What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Indeed.

You look at social media and everyone is saying "trans women are real women"
Being gay is normal etc

In the real world, or down the pub or in the canteen at work or simple conversation away from ear wigging nosey people you will find, as you say most people dont like this immigration raping the country.
Do not like the importation of foreign criminals when we have enough of our own

Trans women are not real women, as we have a factual science called biology
Travellers are NOT a race but a class and for the most part a criminal class.
I believe live and let live, but draw the line when people try to hoodwink me and lie to my face and try alter facts to fit some pc agenda.

Things like this are commonly said, but because social media is dominated by attention whores who want to force their agenda upon everyone else it gives a false impression of what people really feel.

Agree with most everything but being gay absolutely IS normal!!!!

Hellokitty1212 wrote: »

She is clearly a devotee at the Church of St Ebun.

She's young and has been exposed to this stuff for most of her life with any critique, or even measured questions about her narrative either never encountered, or dismissed as a heresy by her politic. These politics are very like religions with very strong self protection built in to dissuade the faithful from any deviation from the credo. To do so as her tweet notes with zero irony marks one out as a "coon" or "Uncle Tom". Well when one is clothed in the garb of the agentless victim, someone from your group not being a victim and having agency is uncomfortable and again raises heretical questions for your beliefs and makes one's insecurity more self evident. Blinkers on. Shutters down. Ahhh comfort. Albeit a temporary one. People would always rather be proven right to their internal dialogues than be happy.

This is yet another difference between many Black/African migrant cultures and East Asian ones. East Asians have had quite enough racism aimed their way thanks very much, but they don't have "Uncle Tom" agentless victim narratives within their migrant cultures. They're more self confident and see success as both an aim and the best defence. Hence why if the Chinese diaspora were a nation they'd be one of the richest and best educated on the planet.

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Things like this are commonly said, but because social media is dominated by attention whores who want to force their agenda upon everyone else it gives a false impression of what people really feel.

I would largely agree. I've seen quite the number of examples of people who would be seen and would self identify as social progressives become quite hardened over the last twenty years on a few matters. Multiculturalism being one. It was easy to buy into it lock stock and barrel when Ireland was almost exclusively one demographic and diversity was at a remove, but not so much in practice.

And it's one reason why the Irish people will not get to vote on it. The government and vested interests know damn well the uncomfortable result.

Hellokitty1212 wrote: »

We all saw a clear video of a black mob racially abusing white people barricaded in a shoo for their own protection.

Emotional friends and family of a guy riddled with bullets (rightly or wrongly by the guards) react emotionally and irrationally against the person they felt wrongly called the guards. Do I agree with it? Of course not but if they were after white people in general I'm sure there were plenty outside the shop.

fantaiscool wrote: »

Emotional friends and family of a guy riddled with bullets (rightly or wrongly by the guards) react emotionally and irrationally against the person they felt wrongly called the guards. Do I agree with it? Of course not but if they were after white people in general I'm sure there were plenty outside the shop.

That’s sickening. Absolutely sickening.

[Deleted User]

Wibbs wrote: »

She's young and has been exposed to this stuff for most of her life with any critique, or even measured questions about her narrative either never encountered, or dismissed as a heresy by her politic. These politics are very like religions with very strong self protection built in to dissuade the faithful from any deviation from the credo. To do so as her tweet notes with zero irony marks one out as a "coon" or "Uncle Tom". Well when one is clothed in the garb of the agentless victim, someone from your group not being a victim and having agency is uncomfortable and again raises heretical questions for your beliefs and makes one's insecurity more self evident. Blinkers on. Shutters down. Ahhh comfort. Albeit a temporary one. People would always rather be proven right to their internal dialogues than be happy.

This is yet another difference between many Black/African migrant cultures and East Asian ones. East Asians have had quite enough racism aimed their way thanks very much, but they don't have "Uncle Tom" agentless victim narratives within their migrant cultures. They're more self confident and see success as both an aim and the best defence. Hence why if the Chinese diaspora were a nation they'd be one of the richest and best educated on the planet.

I think we have US culture, and by extension, African American culture to thank for that. For African Americans, their race is a core part of their identity. So, they've done what Americans are very good at doing:Claiming one thing while the reality is so different.

Black people are a collective group. All black people are victims of oppression by the White man. It doesn't matter where they're from or the circumstances of their lives, all Black people are victims of racism. It doesn't matter that African ethnic groups are often more racist and offensive to each other than most western white people. Just as African Americans have tied themselves in knots to project the belief that Black people can't be racist. Ever.

You don't really see the same dynamic played out anywhere else. Asians rarely, if ever, point to a collective race identity as being Asian. Their interest is along national lines. Very few Chinese/Japanese would ever suggest that they're connected along racial lines... In the M.East, it's not based on race but religion. White people, themselves, rarely focus on race, instead focusing, again, on national lines or other associations.

Race is of vital importance to Black people because it's been proven to be a trump card for gaining benefits in the western world. They're not going to give that up. (I guess the disclaimer is needed that many Black people have zero interest in this malarkey)

Justin Credible Darts

I am all for equality, treating people with the respect and decency that i would like to get in return.

but things have gotten so ridiculous its at a point where people are so consumed with this madness common sense is gone out the window.

for example, take women's rights, a worthy cause to fight for, but when men who now identify as "women" when biology clearly shows they are not real women are now taking the places in olympic squads and real women suffering and missing out, how is that progressive to womens rights ?
It insults real women....yes I said REAL women.

In another bizarre contradiction the majority of people I have seen defend the "islamic" way are women, the very same women were they under islamic oppression would be facing rape, castration, let alone being deprived of things like equal rights.

You see muslims leaders complain how muslims are always thought of as terrorists, well thats hardly a shock, if you find out a bomb went off, you dont suspect the quakers or atheists, you suspect the muslims....its not rocket science, happened to us Irish when the IRA were doing the bombings in the UK, and mentioning this gets you portrayed as some kind of bigot.
Mention how biology proves trans people are not what they claim and you get grief from the pc mob.

If you point out you dont see travelers become lawyers, doctors, surgeons, etc and commit more crime which the stats show to be a fact, and you get others on your back.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think we have US culture, and by extension, African American culture to thank for that. For African Americans, their race is a core part of their identity. So, they've done what Americans are very good at doing:Claiming one thing while the reality is so different.

Black people are a collective group. All black people are victims of oppression by the White man. It doesn't matter where they're from or the circumstances of their lives, all Black people are victims of racism. It doesn't matter that African ethnic groups are often more racist and offensive to each other than most western white people. Just as African Americans have tied themselves in knots to project the belief that Black people can't be racist. Ever.

You don't really see the same dynamic played out anywhere else. Asians rarely, if ever, point to a collective race identity as being Asian. Their interest is along national lines. Very few Chinese/Japanese would ever suggest that they're connected along racial lines... In the M.East, it's not based on race but religion. White people, themselves, rarely focus on race, instead focusing, again, on national lines or other associations.

Race is of vital importance to Black people because it's been proven to be a trump card for gaining benefits in the western world. They're not going to give that up. (I guess the disclaimer is needed that many Black people have zero interest in this malarkey)

African people I have found to be the most violently homophobic people ever. Some of the bile I’ve heard and read is off the charts twisted.

Mod: Banned

doublejobbing 2

Wibbs wrote: »

I would largely agree. I've seen quite the number of examples of people who would be seen and would self identify as social progressives become quite hardened over the last twenty years on a few matters. Multiculturalism being one. It was easy to buy into it lock stock and barrel when Ireland was almost exclusively one demographic and diversity was at a remove, but not so much in practice.

And it's one reason why the Irish people will not get to vote on it. The government and vested interests know damn well the uncomfortable result.

A good 20 years ago a priest from some outreach orgaisation came to our school. He basically said the common tropes of the day- the lad who got a free car because he claimed he was abused on public transport, the woman who couldn't be bothered folding a pram up for the bus because she could get a free one tomorrow- he told us they were all nonsense, to not believe them.

I took it on board. In my younger days I was too busy going out four nights a week to really care anything to do with the economy, society et al. Crime, unemployment rates, refusal to work, migration in relation to housing costs, youth in the early 2000's were not a tenth as politicised as they are now and really didn't care about any of this. The only political young lads I knew were either the odd YFG / YFF nerd or "republicans" (lads who were more enamored with guns and violence than the actual politics of the IRA)

As you got older, you realised the priest was in part wrong. The stories, while they may have been exaggerated for effect, were based in truth.

- People in the welfare system, of all nationalities, can hit their CWO up for nuisance buys. Prams especially.

- there are single adults, even families, who have been on the housing list longer than some non nationals who arrived after them, applied after them, and were housed before them. People who pay substantial mortgages have seen people who have been in the country five minutes moved in to the identical house next door and are paying an absolute pittance for the place. Not a single TD ever seems to have raised this as being in the slightest unfair to anybody involved.

- Syrian refugees spend less than 3 months in a reception centre before being allocated something most Irish people can only dream of- a permanent home that costs circa 15- 20% of their monthly income. Whether the economy is in boom or bust their tenure will never be threatened, unlike mortgage payers in a recession.

In the past the issues were largely economic. Why is money being wasted on x y z while we break our bollix trying to get a slice.

In the last year, particularly since George Floyd, it has moved on to how the Irish are, simply, largely bad people.

Your mam can arrive from Nigeria with a spurious claim in the late 90's, get you a three bed semi in Blanch, raise you and your 4 siblings entirely on welfare, but Irish society is hell on earth because a drunk on the bus once shouted abuse at you and a lad you knew to say hello to around the way was shot while trying to stab a guard.

Nobody wants to elect a weirdo like Justin Barrett, a looper like Ben Gilroy or a Catholic nut like Herman Kelly, but a middle grounder like Matteo Salvini or Geert Widers is badly needed here in some sort of prominent position. Nobody wants or needs a raging racist, they do need somebody who stands up for what is right and just.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

And your friend didn’t turn around and abuse you, or blame you for the actions of someone else who isn’t you, and that’s the difference between your friend, and that idiot. Nobody is obligated to entertain someone who comes out with that sort of nonsense, no matter how someone treats them, that doesn’t give them an entitlement to take their anger out on anyone else. Race or ethnicity or anything else just doesn’t come into it.

I get what you’re alluding to, that people should try and understand why she would say such things before they criticise her for what she’s saying, but I already understand why she’s saying those things - for no deeper reason other than she’s an idiot.

We all have plenty of friends of all different races, colours, creeds and ethnicities, and they don’t go on like that, because they’re not idiots, and that’s why I wouldn’t have any inclination to entertain her or try to understand where she’s coming from. I know already where she’s coming from, and experiencing racism and discrimination doesn’t give anyone an entitlement to take their anger out on anyone else. I would say the same of anyone who imagined they had a right to take their anger out on anyone else, they should simply grow up and take responsibility for their own actions and the way they regard other people and treat other people.

I am not disagreeing with you. She's made a stupid comment and lumped all "county people" into a box which is wrong. It's an offensive comment she's made there no doubt. She's coming out with blanket statements about country people like that because she met some idiots then she loses credibility for sure, whoever she is.

It's just a strange comment that I feel stems from her being hurt/abused is all I'm saying and I've personally seen racism that surprised me and made me realize my mates went through more stuff than I ever thought before.

On race issues my policy is to take the comments from people on the receiving end at face value generally. I have a friend who is a traveller and when she tells me some stories of abuse/racism she faces, I take her word and I think it would be incredibly arrogant of me to be start giving my opinion like im some kind of authority on the issue when she's the one who is the expert as she's living it every day.

Some of the stuff she comes out with is a bit extreme but I know the general attitudes towards travellers and sadly so does she all too well so I believe her. I tend to do that with black/asian etc people too and I think it's really arrogant not to do it, as long as they are coming out with reasonable comments, which in this case she hasn't.

Wibbs wrote: »

And if I was a continuing victim of same I'd either leave such a society, never go to one in the first place, or do what most do settle in areas surrounded by "my own".

Fair enough but I wouldn't leave if I was her. Why should I leave my own country?

fantaiscool wrote: »

I am not disagreeing with you. She's made a stupid comment and lumped all "county people" into a box which is wrong. It's an offensive comment she's made there no doubt. She's coming out with blanket statements about country people like that because she met some idiots then she loses credibility for sure, whoever she is.

It's just a strange comment that I feel stems from her being hurt/abused is all I'm saying and I've personally seen racism that surprised me and made me realize my mates went through more stuff than I ever thought before.

On race issues my policy is to take the comments from people on the receiving end at face value generally. I have a friend who is a traveller and when she tells me some stories of abuse/racism she faces, I take her word and I think it would be incredibly arrogant of me to be start giving my opinion like im some kind of authority on the issue when she's the one who is the expert as she's living it every day.

Some of the stuff she comes out with is a bit extreme but I know the general attitudes towards travellers and sadly so does she all too well so I believe her. I tend to do that with black/asian etc people too and I think it's really arrogant not to do it, as long as they are coming out with reasonable comments, which in this case she hasn't.

And yet you literally dismissed racism towards white people by saying it was “grieving family members”.

Asus X540L

Surely Nigerians should be automatically exempt from even having their asylum cases heard because their country is oil rich and relatively stable. I hear there's some agro in the remote areas with Boko Haran (spl?) but those people can move to the stable parts of Nigeria and surely not Ireland?

fantaiscool wrote: »

Fair enough but I wouldn't leave if I was her. Why should I leave my own country?

She clearly hates it.

doublejobbing 2

Hellokitty1212 wrote: »

African people I have found to be the most violently homophobic people ever. Some of the bile I’ve heard and read is off the charts twisted.

A common sign seen at these protests goes along the lines of:

"Import refugees- deport racists"

The racists, of course, being native.

The fact that most Muslim or/ and African asylum seekers would hold views on gays that would have been extreme in 80's Ireland, never mind now, is lost on them.

I'll link you to an article I read yesterday. The article gives a sympathetic, non critical view, to, amongst other things

- a woman being told by her husband's family that she cannot work

- her domineering husband burning all the family photos

-regulating the manner in which his wife dresses

- the absent father arranging the marriage of his own daughter to her own cousin

- the woman needing her husband's permission to go to a dress making course

- the woman and her daughter seeing no option but to live off welfare

Aside from the arranged marriage, the above could all have come from the plot of Roddy Doyle's 90's drama The Family, about a wife and kids under the thumb of a domineering bastard.

Think again. The above poor me piece was, where else, in The Guardian, featuring the wife of an Al Quaeda plotter involved in an attack that killed hundreds.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/20/wife-of-alqaida-terrorist-suspect

If a Guardian writer, and their equivalents in Ireland like Una Mulally and Colette Browne, ever do a feature about how coercisive control is just an acceptable piece of how Irish men should be allowed to be, I'd eat my own head.

Hellokitty1212 wrote: »

And yet you literally dismissed racism towards white people by saying it was “grieving family members”.

I haven't been responding to you because you don't seem to be capable of having a reasonable discussion. I will give you a go. First of all I'm totally speculating as to the involvement of family or friends and I want to make that clear. I was not dismissing racism at all. I said I didn't agree with what went on there but clearly it was emotional people connected to the deceased, someone riddled with bullets, and they have directed their anger towards the guy in the shop, not towards "white people". They made the "white bastard" remark which was absolutely wrong and I didn't like hearing it either but you are trying to portray it as an "attack on random white people by an african gang" when it was a targeted attack on one person. It was completely wrong, shouldn't have happened and they should probably be arrested for breach of the peace and making a racist remark like that also.

Even if it was a small group of scumbags committing a racist attack, it's a small group of scumbags committing a racist attack.

fantaiscool wrote: »

Fair enough but I wouldn't leave if I was her. Why should I leave my own country?

Why did she or her mother/father/parents leave their own country? Clearly it wasn't working out for them so off they went and ended up here and left it behind. If Ireland and the Irish are so racist and make her feel so unsafe and unwelcome and life here doesn't recognise her "Blackness" enough then why not follow her parent's example and go somewhere that does?

I'd hazard a few reasons why; she's pulling the adolescent ballsology and it will hopefully pass with time. For all the bollocks about the racist Irish and Ireland she knows damned well her bread is all too well buttered here and it would be hard to find a nation on the planet where it would be better for her, not least the place her parents legged it from.

Plus she's not racially, ethnically or culturally Irish but most of all she seems to have strong feelings of negativity towards this country and a large cohort of its people, so hardly seems much like her country at all does it?

Oh and I'd say the same to any Irish born and bred here who constantly whine about the country and its people and wished they were in [insert Utopialand here]. Well then, piss off with my blessings.

I'm loving the not at all inflammatory "riddled with bullets" phrase.

Kermit.de.frog

One thing I find bizarre with some of these gang members in Ireland is that some of them seem to have quite specific London accents. They must be forcing that accent because I'm fairly sure it doesn't come naturally from having been born and raised in Ireland.

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm loving the not at all inflammatory "riddled with bullets" phrase.

Anyone else hearing Liam Neeson’s voice when that’s posted???

Justin Credible Darts

this ~"racist Ireland" spoken by black people irks me.

first off, I dont ever recall Ireland ever having a slave trade, in fact it was non whites that came to this country and took the irish as slaves, so forgive me if I dont ever suffer white guilt, not now not ever.

Even if white people did wrong things, I did not do it, and I will not feel guilty ever for something I had no part in. I had no say in the race, sex, color etc of what I am.I be ****ed if i am ever going to take responsibility for the actions of others long since dead and wiped from the planet.

I know if i went to saudi arabia and some other countries and criticized their laws , rules and way of life I would not be afforded the same chances as those here that slate the system.

Never ceases to amaze me the people who leave their own country cos it was ****, and then proceed to try to make this one like the one they left, why did they not stay where they were then ?

I will also say being black today is not a problem, if anything it gives you an added bonus, you can play the race card whenever you dont get your way.
There are more doors open for minorities now than the non minorities.
Still I am sure some pc brainwashed person will find some fault in my post how i must be racist.

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

this ~"racist Ireland" spoken by black people irks me.

first off, I dont ever recall Ireland ever having a slave trade

Indeed. If someone from Nigeria specifically pulls that slaver nonsense point out to them that Nigeria AKA The Slave Coast had slavery as part and parcel of their culture and economy long before any Europeans showed up and long after the same Europeans outlawed the practice, right up until the 1940's along the traditional lines and it continues today to be a place where slavery still goes on. So a Black person from Nigeria is by quite a ways far more likely to have ancestors that benefited from that foul practice than a White Irish person.

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed. If someone from Nigeria specifically pulls that slaver nonsense point out to them that Nigeria AKA The Slave Coast had slavery as part and parcel of their culture and economy long before any Europeans showed up and long after the same Europeans outlawed the practice, right up until the 1940's along the traditional lines and it continues today to be a place where slavery still goes on. So a Black person from Nigeria is by quite a ways far more likely to have ancestors that benefited from that foul practice than a White Irish person.

It may not be on the same scale but there is slavery in Africa right this second.

theguzman

Most people in Ireland have no idea about Nigeria or what the country is like, Nigeria is an artificial construct, it is not a natural country like Ireland is, it is several distinct ethnic groups lumped in together and expected to play happy families under the one false flag. In the North you have sahel Muslims who every so often go on a killing spree against Christians, in the South you have Igbo people who unsuccesfully tried to breakaway in the shortlived Biafra state, the yoruba people to the west form the most pwerful christian ethnic group. It is a country which should not exist and is still suffering the after effects of Colonialism.

However they need to stand up and sort their own lives out and look forward not to the past, they have enormous mineral wealth and amazing weather and land, look at how succeesful South Africa and Rhodesia were under colonialism and apartheid, similar tropical countries are in much better shape like Brazil and Indonesia, Kenya is an example of Africa getting it right also much better. Africa has 50+ countries but in reality should have double or triple that to allow for the enormous amount of ethnicities involved.

Mr. Karate

Hellokitty1212 wrote: »

It may not be on the same scale but there is slavery in Africa right this second.

But since Whites aren't carrying it out the do gooders and virtue signallers willfully ignore it.

Justin Credible Darts

there are black people in the states who actually believe they are deserving of a financial payment due to the suffering of other black people from history.

And then they wonder why a stereotype of free loading black people looking for a handout exists.
Nothing perpetuates the notion of this more when black people who never suffered slavery think they are "entitled" because the are black, something they had no say in, or for slavery that they personally never experienced.

and why should the tax payer of today pay for the crimes of people dead from the past ?

You dont see my or my family with the hand out demanding money of the British government for what they did to my ancestors.

Strumms

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Never fails to amaze me how quick people are to criticise their new country, which has housed and offered them safety from whatever country they HAD to escape escape from. All cheerled on by our media.

Almost never a bad word about their homeland or wanting to improve it by recent arrivals or our media.

Ridiculous but unsurprisingly BS from the Indo, they might as well have Justin Barret on it...... Why the media indulge these people. Blindboy is a moron.

Asylum :
protection or safety, especially that given by a government to people who have been forced to leave their own countries for their safety or because of war:

Who can apply for asylum

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/asylum-status-eligibility

To apply for asylum, you must:
Be unable to go back to your own country (if you're stateless, this is the country you usually live in) because you fear persecution.
Be unable to live safely in any part of your own country.
Have failed to get protection from authorities in your own country.
This persecution must be for one of the following reasons:
Race
Religion
Nationality
Political opinions
Membership of a particular social group that puts you at risk, eg your gender, gender identity, sexual orientation.

If you meet this criteria and arrive here and want to criticize this country / us... depressing.

enricoh

I wonder will many of our esteemed tds be tweeting about this attack in our multicultural balbriggan, I doubt it. Lucky girl. The local sinn fein td hasn't but commented that she wants the angelus scrapped. No doubt a more pressing concern to the towns residents.

https://amp.independent.ie/news/three-hooded-teenagers-attack-young-mother-with-knife-as-she-walks-in-park-39977638.html
The situation in this town is getting out of hand and I don't want my daughters growing up here in the way it is at the minute.

Wibbs wrote: »

Why did she or her mother/father/parents leave their own country? Clearly it wasn't working out for them so off they went and ended up here and left it behind. If Ireland and the Irish are so racist and make her feel so unsafe and unwelcome and life here doesn't recognise her "Blackness" enough then why not follow her parent's example and go somewhere that does?

I'd hazard a few reasons why; she's pulling the adolescent ballsology and it will hopefully pass with time. For all the bollocks about the racist Irish and Ireland she knows damned well her bread is all too well buttered here and it would be hard to find a nation on the planet where it would be better for her, not least the place her parents legged it from.

Plus she's not racially, ethnically or culturally Irish but most of all she seems to have strong feelings of negativity towards this country and a large cohort of its people, so hardly seems much like her country at all does it?

Oh and I'd say the same to any Irish born and bred here who constantly whine about the country and its people and wished they were in [insert Utopialand here]. Well then, piss off with my blessings.

Well, a fair bit of conjecture there by yourself. I know nothing about this girl other than the tweet. I just assumed based on how she writes and looks that shes been born and raised here, certainly culturally Irish. I don't want to look into it further as she lost me with that comment about country people. I was just taking you up on suggesting she leave the country but since you suggested that white Irish born and bred should also leave if they don't like it then you're being consistent so I have no issue. Id say its not as easy as just uping and leaving. Having traveled a fair bit myself I would leap at the opportunity to just up and leave to Amsterdam or Stockholm, cities I enjoy far more than Dublin and the people there seemed to be generally much nicer. If I could up and leave I probably would but it isn't that simple.