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If it's worth doing, do it right!!!

OOnegative

Hardly thought i'd slip away that easily, now some will be thinking what is he yammering on about now with his project 2021? The World Police and Fire Service Games take pace in Rotterdam in the summer of 2021, i hope to try and win an age group medal over the half marathon. To achieve such a thing i need to be in 1.21/22 half shape going on previous results.

I start a 12 week P&L plan tomorrow in the build up to the Amsterdam Half in October, hopefully i'll get some idea if i'm capable of a 1.22 Half in 12 weeks time or if i'm just kidding myself.

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Annie get your Run

skyblue46 wrote: »

I get you on the 'if its not broken' line of thought but you were right in an earlier post where you pointed out that the benefits derived from a session are largely dependent on giving the body the chance to adapt. But to be fair its probably like the S&C question on P's log...none of us (well perhaps one) do everything right to maximise our performance mainly because this is a hobby. Whether its pints/wine/cider, chocolate/trifle/crisps, lack of S&C or running easy/post session days too hard there are so many things we could do better.....if we wanted to suck the enjoyment from it.

This is interesting. Yes if we measure every tiny thing we do it can become a chore, for sure and to previous points on stress management no one wants to be a slave to running and S&C schedules but....IMO we can derive a great deal of enjoyment from running well so there are benefits to doing things right. There's a balance there somewhere.

I'd also like to ask the question on change of gait/running form when doing slower easy/recovery pace runs. Does anyone else have this issue and if so, how do you deal with it? For me I'm noticing an ongoing foot issue disappears when I run slightly faster.

Really interesting discussion!

OOnegative

Annie get your Run wrote: »

This is interesting. Yes if we measure every tiny thing we do it can become a chore, for sure and to previous points on stress management no one wants to be a slave to running and S&C schedules but....IMO we can derive a great deal of enjoyment from running well so there are benefits to doing things right. There's a balance there somewhere.

I'd also like to ask the question on change of gait/running form when doing slower easy/recovery pace runs. Does anyone else have this issue and if so, how do you deal with it? For me I'm noticing an ongoing foot issue disappears when I run slightly faster.

Really interesting discussion!

I don’t do any S&C either but stretch religiously for 15 mins post run or I’m an aching mess the following day. Plan on incorporating 2x15mins foam rolling a week from here on it, started yesterday.

I don’t notice my gait/form faltering the slower I run, not consciously anyway. Obviously it gets ragged under stress like a lot of us, that I am aware of.

shotgunmcos

B I created a thread on the main forum for this discussion as I think its a brilliant one that might benefit more that the members of your log (not saying that everyone doesn't read your log!

)

Moved a couple of quotes onto it

Hope thats ok?

OOnegative

shotgunmcos wrote: »

B I created a thread on the main forum for this discussion as I think its a brilliant one that might benefit more that the members of your log (not saying that everyone doesn't read your log! )

Moved a couple of quotes onto it

Hope thats ok?

Typical Limerick man, rob the eye outta your head!!!

Absolutely ok M, all for seeing plenty of discussion around here to benefit us all, great idea.

Swashbuckler

Before this moves to a separate thread I want to make one last point. The easy runs have a purpose in everyone's training. There's science behind it. There are things going on with mitochondria, capillaries etc that all feed into a runners development. These don't happen if you move out of low end aerobic. So regardless of what pace someone is running, if you're not gaining those developments in your easy run, you're running too fast......

shotgunmcos

OOnegative wrote: »

Typical Limerick man, rob the eye outta your head!!!

Absolutely ok M, all for seeing plenty of discussion around here to benefit us all, great idea.

LOL at least I didn't punch you first :P Seriously though Logs are buzzing as usual for the start of January but its also the time when we get new (or new again) folk on the Forum so maybe good to get one or two new thread going there.

adrian522

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Before this moves to a separate thread I want to make one last point. The easy runs have a purpose in everyone's training. There's science behind it. There are things going on with mitochondria, capillaries etc that all feed into a runners development. These don't happen if you move out of low end aerobic. So regardless of what pace someone is running, if you're not gaining those developments in your easy run, you're running too fast......

Yes, and also if you are not fresh for your workout not only are you missing out on the benefits of the easy run you are also limiting the benefits of the session.

Duanington

Just one more thing.....

Joking, off to the other thread.

Good to see some actual running in here by the way, B

Swashbuckler

Annie get your Run wrote: »

This is interesting. Yes if we measure every tiny thing we do it can become a chore, for sure and to previous points on stress management no one wants to be a slave to running and S&C schedules but....IMO we can derive a great deal of enjoyment from running well so there are benefits to doing things right. There's a balance there somewhere.

I'd also like to ask the question on change of gait/running form when doing slower easy/recovery pace runs. Does anyone else have this issue and if so, how do you deal with it? For me I'm noticing an ongoing foot issue disappears when I run slightly faster.

Really interesting discussion!

Don't want your question to get lost as we move on from the topic. There have been times in the past where I've had a few "niggles" that went away when running faster most notably a little ankle muscle strain that seemed to happen on a session where in came fatigued and more flat footed. When I ran my easy runs the following days it would be there but would disappear with strides.
If I was to guess I'd say your form could be altering slightly when running slower. People can tend to run more flatfooted (lazy) when running slow and their form improves as the pace picks up a bit. But that's just a guess. Have you monitored your form while running slow? Are you passively running?

Duanington

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Don't want your question to get lost as we move on from the topic. There have been times in the past where I've had a few "niggles" that went away when running faster most notably a little ankle muscle strain that seemed to happen on a session where in came fatigued and more flat footed. When I ran my easy runs the following days it would be there but would disappear with strides.
If I was to guess I'd say your form could be altering slightly when running slower. People can tend to run more flatfooted (lazy) when running slow and their form improves as the pace picks up a bit. But that's just a guess. Have you monitored your form while running slow? Are you passively running?

Great shout, I tend to "plod" when running very slow so have to keep an eye on it sometimes

Annie get your Run

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Don't want your question to get lost as we move on from the topic. There have been times in the past where I've had a few "niggles" that went away when running faster most notably a little ankle muscle strain that seemed to happen on a session where in came fatigued and more flat footed. When I ran my easy runs the following days it would be there but would disappear with strides.
If I was to guess I'd say your form could be altering slightly when running slower. People can tend to run more flatfooted (lazy) when running slow and their form improves as the pace picks up a bit. But that's just a guess. Have you monitored your form while running slow? Are you passively running?

I'd say I don't monitor my form enough when easy running and yes, probably passively running. I'll have to find a balance between keeping the HR easy and keeping good form. Plodding, as D said, probably sums it up. Thanks for that!

Laineyfrecks

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Don't want your question to get lost as we move on from the topic. There have been times in the past where I've had a few "niggles" that went away when running faster most notably a little ankle muscle strain that seemed to happen on a session where in came fatigued and more flat footed. When I ran my easy runs the following days it would be there but would disappear with strides.
If I was to guess I'd say your form could be altering slightly when running slower. People can tend to run more flatfooted (lazy) when running slow and their form improves as the pace picks up a bit. But that's just a guess. Have you monitored your form while running slow? Are you passively running?

This makes a lot of sense, I have in the past felt the same with a little niggle, doing my warm up at my slow pace felt soreish & was honestly thinking the best thing would be to can the session & especially as it was hill sprints but once I got into it & picked up my pace, my form instantly got better & my foot felt grand! I know I am guilty of maybe having a poorer form on my easy runs, something I try to correct as soon as I become aware of it. Also in regards to the easy run pace I was 100% guilty of running my easy runs too fast, it took me ages to understand the benefits & thinking behind running slower, thankfully i'm a lot better at it these days!

Swashbuckler

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I'd say I don't monitor my form enough when easy running and yes, probably passively running. I'll have to find a balance between keeping the HR easy and keeping good form. Plodding, as D said, probably sums it up. Thanks for that!

In fairness we all do it. I've got into the habit of asking myself every five or ten minutes on my easy runs - how do I feel, is my posture and form OK, am I being lazy. Then I go back to processing life in general. Lol. You should still have a push off even when easy running. What works for me is to remind myself to run tall, keep upright and don't slouch.

Murph_D

Late to this party...

Nothing much to add that hasn’t already been covered, except I have to say I’ve never struggled at all with the CONCEPT that easy running in the context of a well structured programme brings necessary adaptations. It always amazes me the amount of runners, both new and experienced, who don’t find this intuitive, and go the opposite way, convinced that they are different. That said, there’s evidence (Seiler) that many runners perceive effort incorrectly, mistaking moderate effort for easy. It’s not hard to see how this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, as moderate and even tempo-paced runs become ingrained as ‘easy’ in some faster runners who, as Duanington suggests, might be even more talented than they realise.

But a lot of runners have no feel for - and no particular interest in - doing it right. Even in a typical club group coaching environment, they can’t resist competing with each other within sessions. We’ve all seen it. And we know it’s often a different story on race day. But then you get the excuses - hamstring ‘went’, glutes, dodgy ankles, yada yada .

Sometimes these excuses are genuine, but what timing. To turn around the old saying, The worse I train, the unluckier I get.

Some people MAY be genuinely different, and obviously there’s the balance that must be found between sports science and real-world experience (yes, I’ve been reading some Magness), but I suspect most of us are not outliers in this area.

Swashbuckler

Nail on the head D. Well put.

OOnegative

Thursday 7.1.21

6.50miles Easy@8.30min/miles in 55min 17secs

Got out late afternoon after herself got in from work, headed up towards the harbour before taking a left in the direction of Kijkduin. Turned left again about half way there and up a hilly sand dune before returning home via surburbia. Kept the pace nice and handy and enjoyed the run immensely.

Friday 8.1.21

7.40miles Easy@8.23min/miles in 62mins 04secs

Up the same direction as the day before to start before turning right this time back towards Westbroekpark, Nieuwe Schveningsche Bosjes before skirting around St Hubertuspark and back home. Its sore left knee season for me to, ever since i had the operations on my left knee, the knee is sore starting off a run in cold weather but as soon as the body warms up the pain/ache disappears. Another enjoyable run, might actually start liking this running lark again:).

Saturday 9.1.21

10.60miles with last 3@Progression in 8.01mini/miles in 1hr 25mins 02secs

Out early(for me!!) and headed towards Ockenburgh via the suburbs, from early doors i seen that the outdoors was much more busy than it normally would be. The New Year activity buzz was in full swing, got to Ockenburgh and had to avoid a few Dad's that were clearly brought up sans manners:rolleyes::rolleyes:. Done a loop of the hills and onto the cycle path for home, it was very slippy in places and the Flyknit Fk's were more like ice-skates at times.

On past Kijkduin, that is the midst of a full rebuild, with a large crowd gathered outside some artisan coffee shop having no regard where they were or where other people were coming from. One lady nearly getting creamed by a group of cyclists as she took her selfie with some kind of frothy coffee in here hand:mad:. The last three miles felt good and it was nice to get away from the cycle paths and the crowds as i headed for home. Great run on a gloriously chilly morning.

Sunday 10.1.21

3.45miles Recovery@8.51min/miles in 30mins 33secs

A gentle run around the neighbourhood to give the legs some respite from the weeks running, nearly milled a young girl out of it on her scooter but it was my fault according to her Mum for being a runner, she was politely told to "fcuk off"(the mother not the child). 15mins foam rolling post run.

46.25miles for my week off 7 days running!! Long time since i ran the full 7 day week but i made sure to include two recovery days in there to give the legs and body some proper recovery.

I will keep running for the rest of January as the streak will come to and end on February the 1st. I won't increase the weekly mileage, give or sake a mile here or there, from this weeks as i look to build towards........ well i don't know yet.

Running feels great at the minute so i plan on holding onto that feeling for as long as i can.

Swashbuckler

Someone has his mojo back. Great to see.

Laineyfrecks

OOnegative wrote: »

Running feels great at the minute so i plan on holding onto that feeling for as long as i can.

That's great to hear B

OOnegative

OOnegative wrote: »

I will keep running for the rest of January

Best laid plans sometimes get scuttled:(.

Monday 11.1.21

Rest Day, family stuff far more important today.

Tuesday 12.1.21

9.05miles Easy@8.22min/miles in 1hr 15mins 48secs

Working early shift this week, got out as soon as the Boss got in the door. Up towards the harbour before heading for Oostduinpark for a lap up by the ICC and home by Schveningsche Bosjes. Another hugely enjoyable run, HR absolutely ridiculous according to Garmin.

Wednesday 13.1.21

6.80miles Easy@8.22min/miles in 56mins 52secs

A bloody baltic day out, quick lap around the usual parks in the freezing cold(still nowhere near cold enough for Swashbuckler tights). Another crazy day for the HR per Garmin.

Thursday 14.1.21

7.50miles Easy@8.20min/miles in 62mins 33secs

Another cold afternoon for a run, up towards the harbour before cutting left for Kijkduin. My right hamstring was very twingey the whole way through, nothing bad enough to stop but it made itself known plenty during the run(cold weather or hydration possibly). No issues from it after the run or during the evening.

Monday couldn't be prevented but will make up for it. I haven't seen so many new runners at the beginning of the year since we came here, probably double the amount in previous years. Its great to see and hopefully plenty keep it up

OOnegative

Friday 15.1.21

7.25miles Easy@8.19min/miles in 60mins 26secs

Same route as yesterday with a little bit taken off, the hamstring was fine today, no twinges. It was definitely a hydration issue i feel as the day was much colder than the previous one. Ran a part of a sandy circuit that appears to be very popular with locals for incorporating hills. Only thing its 90% soft soft sand, asked a question about same on Random Running Questions thread and got varying answers. Might give it a go once and see how the legs are after.

Saturday 16.1.21

10.60miles Various@7.43min/miles in 1hr 21mins 45secs

This was 4 easy then a 6 mile Progression with a very small cool down. Exact same route as last Saturdays run only it was much colder this week, a real feel of -5 out. It made for a much quieter run thankfully and no dodging of people this week. The run was super and i never felt stretched despite what the HR on my watch said:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:. TbL has addressed this in his log so i won't add much, but my god tights lads, fookin tights. I met one other person apart from myself in a pair of shorts, a woman, she gave me that kind of "Its great to see a proper man at last in a pair of shorts"look as we passed one another. My god tights

.

Sunday 17.1.21

4.25miles Recovery@8.50min/miles in 37mins 34secs

An easy recovery lunch time run around the Scheveningshe Bosjes, legs spritely after yesterdays "faster"run which was good to see. 15 mins foam rolling after, legs in good nick, slight tightness in the calves.

45.50 miles for my week, another consistent week in the bag. Thats two on the bounce!! I always write down a mantra to follow at the beginning of each year on a small piece of cardboard and stick it to our bathroom mirror so its the first thing i see each morning after i wake(apart from herself!!). This year its, "Focus, no excuses", last year i didn't follow what i wrote but this year will be different.

On a side note, its funny to see all the Liverpool fans fretting over yesterdays match, lads ye're nowhere near as good of a team ye are claiming to be if ye couldn't beat that excuse of a United team yesterday. Worst United squad i've seen in my 35 odd years following them, and i lived through the Ralph Milne era!!!

Annie get your Run

OOnegative wrote: »

I met one other person apart from myself in a pair of shorts, a woman, she gave me that kind of "Its great to see a proper man at last in a pair of shorts"look as we passed one another.

Sorry but

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

As a woman, I can be fairly certain that you had no clue what her look was communicating as no man ever gets that right :P.

As a runner, the last thing I'm looking at when a male runner passes me is what he's wearing

(unless his shoes and socks don't match, then that's what I'm looking at...

OOnegative

Annie get your Run wrote: »

As a runner, the last thing I'm looking at when a male runner passes me is what he's wearing (unless his shoes and socks don't match, then that's what I'm looking at... ).

That’s because your OLD and your eyesight is failing you, keep telling you those glasses don’t make you look dowdy, wear them!!!!

OOnegative

Annie get your Run wrote: »

As a runner, the last thing I'm looking at when a male runner passes me is what he's wearing

+, ya Durty article!!!!

Annie get your Run

OOnegative wrote: »

+, ya Durty article!!!!

Obviously I meant his running style, form and footstrike!

OOnegative

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Obviously I meant his running style, form and footstrike!

And I’ll quote one of my favourite Dublin phrases:

“Me bo!!ix!!”.

MY BAD

OOnegative wrote: »

My god tights.

Shorts over tights is worse. Almost as bad as white stocks with black runners :pac:

OOnegative

MY BAD wrote: »

Shorts over tights is worse. Almost as bad as white stocks with black runners :pac:

Ask Swashbuckler what he was wearing around McGrattens on DCM day 2018.......

Swashbuckler

OOnegative wrote: »

Ask Swashbuckler what he was wearing around McGrattens on DCM day 2018.......

Tights..................... With shorts...........

And you loved it.....

OOnegative

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Tights..................... With shorts...........

And you loved it.....

You’ll have to show our new fashion idea this year!!!!

Swashbuckler

OOnegative wrote: »

You’ll have to show our new fashion idea this year!!!!

Oh that one is worthy of McGrattans