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The way forward for LC2021

History Queen

I'm interested in the views of other teachers as to what should happen to assess the work of LC2021 students. With growing calls for cancellation of the exams and predicted grades, I fear we are sleep walking in to a repeat of last year's debacle.

My personal view is the exams should go ahead as scheduled but perhaps a further review of papers to allow for more choice should happen, suggestions submitted from subject associations maybe?

As regards projects/orals/practicals I can only speak to my own subjects. In History I feel the project should go ahead as planned.

What do others think?

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Larbre34

Absolutely no justification for not sitting the traditional summer papers at a minimum, in July or August if needs be.

By the time we reached those dates last year, it would have been perfectly fine to utilise them, however preparation hadn't been made. There is no excuse this year.

Advance assessments, orals, presentations, interviews will have to be considered, reworked, dropped if needs be, but CA, project work and the sit down papers should all proceed and the students should be under no illusion about it from this day on.

shesty

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

There are too many solicitors will to take a case against the state if they allow certain counties or areas to go back and not others , You can just seen Young Tarquin's mummy engaging her bridge partner the barrister to tell the gov they can't allow boggers in Leitrim access to inschool teaching while her precious is slumming it on Teams.

Reality is LC won't be help til July and Secondary schools teachers will be working June. The seeds were sown last year and the Dept will try it again.

I doubt they will stagger school openings by region, that's a minefield.
I reckon it is a bit early to call what will happen with the LC yet (although you know if we were proactive and planned contingency for these things, then we might be a lot more certain).As things stand, and even based on last year, we should be able to go ahead with the summer element of them though.And if we can't, they should all be well aware of the alternative by some time in March..

thegreatescape

shesty wrote: »

Do we actually know for certain that close contacts are still not being tested?In the last few days, the numbers on all fronts are low enough that surely they have capacity to test close contacts once more.

Unless the HSE website hasn't been updated, they're still not testing close contacts: https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/close-contact-and-casual-contact.html

shesty

Thanks.Although on the basis of general HSE past performence, I wouldn't take that as gospel.But ok, we are assuming they are still not testing close contacts.

shesty

Thanks.Although on the basis of general HSE past performance, I wouldn't take that as gospel.But ok, we are assuming they are still not testing close contacts.

History Queen

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Interesting, many of the teachers I've read on here consider the work they are doing now online as days counted, adding 3-4 more weeks to the teaching year would surely be a hard sell?

It was planned last year before the LC was cancelled to support the LC students forextra weeks up to exams and I would be happy to do that as I was last year. Well, ok maybe not happy but totally willing to do it in the circumstances. I wouldn't do it for everyone else though. Only for the LC because I feel an extended break from tuition before the exams isn't fair. They need support.

Str8outtaWuhan

History Queen wrote: »

It was planned last year before the LC was cancelled to support the LC students forextra weeks up to exams and I would be happy to do that as I was last year. Well, ok maybe not happy but totally willing to do it in the circumstances. I wouldn't do it for everyone else though. Only for the LC because I feel an extended break from tuition before the exams isn't fair. They need support.

Surely your missing the point, If teachers were willing to do it last year, From what I read they were technically working for the 1st two weeks of June on Predictive grades and they work again this june, then las year wasn't a one off but the new normal ? Hard to argue going forward that they shouldn't work in june if they are willing to do it twice?

I envy teachers holidays but not the bull they have to put up with, If i had those holidays I wouldn't dream of giving a day away for fear I'd never get them back.

rainbowtrout

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Interesting, many of the teachers I've read on here consider the work they are doing now online as days counted, adding 3-4 more weeks to the teaching year would surely be a hard sell?

What's this consider business? The days I'm doing at the moment are working days.

History Queen

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Surely your missing the point, If teachers were willing to do it last year, From what I read they were technically working for the 1st two weeks of June on Predictive grades and they work again this june, then las year wasn't a one off but the new normal ? Hard to argue going forward that they shouldn't work in june if they are willing to do it twice?

I envy teachers holidays but not the bull they have to put up with, If i had those holidays I wouldn't dream of giving a day away for fear I'd never get them back.

I see your point but is it any different to teachers giving extra classes after school, coming in to support students during state exams, running extra classes during midterms as has happened before the pandemic? I only speak for myself obviously, but I think many of my colleagues feel the same, well, they did last year, after our treatment by the Dept over the last year or so, maybe not.

Str8outtaWuhan

History Queen wrote: »

I see your point but is it any different to teachers giving extra classes after school, coming in to support students during state exams, running extra classes during midterms as has happened before the pandemic? I only speak for myself obviously, but I think many of my colleagues feel the same, well, they did last year, after our treatment by the Dept over the last year or so, maybe not.

All voluntary, no? I believe that last years proposal was basically "turn up unless you are dying"?

rainbowtrout

History Queen wrote: »

I see your point but is it any different to teachers giving extra classes after school, coming in to support students during state exams, running extra classes during midterms as has happened before the pandemic? I only speak for myself obviously, but I think many of my colleagues feel the same, well, they did last year, after our treatment by the Dept over the last year or so, maybe not.

Teachers choose to do all of those things, they are not obliged to. If it was mandated that we had to work June this year I would not be happy. It would basically say that the work I'm doing right now has no value, and it would send a message to students that they needn't bother showing up to online class because the teacher will make up the time in the holidays. Nope, not up for that.

History Queen

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

All voluntary, no? I believe that last years proposal was basically "turn up unless you are dying"?

Yes all voluntary. And last year it was voluntary.

History Queen

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Teachers choose to do all of those things, they are not obliged to. If it was mandated that we had to work June this year I would not be happy. It would basically say that the work I'm doing right now has no value, and it would send a message to students that they needn't bother showing up to online class because the teacher will make up the time in the holidays. Nope, not up for that.

I'm not up for mandated work either. Working from home is working.

mirrorwall14

I’m paying childcare so that I can teach properly remotely. I’m live with all my maths classes everyday. The feedback was universal last Friday that it was working.

They had better not turn around and say this doesn’t count. I’m absolutely blessed that my childminder is doing some school work with my kid but I could have been minding and teaching my own kids if this wasn’t going to count.

km79

There is only one thing certain
It will be a convoluted mess AND Norma will get her pound of teachers flesh .

I wonder what her colleagues in her old school make of all this now

History Queen

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I’m paying childcare so that I can teach properly remotely. I’m live with all my maths classes everyday. The feedback was universal last Friday that it was working.

They had better not turn around and say this doesn’t count. I’m absolutely blessed that my childminder is doing some school work with my kid but I could have been minding and teaching my own kids if this wasn’t going to count.

I don't think there is any suggestion that remote learning not be counted as class contact days. That would result in absolute chaos.

History Queen

km79 wrote: »

There is only one thing certain
It will be a convoluted mess AND Norma will get her pound of teachers flesh .

I wonder what her colleagues in her old school make of all this now

I've been wondering that too... imagine having worked with her for the last 20 odd years and then seeing her carry on like a little dictator when she gets some power.

mirrorwall14

km79 wrote: »

There is only one thing certain
It will be a convoluted mess AND Norma will get her pound of teachers flesh .

I wonder what her colleagues in her old school make of all this now

I would really be quite concerned going forward that this has irreparably damaged the relationship between teachers and the department, but also between parents and teachers. Teachers are now hurt, tired and feeling unsafe. Parents are hurt, tired and frustrated. And both groups have been pitched at each other by an incompetent minister and department. This does not lead to good outcomes for anyone

Str8outtaWuhan

In Ireland we have a habit of saying the word "voluntary", but meaning the word "expected".

teacher beware!

History Queen

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I would really be quite concerned going forward that this has irreparably damaged the relationship between teachers and the department, but also between parents and teachers. Teachers are now hurt, tired and feeling unsafe. Parents are hurt, tired and frustrated. And both groups have been pitched at each other by an incompetent minister and department. This does not lead to good outcomes for anyone

Agreed, relationships, hard won, have been left in tatters over this. whatever about the dept/teacher relationship the parent/school relationship is so important. Stupid short-sighted incompetence has got us in to this mess. And yet the general public don't seem to appreciate just how dangerously inept the Dept are.

The Department tried to practically buy compliance from SNAs and special school teachers yet they didn't relent. The public still seem to largely think the unions are in it for selfish reasons.... how?!

r93kaey5p2izun

History Queen wrote: »

I've been wondering that too... imagine having worked with her for the last 20 odd years and then seeing her carry on like a little dictator when she gets some power.

I know nothing about her personally, but I imagine that coming from the family she did, and having been a local councillor for 26 years, that Norma's dedication to the FF party above all else, is of little surprise to those around her.

Bobtheman

No LC students will enter schools until late Feb at the earliest.
Look at how long it's taking special needs?
The idea that kids and adults can go to school while others can't go beyond 5k no longer flies with the unions nor I suspect with many parents. Beyond special needs parents. I appreciate their particular concerns.

rainbowtrout

Bobtheman wrote: »

No LC students will enter schools until late Feb at the earliest.
Look at how long it's taking special needs?
The idea that kids and adults can go to school while others can't go beyond 5k no longer flies with the unions nor I suspect with many parents. Beyond special needs parents. I appreciate their particular concerns.

Ya, I'm not sure what can be done for them, it's not my area of expertise, but it goes back to the fact that since last March not a single thing has been done by the DES to plan for a closure in this academic year.

I would assume that NPHET or whoever gave them the Idiot's Guide to Pandemics at some stage and said there won't just be one wave and you need to have a plan, there will be more waves and more restrictions.

Maybe there's planning going on in the SEC at the moment, maybe there isn't. I damn well hope there is. But you would think that part of the contingency for running things as 'normal' would be at least to start recruitment for examiners so they have people to call on to do the work if it happens? Surely it's not that hard to change the date on last year's application forms and stick them up online? Surely?

Treppen

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I would really be quite concerned going forward that this has irreparably damaged the relationship between teachers and the department, but also between parents and teachers. Teachers are now hurt, tired and feeling unsafe. Parents are hurt, tired and frustrated. And both groups have been pitched at each other by an incompetent minister and department. This does not lead to good outcomes for anyone

I don't know about damaging the relationship between teachers and parents. There were a few parents on the news yesterday pointing to the minister as trying to split the 'community' that exists within the Special needs realm.

I think the minister tried to play the divide and conquer hand one too many times. This time she assumed that the relationship between students/parents/teachers/SNAs was the same as secondary, but it's not. Parents of kids with special needs are very very clued in to political bull****e , and arent afraid to say so.

mirrorwall14

Treppen wrote: »

I don't know about damaging the relationship between teachers and parents. There were a few parents on the news yesterday pointing to the minister as trying to split the 'community' that exists within the Special needs realm.

I think the minister tried to play the divide and conquer hand one too many times. This time she assumed that the relationship between students/parents/teachers/SNAs was the same as secondary, but it's not. Parents of kids with special needs are very very clued in to political bull****e , and arent afraid to say so.

I’d like to hope so but in past experience there are many parents, particularly those who don’t have children with additional needs who will accept what is told to them by Norma and the media at face value.

Maybe I’ll be proved wrong but Norma Foley on Ciara Kelly this morning.... almost certain to be a bash the teacher segment broadcast to the nation. And I imagine there will be more of the same.

Going by that press release by the department there is no way in hell she will resign and the tone of it is is such that the plan is to blame us

shesty

Well (as a parent) I emailed a local TD a number of weeks ago re: schools closing (my point was they need to commit to a date and not string people along indefinitely, and push responsibility back on the Dept to act strongly to ensure schools are safe, once the date arrives) and I was told "we were going to open schools but we couldn't get agreement from all the education partners". Which I thought was fairly disingenuous, given the fact that the Dept have not covered themselves in glory so far - at all.

That being said, the viciousness of the current row on both sides is appalling, frankly, and it is not painting either side in a good light.

Rosita

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Going by that press release by the department there is no way in hell she will resign and the tone of it is is such that the plan is to blame us

No way there'' be a resignation to do with basic competence. Political resignations in this country are to do with expenses, drink-driving, being caught leaking stuff, and such semi-detached things like that. The bar of expectation of being really effective and demonstrably competent in your actual work is far lower as the finger can be pointed at someone else.

French Toast

Have other schools cancelled mocks outright or postponed them?

Update recently telling us ours have been postponed until after the February midterm. March-April-May is going to be a hectic 12 weeks if backing everything up is the answer.

Liberal_irony

French Toast wrote: »

Have other schools cancelled mocks outright or postponed them?

Update recently telling us ours have been postponed until after the February midterm. March-April-May is going to be a hectic 12 weeks if backing everything up is the answer.

Postponing, a lot of staff are having to switch from DEB to examcraft so we wouldn't have the papers in time

spurious

Liberal_irony wrote: »

Postponing, a lot of staff are having to switch from DEB to examcraft so we wouldn't have the papers in time

If there is a chance of silly 'predicted' grades in LC again, everyone's mocks have to be run at the same time, or those that hear what was on the paper are at a real advantage.