with access (like the soccer forum) will be able to to both see and post in it.

BattleCorp

I'd keep it too. There have been some good discussions on it in the past.

If you get rid of it, you'll have a pain in your hole telling people that their threads/disucssions aren't suitable for any of the shooting sub forums.

yubabill

civdef wrote: »

Just looking at a good few other topics here today, is there something to be said for just deciding non-shooting related politics is not for this forum at all?

I can't be the only one who finds relentless conservative euro-skepticism in every second thread a total buzz kill? There are loads of places people can post about the "EUSSR" and "class-wars", but why here? It's off-topic and gives the place a political vibe which definitely doesn't reflect the opinions of at least one poster.

There's no way to challenge it on the individual posts without turning them into political threads, which would only make it worse.

I'm as guilty as anyone of posting political stuff on here, so I'll give my hot take on your question.

For me, it started with hunters getting attacked in online forums by antis, where we found that if we stuck together, we could achieve something.

Then we got the semi-auto thing from Martin Callinan and co., which led to a public hearing (linked in the previous posts) which again achieved something of a stalemate, at least and not an outright crackdown.

The latest was the EU firearms directive, which involved many of us contacting politicians directly. And again, we saw a compromise of sorts.

And so we arrive here, with the lead ban proposal. Another political thing.

Really, I don't want politics and shooting intertwined.

It would be lovely if we could just go about our business as many of us have done for decades, without incident.

Personally, I think that we should mellow on the politics side apart from the lead ban.

Grolschevik

Cass wrote: »

Not sure.

I think it may be a case of hiding the forum and not just the thread but i'll ask an admin to look into that. If it can be done then it'll be a case of "allowing" entry to it and while the thread title will be visible only those with access (like the soccer forum) will be able to to both see and post in it.

It can be done as a subforum within Shooting. A subforum on online teaching (moderator-limited access, people have to request access and it's judged on their posting history) was recently set up in Teaching and Lecturing. But the rest of the forum is still open access to all.

A plus point might be that there could be more than just one big OT thread in there; there could be different threads on different aspects of political stuff.

On topic: I've never spent any time in the OT thread. Had a look once and came back out. Make of that what you will.

civdef

Just to be clear, I have no hassle at all with criticism of EU proposals that affect shooting. That’s fair game for a place like this and totally on-topic.

How it’s done is important too though- terms like EUSSR are very loaded with alt-right baggage. People mightn’t mean to, but they end up coming across like Nigel Farage.

I don’t see how discussions about EU common fisheries or immigration policies are relevant to shooting though, to pick recent examples.

yubabill wrote: »

I'm as guilty as anyone of posting political stuff on here, so I'll give my hot take on your question.

For me, it started with hunters getting attacked in online forums by antis, where we found that if we stuck together, we could achieve something.

Then we got the semi-auto thing from Martin Callinan and co., which led to a public hearing (linked in the previous posts) which again achieved something of a stalemate, at least and not an outright crackdown.

The latest was the EU firearms directive, which involved many of us contacting politicians directly. And again, we saw a compromise of sorts.

And so we arrive here, with the lead ban proposal. Another political thing.

Really, I don't want politics and shooting intertwined.

It would be lovely if we could just go about our business as many of us have done for decades, without incident.

Personally, I think that we should mellow on the politics side apart from the lead ban.

Cass

civdef wrote: »

I don’t see how discussions about EU common fisheries or immigration policies are relevant to shooting though, to pick recent examples.

They're "off topic". The very reason the thread was started.

Some of our regulars feel more comfortable posting about non shooting stuff within this forum rather than on the larger site. For that reason the off topic thread was created for people to do just that.

While i admit that certain topics have dominated the thread there are three, actually two, main ones in the news the last 18 months or so hence the reason for the over abundance of those types of post.

slavetothegrind

As a casual reader i think it's a good thing to have the off topic thread, yeah maybe make it access by mod approval as it's mostly same guys chatting.
I personally think the debate on here is more educated and civil than on all of the main forums. Mostly.

alan0387

I've never gone into the OT thread, but I am guilty of recent off topic posts in particular threads.

The request access idea would work great as stated above, that way anyone who just happens to click in would not see that sitting at the top.

I'll do my best not to off topic a thread in future!

Cass

alan0387 wrote: »

I'll do my best not to off topic a thread in future!

Let me 100% clear. You, nor anyone else, has nothing to apologise for. All threads go off topic, it part and parcel of the forum.

The off topic thread is a dedicated thread for the discussion of non shooting related topics so any normal shooting thread that may go off topic, is fine.

Rows Grower

The silence is deafening.

Rosahane

I like the off topic thread, not that I contribute much, but I do appreciate the facility of being able to debate and comment on things other than shooting with people that have the same interests as probably mindset as myself.

For what it's worth, I agree with the proposal to make it a closed forum.

Rows Grower

I'm not arguing or disagreeing with anyone but I don't see why just because we are into shooting we should be afraid to express our views openly on any subject under the sun.

If someone is out of order then they should be pulled the same as any other forum. Maybe this discussion will result in a change in the style of some posters, which mightn't be a bad thing. Then on the other hand if it goes behind closed doors maybe we can really cut loose and throw a few f*cks in without getting banned, I don't know how it would work.

Feisar

Rows Grower wrote: »

I'm not arguing or disagreeing with anyone but I don't see why just because we are into shooting we should be afraid to express our views openly on any subject under the sun.

It's about the optics of it though. I was part of a discussion in the off topic thread when yer man in Germany fluting about with a bow and arrow took a gun from the police and headed to the hills. What's that got to do with the sport of shooting? Nothing and that's why it was in the off topic thread it can be contended. I doubt the hockey forum were discussing it in their off topic thread. It's as relevant to them as us though. Stuff like the above links us (as a sporting collective) with the use of firearms as weapons.

Just my humble opinion on the topic.

[Deleted User]

Rows Grower wrote: »

I'm not arguing or disagreeing with anyone but I don't see why just because we are into shooting we should be afraid to express our views openly on any subject under the sun.
.

I think you could argue that the thread didn't really serve that purpose though.. it was mostly politics, and mostly one kind of politics to the extent that I'd say a lot of people who aren't into that, wouldnt express their views openly in there to avoid any arguments

Rows Grower

riffmongous wrote: »

I think you could argue that the thread didn't really serve that purpose though.. it was mostly politics, and mostly one kind of politics to the extent that I'd say a lot of people who aren't into that, wouldnt express their views openly in there to avoid any arguments

Hopefully it will be back and without that confrontational aspect that was overbearing at times.

Nekarsulm

Haven't looked in here much lately, ( off topic ).
The various media were wall to wall "Trump has had his re-election stolen from him" and counter arguments, to the point that I couldn't be bothered getting the same stuff here too.
With the amount of repetitive Brexit/Covid/US Politics news reports, with reporters endlessly churning out the same questions, I've reduced my watching of TV news and current affairs to almost zero.
Same with radio.
Had removed the Shooting forum from "My Forums" for a few months, but will look in from time to time.
Edit, voted to keep it there now.
Wouldn't be bothered reading it, but doesn't mean others shouldn't have it to post in..

Asus1

I would be of the view to keep it but then when I would view it and see pages of American politics talk I'd just flick to the end and not read any of it as I have no control over what happens in America so I (selfishly) don't care a dot about it.
I look at this site as a whole and realise that most of it wouldn't be for me,but there is some great sections that have a good atmosphere and helpful contribution from people on it and shooting is one.
It did seem that the off topic section got a bit divisional but it never got nasty unlike other sub sections on here,and the shooting community are s mixed bunch so different opinions are expected.
Overall keep politics maybe to the politics section and keep off topic as light hearted.

BattleCorp

How's the poll going? Are we edging on keeping it or getting rid of it?

Rows Grower

BattleCorp wrote: »

How's the poll going? Are we edging on keeping it or getting rid of it?

It's on the top of the page, 25 to 18 in favor of keeping it so far.

BattleCorp

Rows Grower wrote: »

It's on the top of the page, 25 to 18 in favor of keeping it so far.

My browser opens up on the last post so that's why I didn't see it. It was hidden the last time I looked at it (several days ago).

Cass

I'm under no illusion that the off topic thread can be used for a "single voice" "rant". IOW if the posters in the thread were to post thei opinions in the political forum they would come up against much stiffer opposition and possibly not post for the same reason(s) some don't post in our thread. IOW there is an element of safety posting in this forum than another. However that is what the thread is for. Now we won't censor or stop others posting in it but not many come to the shooting section for political, social or current affair discussion(s).

The majority would have the same opinion, but that majority would not be 70, 80%. Its more like the views on keeping it or not, about 55-60%.

Its easy to see it as a clique, but as most here have said they don't bother posting in it either out of apathy or not wanting to be seen to have a different view point. That would change if they did post in it.

Lastly i'm actually, with the benefit of the last few days thinking, for keeping it. We have threads for Youtube, entertainment, and other shooting or non shooting content of a light hearted nature, but the off topic is just that, off topic. IOW anything. There won't be limits on what can be posted in it and one other thing i've discussed with the other Mods is not to have it as a private forum

We've never hidden this forum and make no part of it "secret" as the act of doing so, regardless of content, would in itself cause a fuss. So the same attitude is applied to the Off Topic thread. If you like or dislike the content you are free to post or not and read, or not, the content. We won't be hiding anything.

The poll ends tonight so we'll see in the morning how things end with the thread either disappearing or being reinstated.