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Child Item

Relationship breakup

Dave46

My girlfriend has decided she wants to break up with me and me to move out, we are not married but we have 2 children together,
I was given the site by my father worth 150000 at the time i got planning for the house solely on my own as she is not from the area (gaeltacht)
We got a joint mortage for 210000 to build and are about 10 years into the mortgage with another 20 years to go. The house is currently valued at 350000. Any advice on where i stand on this issue i work fulltime salary 35000 per year she doesnt work,
Thanks in advance

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MoonUnit75

YellowLead wrote: »

Different rights for cohabitants
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/property_rights_and_the_breakdown_of_a_cohabiting_relationship.html

The 2010 act distinguishes between normal cohabitants and qualified cohabitants. As far as I can see the partner in this case would meet the definition of a qualified cohabitant:
"Only a qualified cohabitant can seek financial orders against the other cohabitant.

A Qualified Cohabitant can also apply to Court for a range of order and reliefs similar to a married couple on separation or divorce. These reliefs would include for maintenance, property adjustment orders, pension adjustment orders, etc."
From http://familylawirelandhq.com/tag/qualified-cohabitants/

TheBoyConor

Yes, qualified co-habitants they are and those are the ones that are effectively equivalent to marriage when it comes to getting a court to decide.

Unqualified cohabitants are those where they are shacked up less than 5 years, or less than 2 years if they have children. Obviously, the OP and his ex-partner are past that threshold with a long time now.

comment

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Yes, qualified co-habitants they are and those are the ones that are effectively equivalent to marriage when it comes to getting a court to decide.

Unqualified cohabitants are those where they are shacked up less than 5 years, or less than 2 years if they have children. Obviously, the OP and his ex-partner are past that threshold with a long time now.

Qualified cohabitants are considered similar to married couples for maintenance but not in relation to the property as set out here (he owns it legally in his sole name). The partner would need to establish an equitable interest through court proceedings.

There is no simple answer to who pays the mortgage and bills going forward and it is based on ability to pay and other factors but be mindful that her actually contributing to the mortgage would assist a future equitable claim in the property.

The OP needs legal advice.

[Deleted User]

The point is, the house is not a family home, and the mother's claim on it as a qualified cohabitant is more tenuous then if they were married.

html6

Typical responses. Advise on money yadda yadda. Speculation on affair yadda yadda. Nobody has suggested the best solution which is to get her back. It could just be her testing you. In which case call her bluff. Implement strict no contact. Only discuss the kids or possible separation arrangements. From now on don't give her an emotional crutch.

Start bettering yourself in all aspects of your life. Professionally, hobbies, money, health.

Be your childrens hero. Be your own hero.

You may come to the realization that you don't want her at all.

Your a man of the Gaeltacht. Start acting like one.

Dtp1979

html6 wrote: »

Typical responses. Advise on money yadda yadda. Speculation on affair yadda yadda. Nobody has suggested the best solution which is to get her back. It could just be her testing you. In which case call her bluff. Implement strict no contact. Only discuss the kids or possible separation arrangements. From now on don't give her an emotional crutch.

Start bettering yourself in all aspects of your life. Professionally, hobbies, money, health.

Be your childrens hero. Be your own hero.

You may come to the realization that you don't want her at all.

Your a man of the Gaeltacht. Start acting like one.

So you’re saying “get her back” in one line then in the next telling him to adhere to strict no contact. Why would he want somebody back if they’re the kind of person that ‘tests’ things with such childish games.

DellyBelly

Who would the children prefer to stay with it? If it was with you it would give you more sway in my opinion and might mean you could stay and she would have to move out of your house. Have you discussed this with the kids?

MoonUnit75

comment wrote: »

Qualified cohabitants are considered similar to married couples for maintenance but not in relation to the property as set out here (he owns it legally in his sole name). The partner would need to establish an equitable interest through court proceedings.

There is no simple answer to who pays the mortgage and bills going forward and it is based on ability to pay and other factors but be mindful that her actually contributing to the mortgage would assist a future equitable claim in the property.

The OP needs legal advice.

Yes, it just means there’s no automatic right to the family/shared home but as a qualified cohabitant the court can decide to split ownership or transfer ownership in their favour as it sees fit, depending on the circumstances.

Dave46

I dont intend on moving out at all im in the spare bedroom and have a room to go into on my own when i get back from work.
I spoje to a solicitor and he advised me to stay and also because we have joint bank account where my wages and her jsa goes he kind of agrees with my 65% for the bills and her 35%.
Need to maybe talk to her this evening about that although not looking forward to it

jimmycrackcorm

DellyBelly wrote: »

Who would the children prefer to stay with it? If it was with you it would give you more sway in my opinion and might mean you could stay and she would have to move out of your house. Have you discussed this with the kids?

I'd imagine that kids love both parents equally...
The op has every right to stay regardless and cannot be put out of his house.

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Yes, it just means there’s no automatic right to the family/shared home but as a qualified cohabitant the court can decide to split ownership or transfer ownership in their favour as it sees fit, depending on the circumstances.

Or the court can decide that the kids get to live there but when they are grown up the property remains solely the husbands. He would have to continue paying the mortgage regardless.

TheBoyConor

Dave46 wrote: »

I dont intend on moving out at all im in the spare bedroom and have a room to go into on my own when i get back from work.
I spoje to a solicitor and he advised me to stay and also because we have joint bank account where my wages and her jsa goes he kind of agrees with my 65% for the bills and her 35%.
Need to maybe talk to her this evening about that although not looking forward to it

You have to be a bit cute in approaching the bills question. If you say 65/35, then she will say no, 80/20. I'd suggest come at it suggesting 50/50. Then if no agreement, offer a compromise of 60/40 and you might a better chance of securing the 65/35.

hello2020

Dave46 wrote: »

I dont intend on moving out at all im in the spare bedroom and have a room to go into on my own when i get back from work.
I spoje to a solicitor and he advised me to stay and also because we have joint bank account where my wages and her jsa goes he kind of agrees with my 65% for the bills and her 35%.
Need to maybe talk to her this evening about that although not looking forward to it

have you thought of recreating the missing spark in your relationship?
may be giving some extra attention to your partner and some pampering may give a new life to your relationship..

TheBoyConor

No. He shouldn't do that. Why would anyone go chasing after someone who rejected them and said they didn't want them anymore. Going after someone like that only pushes them further away anyway, and destroys the self worth of the person doing the chasing.

Besides that, she has made her wishes clear. She no longer wants the relationship. He should accept that and respect her wishes. It is disrespectful and border line controlling behaviour to try to influence or manipulate her around to changing her mind.

It is done.

BronsonTB

Dave46 wrote: »

We have a joint mortgage but only my name on the deeds

Bank own the deeds until mortgage is paid in full no matter who is named on them.

First, do not move out.
Second - Are you on talking terms & can you both come to any agreement over house/kids etc before you go to your solicitors?
Third, book an appointment with family mediation - It's a lot less formal than solicitors & any agreement can then be rubberstamped - Saves you both legal fee money. (Appointments take time as demand is huge for the services so get on the appointment list asap)

Big road ahead but good luck with everything...

hello2020

TheBoyConor wrote: »

No. He shouldn't do that. Why would anyone go chasing after someone who rejected them and said they didn't want them anymore. Going after someone like that only pushes them further away anyway, and destroys the self worth of the person doing the chasing.

Besides that, she has made her wishes clear. She no longer wants the relationship. He should accept that and respect her wishes. It is disrespectful and border line controlling behaviour to try to influence or manipulate her around to changing her mind.

It is done.

i think many female partners like that feeling of wanted/chasing to get some self assurance that their partner still values them (n they r still attractive/young/beautiful etc)

After the break up, one will mostly start the dating process with others so why not put the same effort in your partner of years?

after all she is mother of his kids and there is so much emotional & financial capital invested in this relationship..

[Deleted User]

Dave46 wrote: »

I dont intend on moving out at all im in the spare bedroom and have a room to go into on my own when i get back from work.
I spoje to a solicitor and he advised me to stay and also because we have joint bank account where my wages and her jsa goes he kind of agrees with my 65% for the bills and her 35%.
Need to maybe talk to her this evening about that although not looking forward to it

Good luck with it. My advice is don't play games.

Maybe have some facts and figures written down, and don't forget to include the value of child benefit when making your calculations.

Though it is usually paid to the mother, it is part of the combined family income and as such should be paid into the joint account and included when calculating contributions towards bills / expenses going forward.

TheBoyConor

hello2020 wrote: »

i think many female partners like that feeling of wanted/chasing to get some self assurance that their partner still values them (n they r still attractive/young/beautiful etc)

After the break up, one will mostly start the dating process with others so why not put the same effort in your partner of years?

after all she is mother of his kids and there is so much emotional & financial capital invested in this relationship..

Except she has already stated that she doesn't want him anymore - she ended the relationship.

If she wants to start dating, then good luck to her. he could also get a new girlfriend if he were minded to do so.
All the more reason to stay in the house at all costs - she could have a new jockey moved into that house in a flash if he were to suit her and vacate.

I'd discourage mutual agreements made outside of the advice of a mediation service or solicitors. Any mutual agreement made solely between them without the advice and oversight of a competent third party could come back to bite him. She could come back arguing that he coerced or bullied her into the agreement and that it was an agreement that left her hard done by.
With the input and oversight of a mediation service or solicitors, you avoid that pitfall for the most part.

road_high

OP I'm so glad you reached out here and got some soft advice- some of it excellent here.
Do NOT let this woman walk all over you as others have intimated she has all the signs of it.
Especially agree about the non working- seen these precious little princesses all before- men are for working, providing and "keeping" them. You already earn a relatively modest salary yourself, unfortuantely you'd very much struggle out on your own- rent, bills etc on another place. Plus keep her in a mortgage you pay for? Come off it. Get real here not happening and cannot happen. You deserve some bit of comfort and happiness too- you're the one working here.

Stop contributing to that joint account immediately. If another arrangement is needed for bills then they are all to come through you. Need to get tough with these people or they will walk on you.
Also cannot emphasise enough- stay where you are. She'd like nothing more to get you out and still pay the mortgage. Time she learned a few home truths.

[Deleted User]

road_high wrote: »

Especially agree about the non working- seen these precious little princesses all before- men are for working, providing and "keeping" them.

The mother is in receipt of Job Seekers Allowance - which means she either worked and is claiming stamps, and/or is job seeking.

[Deleted User]

road_high wrote: »

Stop contributing to that joint account immediately. If another arrangement is needed for bills then they are all to come through you. Need to get tough with these people or they will walk on you.

Do NOT do this. Cutting of financial support without an agreement in place is considered financial abuse and is considered a form of domestic violence.

Only follow this advice if you want to immediately go nuclear with your ex and escalate this into an all out war, which you WILL lose.

You do not want to put yourself on the back foot in court with a judge, for an allegation of controlling behaviour and financial abuse.

road_high

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do NOT do this. Cutting of financial support without an agreement in place is considered financial abuse and is considered a form of domestic violence.

Only follow this advice if you want to immediately go nuclear with your ex and escalate this into an all out war, which you WILL lose.

You do not want to put yourself on the back foot in court with a judge, for an allegation of controlling behaviour and financial abuse.

I didn’t say cut off all financial support- I said bills to come through the op. Which is a different thing.
I understand the partner already has some social welfare income. She can use that for personal expenditure. It’s not really acceptable that he contributes part of his salary for it it be used for personal spending by the other party.
Understand the op has sought legal advice on this aspect specifically in any case

[Deleted User]

road_high wrote: »

I didn’t say cut off all financial support- I said bills to come through the op. Which is a different thing.
I understand the partner already has some social welfare income. She can use that for personal expenditure. It’s not really acceptable that he contributes part of his salary for it it be used for personal spending by the other party.
Understand the op has sought legal advice on this aspect specifically in any case

It's the nuclear option. It will be seen as controlling behaviour when nothing has been negotiated or agreed between them yet. Any changes to how household finances bills are managed need to be mediated - family mediation can help achieve this.

But just stopping contributing to the joint account, and demanding all bills go through him, is not the way to go. It will make the situation more acrimonious and will not do him any favours with a judge in the long run.

TheBoyConor

Exactly. He'd only be shooting himself in the foot.

It is exactly why I am recommending that he goes to her and say that they both get proper advice from separate family law solicitors, and then go to a mediation service to get the main terms of an agreement drawn up, then have their own solicitors review that and advise of any amendments. Then they can sign the agreement and he can have some sort of confidence that it won't come back to bite him in the arse.
Obviously it will cost a bit of money doing it that way, but you see everything is overseen, reviewed and vetted by competent third parties before the agreement is made. That is the value in it.

This craic of sitting her down at the kitchen table on a wednesday night WITH NO WITNESSES and writing an ad hoc agreement on the inside of a corn flakes box is just plain dumb advice. It is literally asking to be challenged at a future date when someone wispers in her ear about getting more. Next come the accusations of being pressured and bullied into signing this agreement, signed it under duress etc. The next piece of the jigsaw is that she only signed it because she felt that she was in fear of him if she didn't sign it. And if he cuts off paying into the joint account, then that would absolutely support her suggestions of agreeing only under duress.

Tread carefully. and remember, while she might be nice now, that could all change in the blink of an eye if she doesn't get what she wants. ........."hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"

Oldandtired

Good afternoon,, for the op there is a lot of good advice been given here , but be wary many people carry various chips on their shoulders as a result of their own experience, I certainly do
However there is little doubt that once some asks the partner to leave etc then the relationship is over and the gloves come off ,, perhaps it should be best to consider the next step as a negotiation , be that through mediation, lawyer negotiations or in front of a judge. , the trick for the op is to get himself into the best position for his and his children’s sake ,, assume and prepare and plan for the worst case senario ,, I have been there and I refused to even move out of the bedroom, and let’s jus say things got vicious and now it’s over and I am in the home and have 50% access ,, toot and nail don’t give an inch unless you get two inches , keep a daily diary and stay very calm

TheBoyConor

Old and tired, how did you manage to avoid not even leaving the bedroom? Was it just pure stubborness on your part? How was is received?
Was it not weird having to share a bedroom.
Would ye talk or interact in anyway or was it like ships passing in the night all the time?

I would be mostly worried about the potential for suggestions of allegations if i was to remain in the bedroom. God knows what allegations of sexual assault there could be!

Skipduke

What are the chances of her getting a council house? Single mother, no income. Presumably, this would be a reasonable option if you get to keep the property and she gets her own (cheap) space.

I hope she doesn't expect you to move out. Get legal advice asap. There are guys out there that would be glad to move into your cottage, with you pay the bills. The only fair thing in this situation is if she moves out and you continue to pay maintenance for the kids.

[Deleted User]

Little to no chance of assistance with housing. At least, not until an agreement is reached and the bank agrees to remove her name from the mortgage on the house, which the OP says was taken out as a joint mortgage in both their names. They are ten years into the mortgage, and she has contributed towards it. She has worked at some point outside the home, and also while some may not recognise work in the home taking care of children as "contributing", the courts will.

In any event, the bank will most likely refuse to take her name of the mortgage until the OP can prove he earns enough to cover it by himself (subject to the normal lending rules).

raclle

road_high wrote: »

I didn’t say cut off all financial support- I said bills to come through the op. Which is a different thing.
I understand the partner already has some social welfare income. She can use that for personal expenditure. It’s not really acceptable that he contributes part of his salary for it it be used for personal spending by the other party.
Understand the op has sought legal advice on this aspect specifically in any case

You mean have the OPs wages go into a separate personal account and then transfer x amount into the joint account? That I would agree with if she's spending like crazy out of the joint account.

Obviously there is a lot of speculation in this thread because we don't know all the facts. Hopefully once they have a talk it can be settled without lawyers and courts. When they get mentioned people start worrying about the legal costs. Its a tough situation but it shouldn't have to go that far if they put their kids first and sort it out like adults.

The other issue is living in the same family home albeit separately. I can only imagine the tension that would bring especially if the other person wants to move on. Also how would it effect the kids if they are old enough to understand what is going on? And then of course you have the financial aspect of not being able to move out.

Skipduke

start charging her rent if she wants to live there alone while you pay the mortgage haha. play with fire and you might get burnt

road_high

Skipduke wrote: »

start charging her rent if she wants to live there alone while you pay the mortgage haha. play with fire and you might get burnt

Bad idea- she'd just stop paying it and never leave! Better go down the legal route as advised i think