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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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vicM

McGiver wrote: »

No penalties. But you'll have to pay Irish VAT. And the biggest issue is the certificate of conformance, good luck with that.

Aren't most cars sourced in the UK EU made cars?

Silent Running

The certificate of conformance thing is a bit of a red herring for cars registered in the EU.

I had a problem registering a VW Multivan Highline that I imported to Spain from Germany. There had never been one registered in Spain, so they were all confused, even though it was a normal VW T4 albeit a high trim level.

I made contact with VW in Germany and they posted a certificate of conformity for the van. The Spanish ITV (NCT) centre boss looked at it and grunted. The registration was then issued.

Cars built outside the EU might be a bit more difficult, but there would be a cert of conformance available for any car sold in the EU, including Tesla.

the_amazing_raisin

vicM wrote: »

Aren't most cars sourced in the UK EU made cars?

Not necessarily, Nissan, Toyota and Honda all have factories in the UK

The VAT issues are around used cars being imported into Ireland. A new car built in the UK and then exported won't have to pay VAT in the UK because it was never sold in the UK

I believe a car dealership can remove the VAT on a new car if they provide proof of export. You'll still be paying VAT in Ireland, but you wouldn't be double charged

However for a used car, there isn't any VAT component of the price in the UK, and you'll be charged VAT on the purchase price in Ireland. So you're effectively being double taxed on a used car

vicM

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Not necessarily, Nissan, Toyota and Honda all have factories in the UK

The VAT issues are around used cars being imported into Ireland. A new car built in the UK and then exported won't have to pay VAT in the UK because it was never sold in the UK

I believe a car dealership can remove the VAT on a new car if they provide proof of export. You'll still be paying VAT in Ireland, but you wouldn't be double charged

However for a used car, there isn't any VAT component of the price in the UK, and you'll be charged VAT on the purchase price in Ireland. So you're effectively being double taxed on a used car

Isn't that for used cars less than 6 months old/ 6000 kms? Or is that now changed as of yesterday?

Mean the VAT thing..

the_amazing_raisin

vicM wrote: »

Isn't that for used cars less than 6 months old/ 6000 kms? Or is that now changed as of yesterday?

Mean the VAT thing..

Well basically a car less than 6 months old or less than 6000km is classed as new by revenue

I feel like the VAT thing in the UK might be a bit of a hard sell to the dealership, you're basically asking them not to pay tax, which would quite rightly make them nervous

However if it does work out then I think buying a new car in the UK might suddenly become more economical. Cars are generally cheaper in the UK and even after VRT and VAT is paid there could be some savings to be had

Used car imports are most likely dead unfortunately. The only way workable path is via Northern Ireland, you'd need to import the car new to NI, drive it until it's a used car, then sell it. Probably only viable for a dealership or import company to do that

liamog

Dohvolle wrote: »

Yes but the EU VAT rules will no longer apply to the UK. If you pay VAT there, you'll have to pay it on point of entry to EU also.
Here is HMRC's guidance for UK traders.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

From an importing used EVs point of view, you will still be able to do so without paying UK VAT long as the UK car is what's called VAT Qualifying, it's definitely a massive reduction in the number of used cars available to us.

graememk

liamog wrote: »

From an importing used EVs point of view, you will still be able to do so without paying UK VAT long as the UK car is what's called VAT Qualifying, it's definitely a massive reduction in the number of used cars available to us.

We've run across the vat qualifing thing before on the business side of things in ireland.

Buying new , not a problem, but say if we were to buy a second hand piece of machinery, and the owner before us wasn't VAT registered, then then VAT can't be claimed back from that purchase.

So for cars, unless it was originally owned by a business, can't claim the vat back off it.

JohnC.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/05/electric-cars-record-market-share-norway

54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020 were BEV. It increased through the year, hitting a high of just about 67% in December. Biggest seller was the E-Tron, beating Model 3 into second.

ELM327

I saw that mentioned on Kris Rifa's channel. ETron selling really well up there. The shorter range is made up for by the great quattro system for the Norway winter, and the great norwegian charging infrastructure - they have widespread HPC coverage.

AndyBoBandy

ELM327 wrote: »

the great norwegian charging infrastructure - they have widespread HPC coverage.

I bet they have sites up there with more HPC's than we have on the entire island of Ireland......

We have what, 30 Tesla units (32 if you include the 2 at Birdhill that are not in use), 14? Ionity units, and 3/4 ESB HyperLoops?

ELM327

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I bet they have sites up there with more HPC's than we have on the entire island of Ireland......

We have what, 30 Tesla units, 14? Ionity units, and 3/4 ESB HyperLoops?

Nebennes has more Tesla stalls (44) than we have Tesla and Ionity combined.

The "ecars HPC", two of which are software limited to 50kW still

AndyBoBandy

ELM327 wrote: »

The "ecars HPC", two of which are software limited to 50kW still

They'll unlock it to 100kW when they get another cheque for €10m

:D:D

KCross

https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/press-releases/volkswagen-group-strengthens-market-position-in-2020-and-hits-the-ground-running-in-e-offensive-6752

Some highlights...
Overall sales down 15% in 2020 due to Covid but BEV sales are up 200+% at 231,600 and 190,500 PHEVs (+175 per-cent).

For VW brand...

"In Western Europe, the share of electric vehicles therefore surged to 10.5 percent of overall deliveries (2019: 1.9 percent)"

10% is a healthy figure considering where they were at in 2019 and considering Covid in 2020. Imagine where it will go over the next 5 years when ID.4 comes on stream and Covid goes away!

The ID.3 and eTron numbers were strong.
– Volkswagen ID.3 56,500 units
– Audi e-tron 47,300 units

JohnC.

I've never been to an Applegreen motorway services, so do they generally have charging? Maybe a particular provider? They've apparently started work on a service area in Mullinavat near the southern end of the M9.

AndyBoBandy

JohnC. wrote: »

I've never been to an Applegreen motorway services, so do they generally have charging? Maybe a particular provider? They've apparently started work on a service area in Mullinavat near the southern end of the M9.

Some Applegreen motorway services have a free to use 50kW DC charger at them, like at Birdhill, where that’s 5 50kW units I believe.

Mullinavat would be a good location for a fast charger.

MJohnston

JohnC. wrote: »

I've never been to an Applegreen motorway services, so do they generally have charging? Maybe a particular provider? They've apparently started work on a service area in Mullinavat near the southern end of the M9.

M1 has four charging stations at Applegreen locations, and there’s at least one on the M11.

the_amazing_raisin

MJohnston wrote: »

M1 has four charging stations at Applegreen locations, and there’s at least one on the M11.

I thought you meant 4 per site and I was about to start jumping for joy, but then realised there are 4 Applegreen service stations, 1 charger per site

Thank you ESB

the_amazing_raisin

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Some Applegreen motorway services have a free to use 50kW DC charger at them, like at Birdhill, where that’s 5 50kW units I believe.

Mullinavat would be a good location for a fast charger.

Just checked plugshare, 2x 50kW tritium units with CCS and Chademo

Still miles ahead of an ESB site, having luxuries like a backup charger in case one is broken. Noticed in the comments that apparently one of the CCS plugs was kaput and the poster just moved to the other charger

If that was an ESB site they'd have been stuck

MJohnston

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I thought you meant 4 per site and I was about to start jumping for joy, but then realised there are 4 Applegreen service stations, 1 charger per site

Thank you ESB

Well of course two of the M1 stations also have about 10 Superchargers EACH that I've never once seen being used.

AndyBoBandy

MJohnston wrote: »

Well of course two of the M1 stations also have about 10 Superchargers EACH that I've never once seen being used.

Those Tesla boys, do be in and out in a flash, and if you blink you'll miss them...

:D:rolleyes:

zg3409

cruisey1987 wrote: »

If that was an ESB site they'd have been stuck

A few ESB sites now have 2 x 44kW+ chargers. Kells has 2 co located (one 150kW) and another 44kW nearby.

They have plans for more 2 44kW+ sites, some with 150kW chargers.
I always assume sites will be busy/broken/blocked and a fill up with at least enough range to reach another site. I also check recent history on plugshare and zapmap and Facebook comments and even pick a route with better coverage even if a bit longer. I look at real time data on route and fly past a charger if its recently started a charge assuming I will need to queue. Its far from ideal but reduces anxiety if you know you are very unlikely to run out of power or queue unnecessarily.

markpb

zg3409 wrote: »

I always assume sites will be busy/broken/blocked and a fill up with at least enough range to reach another site. I also check recent history on plugshare and zapmap and Facebook comments and even pick a route with better coverage even if a bit longer. I look at real time data on route and fly past a charger if its recently started a charge assuming I will need to queue. Its far from ideal but reduces anxiety if you know you are very unlikely to run out of power or queue unnecessarily.

The bit in bold is candidate for understatement of the year!

Water John

I see that Toyota announced, (which I missed) that they have a Solid State Battery (SSB) almost developed. It has 2.5 times the density of Li-ion and can be recharged from 0- 100% in 10 minutes. Anybody have any info on this?
This article turned up in an agri forum I follow:

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/could-toyotas-latest-battery-announcement-change-tractors-forever/

ELM327

Water John wrote: »

I see that Toyota announced, (which I missed) that they have a Solid State Battery (SSB) almost developed. It has 2.5 times the density of Li-ion and can be recharged from 0- 100% in 10 minutes. Anybody have any info on this?
This article turned up in an agri forum I follow:

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/could-toyotas-latest-battery-announcement-change-tractors-forever/

is it self charging?

Kramer

Water John wrote: »

I see that Toyota announced, (which I missed) that they have a Solid State Battery (SSB) almost developed.

Last year I read it was predicted in 2025.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33435923/toyota-solid-state-battery-2025/

Now they're saying the early 2020s, which could be 2023/24.
It'll probably be a prototype & meaningless for many years.

I bet Elon is hoping that anyway - didn't he just announce tabless 4680 cylindrical lithium ion batteries, which he's hoping to be mass producing, in the billions, in the next 3 years? Same old tech for Tesla then, tweaked.

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

is it self charging?

Only if you start at the top of a hill, or put petrol in it :pac:.

timsey tiger

Water John wrote: »

I see that Toyota announced, (which I missed) that they have a Solid State Battery (SSB) almost developed. It has 2.5 times the density of Li-ion and can be recharged from 0- 100% in 10 minutes. Anybody have any info on this?
This article turned up in an agri forum I follow:

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/could-toyotas-latest-battery-announcement-change-tractors-forever/

Not at the proto type stage yet, that is expected in teased for in 2021.

Be careful, Toyota bad

the_amazing_raisin

timsey tiger wrote: »

Not at the proto type stage yet, that is expected in teased for in 2021.

Be careful, Toyota bad

Do you remember the days when teasers were for movies and companies didn't put out BS 'scientific' articles to make it seem like they had some big advancement just around the corner?

We didn't know how easy we had it...

AndyBoBandy

0 to 100% in 10 minutes......

...... because it’s only 5kWh.....

And so do this you need to be driving at 150km/h on the ICE engine...

Kramer

Water John wrote: »

I see that Toyota announced, (which I missed) that they have a Solid State Battery (SSB) almost developed.

Apparently, VW are ahead of the posse with regard to solid state......

https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/8/22158573/quantumscape-solid-state-battery-ev-range-charge-vw

I really don't know who to believe these days - I'll stick with Elon, he seems clued in, with cars making farting sounds etc.