Wanderer78 wrote: » property prices seem to be continually rising in my region, so im not convinced of them settling anytime soon, thank god incomes are rising in proportion!
Wanderer78 wrote: » ...or we could continue as is... and see will things work out....
Idbatterim wrote: » FFG are the left, except when it comes to rip off housing, we are pretty unique. We keep hearing ireland is a great place to do business, yeah great for multinations and vulture funds contributing SFA. But FG say they reward work and the masses lap it up, "oh it must be true" even down to the health service shambles etc here, trying to keep doctors and nurses etc, we cant do much about the weather, but the rip off cost of living and high taxes on moderate to high incomes, just exacerbates the problem! But why sort the problem ? cutting the insane marginal rate, when you can exacerbate it by giving pay rise to certain employees, to try to address the problem in one area, when its private industry that makes choices of where to locate, whether extra work or jobs, hours are worthwhile. Its not discussed in the media, because of how progressive, LOL, they are. But the penal taxation system for some and fantasy land taxation system for primarily low income workers, is a serious problem. We will run out of roadway in a few years and its been coming for years and I look forward to seeing the results!
Wanderer78 wrote: » hahaha, people are nuts! the more plutocratic elements of our economy, have strong state protectionism, common under these ideologies, these parties are far from left!
Idbatterim wrote: » wandered I agree with much of what you say. But we have an outrageous welfare state, free luxury housing etc. Paid for by absolutely penal income related taxes and confiscation of wealth and labour. I would call that left government! Anywhere except ireland, this would be considered left. Look what I post here, hardly deemed leftish views, I was considered left leaning politically by many in the states when I visit. Ireland is not reality!
PropQueries wrote: » I don’t think many social welfare recipients have requested free luxury housing. They require 4 walls and a roof. There’s generally no such thing as luxury housing up to the €600k mark in Dublin. Whether they’re council or private houses, they’re all generally just four walls and a roof. They also both generally cost less than €200k to build when excluding site, VAT, profit margins etc. If the local council decides to pay developers up to €700k+ for an apartment on sheriff street (if true from recent news story), that’s not the recipients fault IMO. The data on the €20 billion “welfare” bill for 2019 clearly shows that “welfare”, as the layman understands it, amounts to a small percentage of that total bill, with 40% going to pensions alone of which about half that pension bill goes to public sector pensioners who unlike in other countries paid very little in either PRSI or pension contributions throughout their careers.
Cyrus wrote: » what they are requesting is housing in their locality and despite your musings otherwise this comes with increased costs leaving site costs aside and vastly increased costs if site costs are included. its all well and good saying no one asked for a luxury house but if they are requesting to live in a specific area then they are requesting an expensive property.
PropQueries wrote: » The glass bottle site is a prime example. The state could have easily taken that off NAMA and used similar contractors to the ones used in Tallaght etc. to build houses (designed and built) for under the €200k mark.
Timing belt wrote: » Yes bubbles in all assets thanks to QE... The fact that CBI adopted lending rules before the rest of world will help shield Ireland as we don't have a bubble in housing.
PropQueries wrote: » I see no problem with them asking to be near their families. There’s nothing but empty or under utilised sites in the city centre. The glass bottle site is a prime example. The state could have easily taken that off NAMA and used similar contractors to the ones used in Tallaght etc. to build houses (designed and built) for under the €200k mark. Here’s the example (linked by another poster a while back) of Sisk Living’s design and build contract in Tallaght in 2018. They built 90 houses in 37 weeks for c. €180k each. Has construction inflation been at Zimbabwe levels in Ireland over the past two years? Link to Sisk Living Tallaght article here: https://www.irishbuildingmagazine.ie/2018/11/01/sisk-living-delivers-90-social-houses-in-tallaght/
Cyrus wrote: » One assumes that the site works at the glass bottle site will be extensive, and im not sure anyone thinks that building a 37 acre estate of purely social housing is a good idea. Especially on a site as valuable as that. Are sisk still building houses for SDCC at 180k a pop? the circumstances that led to them taking that contract (one assumes in 2015/2016) may not prevail now.
PropQueries wrote: » Well their costs appear to line up with the 2020 costs of building stated by Cairn Homes yesterday. They stated their average selling price including VAT was c. €350k during 2020. Once site costs, VAT, profit margins etc. are removed that would bring their cost of construction down to c. €200k per unit during 2020. Near enough in line with Sisk Livings design and build figures in 2018.
Cyrus wrote: » so you are comparing a 200k stripped out cost to sisks 177k all in cost, why?
PropQueries wrote: » So when Cairn Homes sold their houses during 2020 for an average of c. €350k including VAT each, they just handed over the shell to the purchasers and told them to complete the rest themselves? Out of the property game for a few years now but if that’s what’s going on now I can’t disagree with you I guess.
Cyrus wrote: » im never sure if you are pretending to misunderstand or not. anyway you strip margin and vat out of cairns costs and compare it to sisks all in cost which includes their margin, again why?
PropQueries wrote: » It's simple. Because you stated "Are sisk still building houses for SDCC at 180k a pop? the circumstances that led to them taking that contract (one assumes in 2015/2016) may not prevail now" and are suggesting that the cost of construction has increased significantly between 2018 and 2020 and that one can't compare Sisk Living designing and building A2-rated homes in Tallaght for c. €180k each in 2018 with the cost of construction today.
PropQueries wrote: » It's simple. Because you stated "Are sisk still building houses for SDCC at 180k a pop? the circumstances that led to them taking that contract (one assumes in 2015/2016) may not prevail now" and are suggesting that the cost of construction has increased significantly between 2018 and 2020 and that one can't compare Sisk Living designing and building A2-rated homes in Tallaght for c. €180k each in 2018 with the cost of construction today. Yesterday, Cairn Homes stated that their average selling price during 2020 was c. €350k including VAT. Once VAT, site costs and profit margin are removed, that shows that construction costs haven't increased significantly since Sisk Living completed their contract two years ago. Sisk Living didn't have to pay either VAT on the end selling unit or site costs. It also shows that DCC recently stating that they can't build units for less than €400k on their own land is most likely not true given that Cairn Homes also contracts out most of their construction to building contractors. If the cost of construction i.e. labour, materials etc. hasn't increased significantly over the past two years, where is all the extra money going (apparently costs have doubled in the past two years based on the Sisk Living contract in Tallaght and comparing it with the DCC cost of building in 2020 statement) as it's not going on the site, VAT or profit margin as DCC doesn't have these costs?
Hubertj wrote: » Does the council contract out all construction or do they have their own construction teams as well?
MacronvFrugals wrote: » AFAIK its all contracted out for renovations, my brother works for a smallish building firm 30-40 lads as an electrician and they do lots of work for the council. Ironically the guy that runs the firm is related to a big wig in DCC, everything is milked price wise because as the owner says "who else will they get to do the job" Say they go into a home and there's a decent newish boiler well these guys will bill the council for a new boiler while leaving the existing one there, the stories my brother has would horrify people and i imagine most of these small contractors are like this. My brother swears blindly the cost for some of these projects goes so unnecessarily high and wonders why the council don't just employ their own teams, its not even like they're efficient because they constantly run to each job and hang a door or install a sink just to keep the appearance of a job in progress while focusing mainly on the non council jobs were final payment requires meeting real targets
awec wrote: » Cause councils have no idea how to build houses.
Timing belt wrote: » Are you not comparing apples with oranges? Standard houses on a greenfield site.....Non-standard houses/apartments in city centre.... Plus there will probably extra costs e.g. work at off peak times to cause traffic jams etc...
Browney7 wrote: » Bit of a stretch that these cost 200k of a difference no? Isn't Oscar Traynor a Greenfield site requiring no demolition? It just seems baffling to me that one hand of the state was able to get units built at a significantly cheaper rate two to three years ago than that been touted in the media right now by DCC. It is also curious that DCC in trying to get the Oscar Traynor development passed said housing delivery would be delayed yet over a year on from the o'devaney gardens approval, work has still to commence. We can get into VAT, land costs, infill costs etc to try and confuse the issue all we like but do we really think the effective cost to the state of delivering a 2 bed apartment on land it already owns is really over 400k a unit? I just have huge concerns the state is being screwed and is letting itself get screwed on housing delivery
Hubertj wrote: » Of course it is being screwed. Most public servants are barely competent in their jobs. Add in there is no accountability for not performing why would they give a toss how much it costs? It’s not their money, it’s ours. Unions have the public sector so wound up in bureaucracy it takes an age to get anything done. Add in weak management and cowardly governments reform will not happen. Drop Sinn Fein into government and you think they will fix the system? Take on unions?
