Enquiring wrote: » Oh dear. When all else fails, the old favourites that have been busted multiple times over are dragged out. This isn't just a one off team. Dublin have won about 100 titles across all disciplines post funding, were they all just one off greatest teams of all time? Population isn't the main issue, it's the millions upon millions of euros that you've been told about. Dublin have purchased land recently, you may have heard of spawell and hollystown golf club? They have other land also and already have a number of pitches to cater for the 4 counties. Yes, other counties looked for funding and were denied. I could go on but I think I'll just make one post and put it in my signature to direct people to who use the same old busted myths. Just on your last point though, it's absolutely hilarious. Cap out expecting your cut? John Bailey went running to Bertie Ahern to beg for money, Dublin have been handed millions upon millions of euros to implement a plan that was drawn up for them as they were too incompetent to do anything themselves. Through the plan, the finance and the hiring of highly paid officers to implement the plan, Dublin increased their success across the board. Consequently, their sponsorship grew off the back of the success. Dublin have been handed so much that they don't even bother with going to the effort of fundraising like every other county has to do because it's spoon fed to them. Also, it's noted that once again you have no response to the huge finance in Dublin GAA. Throwing out the old, failed excuses tells me that you know it's wrong. You know Dublin are operating at a professional level in an amateur sport. You can't or won't admit to it, that's your decision but those of us who care about the health of Gaelic games can't let it continue.
tritium wrote: » You really are some chancer. Let me be really clear on what I’ve claimed-What I’ve claimed and what you can’t refute is that there’s an enormous sum of games development money that you can’t account for the allocation of. You can’t apportion it to dublin either because thelistee dublin spend already includes the exact same heading!! I’ve claimed that the rest of Leinster has a level of games development personnel that couldn’t be paid for from the county allocations alone. I’ve also provided the numbers to show that I’ve claimed that you can’t give the actual amount of money each county has benefitted from for games development and that the county allocation doesn’t do this- both are demonstrably true. What that means is that you’ve quite deliberately taken a set of figures and spun them to paint dublin funding in the worst light, much like a number of hack journalists have.
tritium wrote: » You say the dublin clubs aren’t being punished but I think you’ll find most would disagree. Thankfully the wishes of yourself don’t hold a lot of weight. You see there’s a certain honour playing for a team like dublin, an appeal that’s driven a group of young lads currently to be the greatest team of all time. Playing for dunnlaoghairevrathdown doesn’t have that appeal I’m afraid. By your logic the only fair solution is to split every county into blocks of about 30k to match leitrims population. After all that would be rewarding all the clubs in every county since more of their players could play inter county right? It would also fix over 100 years of imbalance in the GAA, which you seem to care about greatly so you must be in favour And where will you get space etc for these dublin teams given the challenges in that respect dublin already faces. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but we don’t have the space of Mayo or Kerry. And the space we have costs a hell of a lot more Did anyone else look to part fund additional coaches. Did any clubs outside dublin have to sit with the money burning a hole in their pocket. My recollection is too many were laughing at dublin for their “unleash the blue wave’ plan back then.You’ve already mentioned how some dublin clubs even went and hired their own coaches. Why can’t clubs elsewhere do that, possibly on a pooled basis. How about instead if finance is such an issue the other counties try to maximise their wealth properly first? For example with sponsorship like cork just managed? It seems far better than just sitting with a cap out expecting your cut
Enquiring wrote: » You have loads of questions but you never have any answers. To pay for the rest of the coaches, Dublin receive money from the government and the GAA. They have received about 25 million since 2002 to do this. On top of that, clubs pay half the wages of coaches so that takes it to 50 million since 2002 or thereabouts. Now here is the important part. This was a scheme for Dublin GAA only! No other county had the option to part fund coaches, it was only available for Dublin clubs. No one has said Dublin clubs should be punished, they're not going to be punished. In fact, as part of their new county, players at underage and senior would now have a far greater chance of playing inter county hurling and football. Splitting Dublin advantages clubs in Dublin!! This has to happen also because not only does Dublin have the largest population by far, it has the wealth. 4 counties would not only easily survive but they'd thrive. The alternative is to let the current situation continue where you have a county spending 3.8 million a year on games development, 2 million on salaries and 1.5 million on team preparations. It's just not feasible to let that continue.
tritium wrote: » When you say from else where do you mean the half that the dublin clubs pay by themselves or do you mean from their county allocation. What does the dublin allocation cover under deployment of personell? What does the games development allocation cover under the same heading? Should dublin clubs be penalised or applauded for putting their hands in their own pockets to improve the coaching? If they pay for it themselves should it be counted as part of their funding? Do clubs outside dublin pay for their coaches?, if not why not?
Enquiring wrote: » We've already gone over this a number of times. The Leinster council provides money for coaches for all of Leinster. They also provide money for schools and colleges, cúl camps, development projects etc. This is for every county in Leinster. The money for coaching provided Leinster counties with enough for between 2 to 6 coaches. This has gone up for some counties in the past few years. Dublin then get the money from elsewhere to pay for the rest of theirs. It's the same in all provinces. The provincial council's provide money for coaches. All counties have had under 6 coaches to develop hurling and football within the county they're appointed to. All counties except 1.
tritium wrote: » I’m not trying to claim anything, I got the 200k from your figures You’re not saying your figures don’t give the full picture are you? Maybe you’d like to give us a correct breakdown? Maybe you could do the same for all the years you’ve given?
Enquiring wrote: » This is really dishonest stuff. You're trying to claim that money for primary schools, secondary schools, universities and all development officers were for every county in Leinster except Dublin. You have been asked to provide proof for this but have provided zero evidence.
tritium wrote: » Tbh it’s hard to argue given the number of people to be reached for games development that dublin historically got a fair shake. For 2002 the Leinster council spent 200k on dublin according to enquirer- that out of 1.14 million spent on games development. It sounds substantial at 17.5%, until you realise that 1.1m of Leinster s 2.1m people lived there at that point. Now I don’t mind accepting that things such as distances to travel, or relative games penetration (for which dublin back then and in some areas now would score poorly) may require a flexing of per capita allocation, but it stinks of absolute neglect of dublin by the GAA pre 2002 if you think that it’s a huge deal to give 52% of the people you’re trying to reach 17%. Of the investment and then go shouting it from the rooftops, and that’s before we get into things like access to pitches, the higher costs associated with dublin etc.
Strumms wrote: » Playing population in Dublin is significantly higher, more clubs, teams, price of everything.... money needs to travel wayyyy further.
Enquiring wrote: » Dublin have received disproportionate funding. Read the figures. Dublin have spent 50 million plus on games development since 2002. 25 million coming from taxpayers money. What has the next highest county received? As I've pointed out to you, the gap from 2nd highest to 32nd highest is quite small. Most counties had in and around the same number of coaches. Dublin were provided with millions upon millions more. This is all fact backed up by evidence. I've also told you that you cannot ignore 2 decades of funding. It's telling that you can't even acknowledge the other areas involved in all of this. The sponsorship, spend on salaries, spend on team preparations, that the whole plan was created for Dublin etc. Ignoring it might help you convince yourself that Dublin are not operating on a professional basis in an amateur sport but why should the rest of us play along with your fairytale?
tritium wrote: » You have posted selective horse manure. You have claimed dublin received disproportionate funding and on the back of it posted county allocations that you claimed evidenced this. When the true, and vastly larger, spend on games development was revealed you doubled down and suggested this should be assumed to be allocated the same way- even when it was pointed out that elements of that total simply couldn’t be allocated in that manner given the headings they sit under. you don’t want to touch that with a barge pole though since it discredits you completely. You accept every county has had coaches yet you won’t acknowledge that your figures for county allocation level cannot reflect that spend. You just keep dodging and posting the same old misleading nonsense. The rest of Leinster have around 118 games development personell assigned, far more than dublins 60-70 at this point - how many more than dublin should they have?
Enquiring wrote: » You couldn't back up your claims, can you come to the assistance of the other poster? Other counties have had coaches, this is not news. No one is claiming that Dublin had every single coach. As I've said, most had about the same number, only Dublin were way out ahead. You appear to have missed a few posts also, like this one:
Enquiring wrote: » You're not making much sense. Tripping over yourself here. What's dishonest about my argument? Every county has access to coaches, that's never been denied. Dublin have had access to far more. For example, have Antrim and Cork had the services of half the coaches Dublin have? Not at all. Every county had below 6 while Dublin had one professional coach for nearly every club. Are you denying Dublin spent over 50 million on games development since 2002? Are you denying they receive over 2 million in sponsorship every year? Spend 2 million on salaries, over 1.5 million on team expenses? This is the argument for splitting Dublin. They were overfunded and got increased success from the plan that was drawn up for them. Increased sponsorship followed on and it's snowballed. The finance is obviously also available for 4 counties. We can't let one county operate on a professional level in an amateur organisation. That's what it comes down to.
Enquiring wrote: » Ah the second person to make this claim. The other poster failed to provide any proof but I'm sure you'll gladly provide it for us? You're claiming that funding for colleges, academies, development officers, etc were only made available for all the Leinster counties except Dublin?
kilns wrote: » You do know during this time, development for all counties in Leinster except Dublin came from the Leinster council. Obvioulsly Dublin still gets more but the figures for Meath for example are not the real picture in terms of their development, take 2013 for example approx EUR3.2m was spent on Games development by Leinster Council (not including funding for primary or secondary schools or Dublin funding)
RoyalCelt wrote: » So in a year where Dublin beat Meath in Leinster and almost made the AI final Dublin get 1.3M in development funds and Meath get 12 thousand! Did the GAA want to purposely kill the biggest rivalry they had in football? It's no wonder we went from being competitive to losing by 20+ points. If Dublin go on and do 10 in a row this list could grow very thin. Enquiring wrote: » This time, we have the Games Development funding for 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014! Good lord. As a Meath man I'll never attend a dublin meath championship match again and haven't since 2014. It's clear to see where the money from my attendance was going. It's why nobody in Leinster takes dublin seriously anymore. There's no shame in losing to them as we know we can't compete and shouldn't either when you weigh up their advantages. And with population growth favouring them the gap will never close. The last golden era of football has officially ended. I hope you enjoyed it folks. You do know during this time, development for all counties in Leinster except Dublin came from the Leinster council. Obvioulsly Dublin still gets more but the figures for Meath for example are not the real picture in terms of their development, take 2013 for example approx EUR3.2m was spent on Games development by Leinster Council (not including funding for primary or secondary schools or Dublin funding)
Enquiring wrote: » This time, we have the Games Development funding for 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014! Good lord. As a Meath man I'll never attend a dublin meath championship match again and haven't since 2014. It's clear to see where the money from my attendance was going. It's why nobody in Leinster takes dublin seriously anymore. There's no shame in losing to them as we know we can't compete and shouldn't either when you weigh up their advantages. And with population growth favouring them the gap will never close. The last golden era of football has officially ended. I hope you enjoyed it folks.
Enquiring wrote: » If you compare the figures from the Dublin County Boards accounts to your own counties, are you in the same ballpark? Unlikely I'd say. Time for part 2 of operation facts. Don't worry, there's plenty to go. This time we're going to pick a year from the Games Development history bank and do some analysis. We all know the defenders of the financial disparity like to just stick with one or two specific years. Here we go with the Games Development breakdown for 2007! Have a look for your county and then compare it with Dublin. Cork got 89,000, Dublin got 1,603,903, Antrim only got 11,000. Many counties only 7,000. Out of just over 2 million total, Dublin got 1.6 of that. In percentage terms, Dublin received 76% of the total Games Development Funding in 2007. I think we now know why some people want to ignore nearly 2 decades of funding!
JeffKenna wrote: » David Moran (Kerry 2014) Paul Murphy (Kerry 2014) Peter Crowley (Kerry 2014) Stephen O'Brien (Kerry 2014) Jack Sherwood (Kerry 2014) Paul Geaney (Kerry 2014) James O'Donoghue (Kerry 2014) Pa Kilkenny (Kerry 2014) Michael Murphy (Donegal 2012) Neil McGee (Donegal 2012) Paddy McGrath (Donegal 2012) Paddy McBrearty (Donegal 2012) Eoin Cadogan (Cork 2010) Ciarán Sheehan (Cork 2010) Tommy Walsh (Kerry 2009) I must admit, I never really heard of Pa Kilkenny before?
tritium wrote: » Let’s just take one example of the dishonesty of the argument you’ve presented. Your position is that the Leinster council give development money to everyone so the imbalance must be maintained. Let’s look at that using evidence I’ve already presented (for those who want to say I’m not offering any answers). I already mentioned the figures in the GAA games development report 2014 specifically broke down the dublin games development separately to just ‘games development’. Each of these have headings for deployment of personnel-1.4m under the dublin heading and 3m under the gd heading. Where does this go? Well the staffing for games development is substantial across the country. Let’s look at the list of games development personell in the report to see how substantial. Dublin have just over 60, the rest of Leinster for example have 68. (That number for rest of Leinster is 118 now as I previously demonstrated). Now we’ve noted that dublin clubs are also paying a share, and some employees are also part time so an exact mapping is difficult but it seems reasonable that the GAA aren’t operating a separate salary structure ( you know the BMWs for the dubs thing others have alluded to) so that deployment figure shows a massive spend outside dublin, bigger than the county distributor you highlight
Enquiring wrote: » Conceded? You're acting like you've discovered the third secret of Fatima here! Everyone knows that the provincial council's provide funding for games development. Dublin avail of this too, since you couldn't provide any evidence to the contrary, I assume you've had to accept this as fact? The Munster, Ulster and Connaught provincial council's provide money as well as the Leinster council. This is common knowledge. What my figures show is that the funding for all counties except one are broadly similar. The gap between 2nd on the list in Cork and 32nd on the list in fermanagh is not that much. There isn't a big gap between Leitrim or Antrim or Kerry and Kilkenny. That's because all counties had access to a similar number of coaches. All below 6. One county has been completely out of line with all others. Dublin had their own special scheme set up for them. They received millions upon millions more than anyone else to provide nearly every club in Dublin with their own professional coach. The evidence I've provided shows that Dublin have spent over 50 million on games development since 2002! My argument is that Dublin should be split. This 50 million is only part of the argument to show why this should happen. That's the amazing thing. Dublin spend over 2 million per year on wages and salaries, receive over 2 million in sponsorship, spend over 1.5 million every year on team preparations. I've provided evidence for all of this. To top it all off, later I will provide evidence to show that all the above has happened off the back of a detailed plan that was drawn up for them by a special team put together by the GAA.
tritium wrote: » I keep telling you but you seem to struggle with it You made the allegations, you need to provide the evidence. I’ve already provided the information to show that you ignored a sizeable chunk of games development funding in your allegations, you’ve already conceded that. It doesn’t fall on me to show what was done with a single cent of that additional money because, you’ve guessed it, you’re the one making the allegations, On that basis alone your “evidence” is garbage. By the way when you say dublin were being bankrolled by Leinster council too on 2002, can you tell me what an appropriate percentage of Leinster council games development funding would be to go to dublin in that year? ( in your humble opinion of course)
Enquiring wrote: » Hang on. You failed to back up any of your claims, you failed to answer any question put to you and now you're back demanding answers. Tomorrow I will be supplying the master plan. The document that will all sound very familiar, basically all the steps Dublin have taken that was drawn up for them. It's a lot of reading but it will explain how we got in this situation where we must split Dublin into 4.
tritium wrote: » When you say they received 200k from the Leinster council, what was the Leinster councils total spend on games development in 2002?
Enquiring wrote: » Ok, time to go back to when the funding began! The earliest evidence I can get is from 2002. The funding wasn't to the level it was to become from 2005. At that stage, the Sports Council started funding Dublin but as a total spend on Games Development, Dublin were receiving a lot. They were being part funded by HQ and part funded by the Leinster Council. The 'Football Development Project' was Dublin. Quite a large total, they were also receiving 200,000 a year from the Leinster Council so about 700,000 a year on Games Development.
tritium wrote: » Again, you claimed a certain allocation of games development funding. It’s now apparent that you can’t actually account for the majority of said games development funding. unless you can show that your argument is baseless and you don’t actually know the true answer
MayoAreMagic wrote: » Why arent you providing any proof of tour own claims or answering any of the questions put to you? It seems you dont want to engage in any kind of meaningful debate on the topic. It is also a bit rich ask questions, many of which have already been answered, while refusing to address anything asked of you. Are you not able to answer them?
