blanch152 wrote: » This is the bit that nobody seems to get. Someone has to lose out if social welfare rates, income tax rates or public service pay rates are different. If social welfare rates and public service pay rates are increased in the area where they are lower, there has to be an increase in taxes on those earning and they lose out. If public service pay and social welfare are cut in the areas where they are higher, public servants and those on social welfare lose out. Either way, there is a bill, and somebody pays. Unless Sinn Fein and their supporters wake up to this, there is no hope. For a start, they need to work towards harmonisation in advance. Pushing for water charges in the South to match those in the North would be one idea. Looking at replacing LPT with the domestic charges in the North or vice versa would be another. Pushing for harmonisation of social welfare would be another policy they could promote. If the lads on here were arguing for things like that instead of pushing the idea of magic money trees, "investment" and taxing rainbows and unicorns, there might be some credibility to their arguments.
blanch152 wrote: » People will be discriminated against for the length of the transition period as you have just admitted. ...
Bowie wrote: » Like a transition period?
Bowie wrote: » What you missed or intentionally left out is welfare rates are amended and set based on cost of living etc.. This will continue. Welfare rates and other allowances will be amended as they are in every budget. Water charges? Is the worry some DUP crony might get the sweet deal?
blanch152 wrote: » Nope, not like a transition period. Start right now, and publish policies towards harmonisation, show a serious attitude to unity. Right now, there is a complete lack of credibility to arguments for unity from Sinn Fein and their social media supporters, because they are not prepared to work the hard road towards it.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Oh you really acquitted those responsible for our national debt there.
padd b1975 wrote: » Not my intention to acquit anyone Francis, quite the opposite in fact.
blanch152 wrote: » Nope, not like a transition period. Start right now, and publish policies towards harmonisation, show a serious attitude to unity. Right now, there is a complete lack of credibility to arguments for unity from Sinn Fein and their social media supporters, because they are not prepared to work the hard road towards it. Welfare rates North and South are out of sync, water charges and domestic charges the same. While some things have to be left to Westminister (income tax), SF, if they had any balls, would be putting forward a policy North and South to move the things that can be controlled closer together.
a very cool kid wrote: » See that's grand but in Unification we're straight away into a big current account deficit without either cuts in social welfare payments or increased VAT or income taxes. So you're borrowing to pay the bills, not build an extension or put yourself through college etc
jm08 wrote: » Are we? Straight away we're actually into attracting FDI in. For example, Boeing sells a lot of their stuff to RyanAir (one of their biggest customers). How about incentivising them developing a manufacturing plant in NI in the country which has one of its biggest customers? Then there is all the pharma companies who could open up plants in NI to compliment their existing plants here already? I'd like a break down from you as to what the deficit would actually be and an explaination as to how new FDI wouldn't have us back in credit within 5/6 years?
Bowie wrote: » So no transition period. I disagree. Even when doing a currency change over we have a transition period. It allows people time to climatise. Hard road? Some gave their lives Blanch. All the nay sayers are doing is citing personal financial cost. I can't claim to know the details of SF, as I don't speak for them. You do know Coveney and Kenny are not Shinners? One of the big barriers we have to having open discussion is FF/FG don't want to give any legitimacy to SF they don't have to. Like yourself they are equating discussing a united Ireland with helping SF IMO. SF don't own a united Ireland. They are a political party openly in favour of a UI. That's it really. Welfare rates could be put in sync. When a new government comes in at any time they amend welfare rates. If FF/FG and the like were genuine they would put it on the agenda for government not get all teary eyed as they near retirement.
a very cool kid wrote: » I actually broke it down earlier on the thread but off the top of my head: ROI Govt Income is 60 BN roughly (expenditure roughly the same level). NI Govt Deficit is 12 BN roughly That's before you harmonise payments between jurisdictions. Politically it's unrealistic to say you're cutting, for example pensions in ROI to NI rates so NI pensions etc will increase - increasing this 12 BN deficit. As with any major investment you have to take into account worse case scenario, how would you close this gap as things stand? You can't rely on an economic miracle in NI, beyond the name over the door what will have changed there to attract all this FDI? Groundwork for large scale FDI in ROI started about 20 years before we saw any real effect to the public finances. What do you do if you have another global crash in the meantime? As another poster said above if we're serious about a UI we need to exert soft power - i.e. Integrate the region as seamlessly as possible as things stand. Maybe then when it is in practice one nation on one land we really have a chance at a UI.
jm08 wrote: » You must not have got the memo from HQ Blanch!Colin Harvey @cjhumanrights ‘Private polling carried out by Fine Gael and Sinn Féin before Christmas show it ranking now as the second or third most important issue.’
a very cool kid wrote: » I actually broke it down earlier on the thread but off the top of my head: ROI Govt Income is 60 BN roughly (expenditure roughly the same level). NI Govt Deficit is 12 BN roughly
That's before you harmonise payments between jurisdictions. Politically it's unrealistic to say you're cutting, for example pensions in ROI to NI rates so NI pensions etc will increase - increasing this 12 BN deficit.
As with any major investment you have to take into account worse case scenario, how would you close this gap as things stand?
You can't rely on an economic miracle in NI, beyond the name over the door what will have changed there to attract all this FDI?
Groundwork for large scale FDI in ROI started about 20 years before we saw any real effect to the public finances. What do you do if you have another global crash in the meantime?
As another poster said above if we're serious about a UI we need to exert soft power - i.e. Integrate the region as seamlessly as possible as things stand. Maybe then when it is in practice one nation on one land we really have a chance at a UI.
blanch152 wrote: » Nobody asked anyone to give their life for a united Ireland, and neither should they have. Nobody asked anyone to take a life for a united Ireland, but some thugs did.
Bowie wrote: » Very simplistic take there. Pointing out people put blood sweat an tears into dealing with and tackling living in the north since partition. You suggested people weren't willing to take the 'hard road'. Correcting you.
jm08 wrote: » I have every confidence in the IDA in bringing in FDI into Northern Ireland.
blanch152 wrote: » This is the bit that nobody seems to get. Unless Sinn Fein and their supporters wake up to this, there is no hope. For a start, they need to work towards harmonisation in advance. Pushing for water charges in the South to match those in the North would be one idea. Looking at replacing LPT with the domestic charges in the North or vice versa would be another. Pushing for harmonisation of social welfare would be another policy they could promote. If the lads on here were arguing for things like that instead of pushing the idea of magic money trees, "investment" and taxing rainbows and unicorns, there might be some credibility to their arguments.
blanch152 wrote: » Had a good laugh at that letter. Asking the question as to what logic the SoS has used not to call a referendum, I would assume the response would be something along the lines of "apart from the bleeding obvious, what else do you need?"
jm08 wrote: » Not sure what you are talking about there. My post referred to a poll that Fine Gael took before Xmas which said that a UI is now the second or third most important issue among voters (presumably after health & housing). Did you have a good laugh as well from that poll in late December that Sinn Fein is now the most popular party in Ireland?https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40194033.html
blanch152 wrote: » That wasn't the hard road, the hard road was the one taken by John Hume and Seamus Mallon, staying peaceful and not resorting to violence.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Nobody expected 80 years of a sectarian bigoted state's action to be ignored by a state that had the Proclamation at the heart of its birth either.
smurgen wrote: » Blanch. FFG were in power when thousands of children died in mother and child homes and that report was out today. You're so concerned about death I'm wondering why I didn't see you comment on that today. Or the brutality and neglect overseen by the government and institutions at those times.
blanch152 wrote: » Once you confirm you agree with me on the point made about the road taken by John Hume.............
NovemberWren wrote: » A most interesting post. And maybe this just shows that S.F. have actually just been deliberately giving a wrong impression in the south. An impression of gauche, uncomprehending, politic neophytes; and that serves as a cover for their pre-meditated army thugishness to the poorer locals that they manage to extract votes from.
