FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Wait again, or is this just a repost of the same story from before Christmas (early November?)?

Just in case anyone is wondering, the question which no less than 4 people were unable to answer is: yes, it is the same document in question from reporting in November, not a separate/different document.

Glad I had to waste 15 mins looking into it myself when one of those muppets could have just answered a genuine question. FFS :rolleyes:

Floppybits

#LeotheLeak just will not go away, it just keeps coming back to haunt Varadkar and by extension FG and FF who circled the wagons to protect him. FF members must be spitting bullets after they lost 2 ministers and yet Varadkar has done nothing by lie his way through this. Surely misleading the Dail is sackable offence?

Deleted User wrote: »

Seems to me to be very uncivil language......do you go about effing and blinding at people in work/your day-to-day life over pointless stuff?

Yes. It's really not a big deal tbh in the real world.

[Deleted User]

grayzer75 wrote: »

Who's going to look after the teachers kids?

Now we’re getting to the nub if their concerns. Feck their students. Their own children are more important! Mind you, if I was a parent with young children, a mortgage and possible car loans, I’d prefer sit on my butt on full pay than get up early in the morning and go earn that pay packet.

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'm sorry that you don't understand the difference between a comment and a question.

Great, so the backbone of your defence on failing to read an article linked to and commented on, is now comment v question.

That's nice.

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40202522.html%3ftype=amp

Why are you lying?

Read the article, look at the date, and check out the subsequent clarifications from Holohan, NPHET and .

Maybe then you could stop cherrypicking one phrase disingenuously.

In the very article you link, Holohan asks that specific measures be put in place for particular cohorts such as students with special needs. He says that schools are safe, and it is only the massive movement of teachers and pupils if schools are fully open that causes a problem or a risk. That risk doesn't apply if it is only a small proportion of those teachers and pupils.

The spin that you and others are putting on this goes beyond lying.

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40202522.html%3ftype=amp

Why are you lying?

Sorry, just to go back to an original clarification - are you saying that the quote in the article is to do with "the health and welfare,and [sic] working conditions of their members" or the spread of COVID-19 outside of the schools.

Keep in mind the article to which you linked quotes Dr Holohan as saying:

While acknowledging the deteriorating epidemiological situation, this advice was based on an assessment at that time that the known negative impacts of school closures on children (including student mental health, wellbeing, development, educational attainment and overall health outcomes), outweighed the risks of reopening in terms of potential direct health risks to children and staff from Covid-19 (with evidence to date confirming that schools are a safe and protected environment) and the wider impact of school opening on community transmission levels.

and goes on to say in the article that "While saying that the school environment was safe, Dr Holohan said the movement to and from schools could lead to significant risk."

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Now we’re getting to the nub if their concerns. Feck their students. Their own children are more important! Mind you, if I was a parent with young children, a mortgage and possible car loans, I’d prefer sit on my butt on full pay than get up early in the morning and go earn that pay packet.

They are, and so they should be.

McMurphy wrote: »

Great, so the backbone of your defence on failing to read an article linked to and commented on, is now comment v question.

That's nice.

It is not clear from the article that this is the same leaked document as was previously reported. I asked you a simple question (which you claim was a "comment").

blanch152 wrote: »

I did, and Pearse is telling porkies again.

I'm reading the article in the times, where was this established that Doherty was telling porkies?

Seems very sloppy reporting by the times who are also telling porkies assumedly?

Records released under the Freedom of Information Act to the Sinn Féin TD Pearse Doherty and seen by The Irish Times

ELM327 wrote: »

They are, and so they should be.

If doctors and nurses took the attitude that their health was more important than the health of patients, they would stay at home like teachers do and let patients die.

That is the difference between the selflessness of doctors and nurses and the selfishness of teachers.

The Irish public will remember that it was doctors, nurses, gardai, firemen, bus drivers, retail workers, care workers, nursing home staff, meat factory workers, postmen, delivery workers, warehouse workers and ambulance drivers that risked their lives for the rest of the people while teachers refused to help out the children most in need.

Deleted User wrote: »

Yous claimed he didnt say schools represent significant risk

I showed he did,simple as

Can you gaurantee 100% noone will catch covid in a school envirnoment??

And should those working there,who do....be compemsated for workplace injury/illness??

Is Catherine Noone working as a teacher now?

Bishop of hope

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Now we’re getting to the nub if their concerns. Feck their students. Their own children are more important! Mind you, if I was a parent with young children, a mortgage and possible car loans, I’d prefer sit on my butt on full pay than get up early in the morning and go earn that pay packet.

Hardly fair.
My niece is a secondary teacher with two kids at primary school and one in preschool year.
She has to supervise her own kids at home schooling while teaching her students too.
Her youngest preschool has been cancelled and she has to pay a babysitter for him.
Lots of problems for teachers, they don't all sit on their arses on the couch if school is off.
But schools obviously aren't safe environments or NPHET wouldn't reccomend closing them now would they?

McMurphy wrote: »

I'm reading the article in the times, where was this established that Doherty was telling porkies?

Seems very sloppy reporting by the times who are also telling porkies assumedly?

Doherty says "Varadkar leaked GP contract while minister for health was urgently seeking copy"

Not true, because the article states that Varadkar got his copy from Harris, confirmed by both Harris and Varadkar. The reference to copy being sought by Harris was a later version.

Pearse telling porkies is not unusual. The Irish Times copywriters with sloppy headlines are not unusual either. Leo getting into the head of posters on social media is as common as muck.

Deleted User wrote: »

The irish public will also remember ffg tore up nphet advice at xmas causing us to have at one point worst infection rate in the world.....leading to hundreds of deaths this month

And then blamed personal responsibility,while.still cheerleading varadkar handing out confidential documents with zero sanction

Hypocrites,through and through

Mealy-mouthed at best... you'd almost certainly be here complaining that they "cancelled Christmas" if they didn't.

I have literally seen nobody "cheerleading varadkar [sic] handing out confidential documents"

ELM327

blanch152 wrote: »

If doctors and nurses took the attitude that their health was more important than the health of patients, they would stay at home like teachers do and let patients die.

That is the difference between the selflessness of doctors and nurses and the selfishness of teachers.

The Irish public will remember that it was doctors, nurses, gardai, firemen, bus drivers, retail workers, care workers, nursing home staff, meat factory workers, postmen, delivery workers, warehouse workers and ambulance drivers that risked their lives for the rest of the people while teachers refused to help out the children most in need.

That's a lot of virtue signalling IMO.

Teachers do not sign up to work in a high risk environment, like doctors, nurses, care workers, ambulance drivers and nursing home staff do.

A lot of the rest are likely on financial pressure to continue working rather than doing it for their vocation to be a postman or meat worker.

I do not accept that schools are safe. Our two (15 and 10) are working away perfectly well online. The see saw app is very helpful. We are fortunate enough that both myself and my partner work from home (fintech).

Schools , like offices, are not safe. The new strains spread through children more than the original ones, ergo schools are not safe.

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

It is not clear from the article that this is the same leaked document as was previously reported. I asked you a simple question (which you claim was a "comment").

What's not clear about it ?

Tánaiste Leo Varadkar posted the new GP contract to head of rival doctor’s group Maitiú Ó Tuathail in 2019 when then minister for health Simon Harris was still trying to obtain a copy, official records show.

Mr Harris’s officials had warned that any leak of the document would endanger the agreement. Mr Varadkar apologised in the Dáil before Christmas for the leak, which happened in April 2019 when he was taoiseach.

Mr Varadkar’s spokesman insisted that he had sent an earlier draft of the contract to Mr Ó Tuathail, while Mr Harris was seeking a later version from his officials.

Records released under the Freedom of Information Act to the Sinn Féin TD Pearse Doherty and seen by The Irish Times show increasingly urgent attempts by Mr Harris to obtain a copy of the draft agreement between the State and the Irish Medical Organisation (IMO). This was happening at the same time as Mr Varadkar had posted a copy to the home address of Dr Ó Tuathail, who was head of the now-defunct National Association of General Practitioners (NAGP).

Mr Varadkar told the Dáil he provided a copy of the document to Dr Ó Tuathail “most likely on 15th or 16th April” 2019. Departmental records show that Mr Harris’s adviser emailed senior officials on April 15th wondering “if the document has been completed and if the minister can have a copy”. She also asked: “Is it possible to publish the document?” A few minutes later, one of the officials responded with a one-line email: “The agreement document has not yet been finalised.”

I can read, it was clear to me literally after the very first sentence.

FrancieBrady

The Varadkar defence is in, it seems. 'Nothing to see here', same as the last time.

Deleted User wrote: »

The irish public will also remember ffg tore up nphet advice at xmas causing us to have at one point worst infection rate in the world.....leading to hundreds of deaths this month

And then blamed personal responsibility,while.still cheerleading varadkar handing out confidential documents with zero sanction

Hypocrites,through and through

Glad you agree with me on the disgraceful behaviour of the teachers.

The rest of your post I dispute.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Varadkar defence is in, it seems. 'Nothing to see here', same as the last time.

It was in the article, you probably failed to see it in your rush to splurt out some anti-Leo rubbish.

ELM327

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Mealy-mouthed at best... you'd almost certainly be here complaining that they "cancelled Christmas" if they didn't.

+1
You can't win with some folks, they actually dont care about policy decisions, once they can hurl from the ditches with the opposite opinion.

There was no way that christmas was going to be cancelled. People would have ignored the rules if they tried that.

FrancieBrady

The Foley defence is also in: 'It's the people's teacher's fault'. Same as it always was.

McMurphy wrote: »

What's not clear about it ?

I can read, it was clear to me literally after the very first sentence.

Clearly your statement that you can read is manifestly incorrect given you don't seem to have correctly read the very straightforward question I asked you. I don't see why you're having such a little tantrum over me asking whether this document was the same one reported leaked before Christmas when you seem to know the answer was "yes".

It's that easy, you could have just said "yes" since you seem to know so much about 2019 health documents.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Varadkar defence is in, it seems. 'Nothing to see here', same as the last time.

I know it seems to be wrong to ask questions here, but can I check who you are alleging said that? I must have missed that in the thread.

blanch152 wrote: »

Doherty says "Varadkar leaked GP contract while minister for health was urgently seeking copy"

Where did Doherty say that in the article.

Deleted User wrote: »

Yous claimed he didnt say schools represent significant risk

I showed he did,simple as

Can you gaurantee 100% noone will catch covid in a school envirnoment??

And should those working there,who do....be compemsated for workplace injury/illness??

He didn't say schools represent significant risk. He said the movements to schools and the associated socialisation represent significant risk, there is a difference.

As for the second part of your question, what about the health workers who have actually caught covid in much more dangerous environments? The self-entitlement of the teacher lobby when so many others are giving so much for the community is nauseating.

McMurphy wrote: »

Where did Doherty say that in the article. ?

Never said he said that in the article. Once again, you dissemble and obfuscate in a byzantine attempt to excuse the bad behaviour of a Shinner.

Read Pearse's tweets and retweets.

Deleted User wrote: »

i certainly wouldnt with 2 v.at risk parents,working on farms in evening/weekends for other elderly relatoves....been over 12 months since i seen most of my friends....

im full aware of what this risks are,and am.still perplexed at how forced quaratines on incoming people are even up for debate anymore

Ibec and business lobby groups have failed their membership by not pushing government to persue a zero covid stragedy

I'm not really sure if that's directed at me given it seems irrelevant to almost everything being discussed on this thread and... I don't nor have I ever posted in disagreement of this bolded point.

Deleted User wrote: »

Except he did...but lie away

I have no issue with health workers who catch covid at work being compensated for it.....do you?

I don't accept the compensation culture in Ireland the way you do.