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replace wall switch with smart switch

bittihuduga

hi
i have quite a few xiaomi smart bulbs in the house which work well with my xiaomi gateway and Homeassistant.
i also have few ceiling lights that cannot be replaced via smart bulbs.
i was thinking of replacing wall light switch with a smart wall switch
something like this which are TUYA
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001193120949.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6f136d22tf1dAV
i have read its not easy our out of the box to connect TUYA parts with HA.
any advice where to start for replacing wall switch and make my existing ceiling lights smart?

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DubLad69

What would be the most reliable brand for a smart switch? I don't really mind if it's a pain to set up, but if I have to keep reconnecting them to the app or Google then id rather not have them.

Preferably ones that work with IFTTT

I'm thinking of replacing the whole house and currently use Google home.

emaherx

NewMan1982 wrote: »

Thanks for the help. I wonder why Irish retailers don’t sell them? It seems like a better solution than paying Philips (for example) 25 a bulb.

Plenty of Irish retailers sell smart switches.
Powercity
Harvey Norman
Screwfix
Are the first 3 I see from a quick search.

They all have different brands though are you looking for something in particular?

emaherx

DubLad69 wrote: »

What would be the most reliable brand for a smart switch? I don't really mind if it's a pain to set up, but if I have to keep reconnecting them to the app or Google then id rather not have them.

Preferably ones that work with IFTTT

I'm thinking of replacing the whole house and currently use Google home.

https://shop.shelly.cloud/

I use the Shelly in wall switches. They work with IFTTT although I don't personally use that service I just use with HA. They are small reliable and use your existing switch to control so it just looks like a normal switch.

NewMan1982

emaherx wrote: »

Plenty of Irish retailers sell smart switches.
Powercity
Harvey Norman
Screwfix
Are the first 3 I see from a quick search.

They all have different brands though are you looking for something in particular?

I am new to this and did a good bit of Googling last night. A lot of the switches I found were either a weird shape (not typical light switch shape) or were wireless which I don’t understand. I assume a wireless switch isn’t replacing the traditional light switch.

I want a light switch that can work with either Alexa or google and that I can control with an app from outside the house.

This is the first smart appliance I am going to buy. Next will be more light switches and then smart plugs. Followed by security at a later date.

emaherx

If you want a light switch that looks like a light switch, then I'd recommend the in wall switches, which are less likely to be found in retailers here alright. Think of the in wall switch as an upgrade to your current switch it will fit behind and be wired in the circuit as a replacement, then the current switch gets wired to the in wall switch as an input . This way nothing changes for how your current switch looks.

I've used Tuya and Sonoff switches, but Shelly are by far the best for integrating with other systems.
https://shelly.cloud/support/compatibility/

You do need to know how your current switches are wired before you decide which model you need.

grogi

emaherx wrote: »

If you want a light switch that looks like a light switch, then I'd recommend the in wall switches, which are less likely to be found in retailers here alright.

https://shelly.cloud/support/compatibility/

Do any of the shelly relays work without neutral?

-- edit 11:06

Yes, they do. 1L or dimmer 2 for instance.

DubLad69

emaherx wrote: »

If you want a light switch that looks like a light switch, then I'd recommend the in wall switches, which are less likely to be found in retailers here alright. Think of the in wall switch as an upgrade to your current switch it will fit behind and be wired in the circuit as a replacement, then the current switch gets wired to the in wall switch as an input . This way nothing changes for how your current switch looks.

I've used Tuya and Sonoff switches, but Shelly are by far the best for integrating with other systems.
https://shelly.cloud/support/compatibility/

You do need to know how your current switches are wired before you decide which model you need.

Looking at those am I right in saying that this doesn't replace my current switch, rather it goes inside my switch?

emaherx

DubLad69 wrote: »

Looking at those am I right in saying that this doesn't replace my current switch, rather it goes inside my switch?

Yes, that is correct. they are very small, but will fit behind a standard switch. Might be an issue if you have a shallower than normal box in the wall.

NewMan1982

Here is the back of my hall light switch. I don’t think any of those wires are neutral.
It has 3 switches. One for porch, one for hall and one for landing.

There isn’t a whole lot of room behind the switch so I think replacing the switch would be the better option rather than add a part to it.

grogi

NewMan1982 wrote: »

Here is the back of my hall light switch. I don’t think any of those wires are neutral.
It has 3 switches. One for porch, one for hall and one for landing.

There isn’t a whole lot of room behind the switch so I think replacing the switch would be the better option rather than add a part to it.

You won't fit a smart switch into that backbox either. What you need to do first is to replace the backbox to something deeper: 35 or even 45mm.

emaherx

Inside the light fitting/ ceiling rose is an option also for placement of those types of switch.

just google "shelly ceiling rose install" should be plenty of videos.

edit:
Also if any of those lighting circuits have more than one switch, like landing, switch upstairs and downstairs then this adds a little complexity regardless of the switch type that you go for. Although in this situation a ceiling rose install is easier anyway, plus more houses are likely to have live and neutral at the rose than at the switch.

NewMan1982

emaherx wrote: »

Inside the light fitting/ ceiling rose is an option also for placement of those types of switch.

just google "shelly ceiling rose install" should be plenty of videos.

edit:
Also if any of those lighting circuits have more than one switch, like landing, switch upstairs and downstairs then this adds a little complexity regardless of the switch type that you go for. Although in this situation a ceiling rose install is easier anyway, plus more houses are likely to have live and neutral at the rose than at the switch.

thanks for all the answers so far. The ceiling rose option definately looks like the best option for most of my lights in the house as i think i have very shallow back boxes.

next question is how do the ceiling rose options connect with the HA app or Alexa, do they need a hub?

iba

NewMan1982 wrote: »

Thanks for the help. I wonder why Irish retailers don’t sell them? It seems like a better solution than paying Philips (for example) 25 a bulb.

I don’t have a google assistant or an Alexa yet so I’ll need a switch that’s compatible with both.

The first switch I’ll replace is the one in the hall. That has no neural wire and controls 3 lights. The porch, the hall and the landing.

I would like the option of controlling the lights while away from the house too.

IMO Philips are overpriced. You can find plenty of bulbs for much less on Ali. I understand there is even one for sale in Dealz atm and also Lidl had some the other week.

Here is a 3 gang no neutral wire switch:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000191335997.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dmOF529

NewMan1982

I've just bought 4 by Shelly 1 to install in my ceiling roses. Fun and games about to start

iba

NewMan1982 wrote: »

Here is the back of my hall light switch. I don’t think any of those wires are neutral.
It has 3 switches. One for porch, one for hall and one for landing.

There isn’t a whole lot of room behind the switch so I think replacing the switch would be the better option rather than add a part to it.

I bet you have a concrete wall directly behind that box thus its small depth size.

iba

emaherx wrote: »

Inside the light fitting/ ceiling rose is an option also for placement of those types of switch.

just google "shelly ceiling rose install" should be plenty of videos.

edit:
Also if any of those lighting circuits have more than one switch, like landing, switch upstairs and downstairs then this adds a little complexity regardless of the switch type that you go for. Although in this situation a ceiling rose install is easier anyway, plus more houses are likely to have live and neutral at the rose than at the switch.

For the three gang Tuya switch no neutral, which light fitting does the capacitor go into. Hall, porch or landing light are my options?

Thanks

emaherx

NewMan1982 wrote: »

thanks for all the answers so far. The ceiling rose option definately looks like the best option for most of my lights in the house as i think i have very shallow back boxes.

next question is how do the ceiling rose options connect with the HA app or Alexa, do they need a hub?

No need for a hub for Shelly as they are WiFi.

emaherx

iba wrote: »

For the three gang Tuya switch no neutral, which light fitting does the capacitor go into. Hall, porch or landing light are my options?

Thanks

I've never used the no neutral version myself.

I'd imagine one of the switch inputs will be regarded as the supply input for the whole device and this will dictate which fitting gets the capacitor.

Should be in the manual when it arrives.

iba

emaherx wrote: »

I've never used the no neutral version myself.

I'd imagine one of the switch inputs will be regarded as the supply input for the whole device and this will dictate which fitting gets the capacitor.

Should be in the manual when it arrives.

That makes sense thanks.

Clarabel

What I'd like :
2 Motion detectors to automatically turn on three hallway lights. (Motion D at top and bottom of stairs).

What I have.
Traditional wiring with neutral wire. 3 landings
Each landing turns on the lights from the previous landing. The middle landing has a 3 gang switch for all three landings
I can't replace the bulbs as smart bulbs cause the fitting is too small

What I assume will work
Replace middle landing 3 gang with smart switch.
(Once the 2/3 way switches are left on and never touched this should leave the circuit closed and not impact the smart switch)
Add battery powered motion detectors.

Questions:
I already have hue in the house. Will I be able to use one of the tuuya or sonoff switches with a hue motion sensor

Which brand should I be considering?

The sonoff looks like it was both switch and motion but doesn't indicate if I can use those together to get what I need.

I also assume if I my hue bridge won't allow connection to any of the suggested switches in this thread?

emaherx

Clarabel wrote: »

What I assume will work
Replace middle landing 3 gang with smart switch.
(Once the 2/3 way switches are left on and never touched this should leave the circuit closed and not impact the smart switch)
Add battery powered motion detectors.

That sounds right, but the possibility of someone turning off the other switches is high. Installing one of the in wall switches inside the ceiling rose if possible would remove the issue. shelly are the smallest I've come across so best suited

Clarabel wrote: »

Questions:
I already have hue in the house. Will I be able to use one of the tuuya or sonoff switches with a hue motion sensor
beleive
Which brand should I be considering?

The sonoff looks like it was both switch and motion but doesn't indicate if I can use those together to get what I need.

I also assume if I my hue bridge won't allow connection to any of the suggested switches in this thread?

Sonoff or Tuya or Shelly will not work directly with hue as they are WiFi devices, but the likes of Home Assistant can tie them all together. Personally I'd avoid the Tuya ones unless you are happy with them needing an active internet connection to work or fancy a bit more of a challenge circumventing that.

Hue I believe uses Zigbee so finding Zigbee compliant switches would work best with your current setup. I don't have any experience of Hue or Zigbee so don't have much more to offer there.

BoardsMember

Hi - we've got Hue all over the place. Has anyone got any good links for "tradional looking/classical style" single, double, triple gang switches that can be used to "turn on" hue bulbs? i.e the actual wiring would be wired to be always on. Something like the attached pic. Ideally if they also supported dimmer, but not a requirement if the "on" was linked to a scene that had it fully on/bright.

We're doing a refurb job, including re-wire, so have the ability to put in whatever back box, neutral wire as needed.

iba

BoardsMember wrote: »

Hi - we've got Hue all over the place. Has anyone got any good links for "tradional looking/classical style" single, double, triple gang switches that can be used to "turn on" hue bulbs? i.e the actual wiring would be wired to be always on. Something like the attached pic. Ideally if they also supported dimmer, but not a requirement if the "on" was linked to a scene that had it fully on/bright.

We're doing a refurb job, including re-wire, so have the ability to put in whatever back box, neutral wire as needed.

There is no pic attached. You could look up Aqara, Tuya, Shelly or Sonoff switches. Some require neutral wire and some dont.

BoardsMember

iba wrote: »

There is no pic attached. You could look up Aqara, Tuya, Shelly or Sonoff switches. Some require neutral wire and some dont.

Sorry (worst) pic (ever) attached....thanks for the tips. Is the back box separate from these switches?

iba

BoardsMember wrote: »

Sorry (worst) pic (ever) attached....thanks for the tips. Is the back box separate from these switches?

I have not seen any that look like that.

When I replaced mine, I just used the back box that was already in the wall. They dont come with back boxes afaik.

https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20210215062901&SearchText=smart+switches

BoardsMember

iba wrote: »

I have not seen any that look like that.

When I replaced mine, I just used the back box that was already in the wall. They dont come with back boxes afaik.

https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20210215062901&SearchText=smart+switches

What I am gathering is that it is not possible to make a traditional switch into a smart switch. It needs to be a smart switch to start with. If this is the case there is going to be a row at home. If I get my way now, its a once off row - we'll put in smart switches now, despite them not looking retro/brass. If I don't get my way, we'll put in regular brass fittings, and there will be a row every time someone turns off the switch.

emaherx

BoardsMember wrote: »

What I am gathering is that it is not possible to make a traditional switch into a smart switch. It needs to be a smart switch to start with. If this is the case there is going to be a row at home. If I get my way now, its a once off row - we'll put in smart switches now, despite them not looking retro/brass. If I don't get my way, we'll put in regular brass fittings, and there will be a row every time someone turns off the switch.

Of course it's possible.
You want an in wall switch, it will fit behind whatever existing switch you have.

Just Google Zigbee in wall switch.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/iolloi-LED-Dimmer-Switch-trailing-compatible-guarantee/dp/B08FLD1SK4/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?adgrpid=118856544847&dchild=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA1KiBBhCcARIsAPWqoSqNO3WhC24Z8mDKF7b5LKvVXJyMKJJw1FOFeqGLkZsb5Iv8V99dPx8aAuIUEALw_wcB&hvadid=486410616926&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=20487&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=13018778752285097161&hvtargid=kwd-325310094474&hydadcr=8706_1760654&keywords=hue+zigbee+switch&qid=1613411344&sr=8-3&tag=hydrukspg-21

BoardsMember

Please bear with me on this, trying to get my head around what I need to buy and how it will work.....below is an outline of a typical scenario that I have working welll now for controlling my hue bulbs in hall (multiple bulbs in the room), landing (multiple bulbs in the room) and porch (single bulb in the room) from a single point, I'm struggling to be certain how it works well when I take out the hue dimmer switch:

Current approach:
- Hue smart/dimmer switch in the hall and in the landing
- Programmed based on 1/2/3/4/5 click to turn on 1 or more of the rooms, and dim same
- Works well

Post re-wiring, we will still have the same hue bulb set-up, but herself doesn't want a modern/plastic dimmer switch. She wants a traditional type brass plated switch.

I can get an in-wall switch, but I'm not sure how this interacts with the wall switch in front. Can they be set up to work with a 3 gang switch? In which case it seems simple. Each switch controls one of the 3 rooms, on/off. If not, what would my options be?

emaherx

BoardsMember wrote: »

Please bear with me on this, trying to get my head around what I need to buy and how it will work.....below is an outline of a typical scenario that I have working welll now for controlling my hue bulbs in hall (multiple bulbs in the room), landing (multiple bulbs in the room) and porch (single bulb in the room) from a single point, I'm struggling to be certain how it works well when I take out the hue dimmer switch:

Current approach:
- Hue smart/dimmer switch in the hall and in the landing
- Programmed based on 1/2/3/4/5 click to turn on 1 or more of the rooms, and dim same
- Works well

Post re-wiring, we will still have the same hue bulb set-up, but herself doesn't want a modern/plastic dimmer switch. She wants a traditional type brass plated switch.

I can get an in-wall switch, but I'm not sure how this interacts with the wall switch in front. Can they be set up to work with a 3 gang switch? In which case it seems simple. Each switch controls one of the 3 rooms, on/off. If not, what would my options be?

Yes the in wall switch is wired to replace the switch. The 3 gang switch is wired to an input of the in wall switch, so you can use any old dumb switch and make it work as a smart switch and still a manual switch.

Obviously this new switch will turn on and off the light circuit making some of the functionality of your hue bulbs redundant.

And for a 3 gang switch you need a 3 gang in wall switch if you want to make all of the gangs smart.

dam099

emaherx wrote: »

Yes the in wall switch is wired to replace the switch. The 3 gang switch is wired to an input of the in wall switch, so you can use any old dumb switch and make it work as a smart switch and still a manual switch.

Obviously this new switch will turn on and off the light circuit making some of the functionality of your hue bulbs redundant.

And for a 3 gang switch you need a 3 gang in wall switch if you want to make all of the gangs smart.

Hue look to be launching their own version, not sure when (or if) it will be available here.

https://hueblog.com/2021/01/14/the-most-important-answers-about-the-new-philips-hue-wall-switch-module/