Enquiring wrote: » If you compare the figures from the Dublin County Boards accounts to your own counties, are you in the same ballpark? Unlikely I'd say. Time for part 2 of operation facts. Don't worry, there's plenty to go. This time we're going to pick a year from the Games Development history bank and do some analysis. We all know the defenders of the financial disparity like to just stick with one or two specific years. Here we go with the Games Development breakdown for 2007! Have a look for your county and then compare it with Dublin. Cork got 89,000, Dublin got 1,603,903, Antrim only got 11,000. Many counties only 7,000. Out of just over 2 million total, Dublin got 1.6 of that. In percentage terms, Dublin received 76% of the total Games Development Funding in 2007. I think we now know why some people want to ignore nearly 2 decades of funding!
JeffKenna wrote: » David Moran (Kerry 2014) Paul Murphy (Kerry 2014) Peter Crowley (Kerry 2014) Stephen O'Brien (Kerry 2014) Jack Sherwood (Kerry 2014) Paul Geaney (Kerry 2014) James O'Donoghue (Kerry 2014) Pa Kilkenny (Kerry 2014) Michael Murphy (Donegal 2012) Neil McGee (Donegal 2012) Paddy McGrath (Donegal 2012) Paddy McBrearty (Donegal 2012) Eoin Cadogan (Cork 2010) Ciarán Sheehan (Cork 2010) Tommy Walsh (Kerry 2009) I must admit, I never really heard of Pa Kilkenny before?
Enquiring wrote: » This time, we have the Games Development funding for 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014! Good lord. As a Meath man I'll never attend a dublin meath championship match again and haven't since 2014. It's clear to see where the money from my attendance was going. It's why nobody in Leinster takes dublin seriously anymore. There's no shame in losing to them as we know we can't compete and shouldn't either when you weigh up their advantages. And with population growth favouring them the gap will never close. The last golden era of football has officially ended. I hope you enjoyed it folks.
RoyalCelt wrote: » So in a year where Dublin beat Meath in Leinster and almost made the AI final Dublin get 1.3M in development funds and Meath get 12 thousand! Did the GAA want to purposely kill the biggest rivalry they had in football? It's no wonder we went from being competitive to losing by 20+ points. If Dublin go on and do 10 in a row this list could grow very thin. Enquiring wrote: » This time, we have the Games Development funding for 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014! Good lord. As a Meath man I'll never attend a dublin meath championship match again and haven't since 2014. It's clear to see where the money from my attendance was going. It's why nobody in Leinster takes dublin seriously anymore. There's no shame in losing to them as we know we can't compete and shouldn't either when you weigh up their advantages. And with population growth favouring them the gap will never close. The last golden era of football has officially ended. I hope you enjoyed it folks. You do know during this time, development for all counties in Leinster except Dublin came from the Leinster council. Obvioulsly Dublin still gets more but the figures for Meath for example are not the real picture in terms of their development, take 2013 for example approx EUR3.2m was spent on Games development by Leinster Council (not including funding for primary or secondary schools or Dublin funding)
kilns wrote: » You do know during this time, development for all counties in Leinster except Dublin came from the Leinster council. Obvioulsly Dublin still gets more but the figures for Meath for example are not the real picture in terms of their development, take 2013 for example approx EUR3.2m was spent on Games development by Leinster Council (not including funding for primary or secondary schools or Dublin funding)
Enquiring wrote: » Ah the second person to make this claim. The other poster failed to provide any proof but I'm sure you'll gladly provide it for us? You're claiming that funding for colleges, academies, development officers, etc were only made available for all the Leinster counties except Dublin?
tritium wrote: » You really are some chancer. Let me be really clear on what I’ve claimed-What I’ve claimed and what you can’t refute is that there’s an enormous sum of games development money that you can’t account for the allocation of. You can’t apportion it to dublin either because thelistee dublin spend already includes the exact same heading!! I’ve claimed that the rest of Leinster has a level of games development personnel that couldn’t be paid for from the county allocations alone. I’ve also provided the numbers to show that I’ve claimed that you can’t give the actual amount of money each county has benefitted from for games development and that the county allocation doesn’t do this- both are demonstrably true. What that means is that you’ve quite deliberately taken a set of figures and spun them to paint dublin funding in the worst light, much like a number of hack journalists have.
Enquiring wrote: » You're not making much sense. Tripping over yourself here. What's dishonest about my argument? Every county has access to coaches, that's never been denied. Dublin have had access to far more. For example, have Antrim and Cork had the services of half the coaches Dublin have? Not at all. Every county had below 6 while Dublin had one professional coach for nearly every club. Are you denying Dublin spent over 50 million on games development since 2002? Are you denying they receive over 2 million in sponsorship every year? Spend 2 million on salaries, over 1.5 million on team expenses? This is the argument for splitting Dublin. They were overfunded and got increased success from the plan that was drawn up for them. Increased sponsorship followed on and it's snowballed. The finance is obviously also available for 4 counties. We can't let one county operate on a professional level in an amateur organisation. That's what it comes down to.
Enquiring wrote: » You couldn't back up your claims, can you come to the assistance of the other poster? Other counties have had coaches, this is not news. No one is claiming that Dublin had every single coach. As I've said, most had about the same number, only Dublin were way out ahead. You appear to have missed a few posts also, like this one:
tritium wrote: » You have posted selective horse manure. You have claimed dublin received disproportionate funding and on the back of it posted county allocations that you claimed evidenced this. When the true, and vastly larger, spend on games development was revealed you doubled down and suggested this should be assumed to be allocated the same way- even when it was pointed out that elements of that total simply couldn’t be allocated in that manner given the headings they sit under. you don’t want to touch that with a barge pole though since it discredits you completely. You accept every county has had coaches yet you won’t acknowledge that your figures for county allocation level cannot reflect that spend. You just keep dodging and posting the same old misleading nonsense. The rest of Leinster have around 118 games development personell assigned, far more than dublins 60-70 at this point - how many more than dublin should they have?
Enquiring wrote: » Dublin have received disproportionate funding. Read the figures. Dublin have spent 50 million plus on games development since 2002. 25 million coming from taxpayers money. What has the next highest county received? As I've pointed out to you, the gap from 2nd highest to 32nd highest is quite small. Most counties had in and around the same number of coaches. Dublin were provided with millions upon millions more. This is all fact backed up by evidence. I've also told you that you cannot ignore 2 decades of funding. It's telling that you can't even acknowledge the other areas involved in all of this. The sponsorship, spend on salaries, spend on team preparations, that the whole plan was created for Dublin etc. Ignoring it might help you convince yourself that Dublin are not operating on a professional basis in an amateur sport but why should the rest of us play along with your fairytale?
Strumms wrote: » Playing population in Dublin is significantly higher, more clubs, teams, price of everything.... money needs to travel wayyyy further.
tritium wrote: » Tbh it’s hard to argue given the number of people to be reached for games development that dublin historically got a fair shake. For 2002 the Leinster council spent 200k on dublin according to enquirer- that out of 1.14 million spent on games development. It sounds substantial at 17.5%, until you realise that 1.1m of Leinster s 2.1m people lived there at that point. Now I don’t mind accepting that things such as distances to travel, or relative games penetration (for which dublin back then and in some areas now would score poorly) may require a flexing of per capita allocation, but it stinks of absolute neglect of dublin by the GAA pre 2002 if you think that it’s a huge deal to give 52% of the people you’re trying to reach 17%. Of the investment and then go shouting it from the rooftops, and that’s before we get into things like access to pitches, the higher costs associated with dublin etc.
Enquiring wrote: » This is really dishonest stuff. You're trying to claim that money for primary schools, secondary schools, universities and all development officers were for every county in Leinster except Dublin. You have been asked to provide proof for this but have provided zero evidence.
tritium wrote: » I’m not trying to claim anything, I got the 200k from your figures You’re not saying your figures don’t give the full picture are you? Maybe you’d like to give us a correct breakdown? Maybe you could do the same for all the years you’ve given?
Enquiring wrote: » We've already gone over this a number of times. The Leinster council provides money for coaches for all of Leinster. They also provide money for schools and colleges, cúl camps, development projects etc. This is for every county in Leinster. The money for coaching provided Leinster counties with enough for between 2 to 6 coaches. This has gone up for some counties in the past few years. Dublin then get the money from elsewhere to pay for the rest of theirs. It's the same in all provinces. The provincial council's provide money for coaches. All counties have had under 6 coaches to develop hurling and football within the county they're appointed to. All counties except 1.
tritium wrote: » When you say from else where do you mean the half that the dublin clubs pay by themselves or do you mean from their county allocation. What does the dublin allocation cover under deployment of personell? What does the games development allocation cover under the same heading? Should dublin clubs be penalised or applauded for putting their hands in their own pockets to improve the coaching? If they pay for it themselves should it be counted as part of their funding? Do clubs outside dublin pay for their coaches?, if not why not?
Enquiring wrote: » You have loads of questions but you never have any answers. To pay for the rest of the coaches, Dublin receive money from the government and the GAA. They have received about 25 million since 2002 to do this. On top of that, clubs pay half the wages of coaches so that takes it to 50 million since 2002 or thereabouts. Now here is the important part. This was a scheme for Dublin GAA only! No other county had the option to part fund coaches, it was only available for Dublin clubs. No one has said Dublin clubs should be punished, they're not going to be punished. In fact, as part of their new county, players at underage and senior would now have a far greater chance of playing inter county hurling and football. Splitting Dublin advantages clubs in Dublin!! This has to happen also because not only does Dublin have the largest population by far, it has the wealth. 4 counties would not only easily survive but they'd thrive. The alternative is to let the current situation continue where you have a county spending 3.8 million a year on games development, 2 million on salaries and 1.5 million on team preparations. It's just not feasible to let that continue.
tritium wrote: » You say the dublin clubs aren’t being punished but I think you’ll find most would disagree. Thankfully the wishes of yourself don’t hold a lot of weight. You see there’s a certain honour playing for a team like dublin, an appeal that’s driven a group of young lads currently to be the greatest team of all time. Playing for dunnlaoghairevrathdown doesn’t have that appeal I’m afraid. By your logic the only fair solution is to split every county into blocks of about 30k to match leitrims population. After all that would be rewarding all the clubs in every county since more of their players could play inter county right? It would also fix over 100 years of imbalance in the GAA, which you seem to care about greatly so you must be in favour And where will you get space etc for these dublin teams given the challenges in that respect dublin already faces. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but we don’t have the space of Mayo or Kerry. And the space we have costs a hell of a lot more Did anyone else look to part fund additional coaches. Did any clubs outside dublin have to sit with the money burning a hole in their pocket. My recollection is too many were laughing at dublin for their “unleash the blue wave’ plan back then.You’ve already mentioned how some dublin clubs even went and hired their own coaches. Why can’t clubs elsewhere do that, possibly on a pooled basis. How about instead if finance is such an issue the other counties try to maximise their wealth properly first? For example with sponsorship like cork just managed? It seems far better than just sitting with a cap out expecting your cut
Enquiring wrote: » Oh dear. When all else fails, the old favourites that have been busted multiple times over are dragged out. This isn't just a one off team. Dublin have won about 100 titles across all disciplines post funding, were they all just one off greatest teams of all time? Population isn't the main issue, it's the millions upon millions of euros that you've been told about. Dublin have purchased land recently, you may have heard of spawell and hollystown golf club? They have other land also and already have a number of pitches to cater for the 4 counties. Yes, other counties looked for funding and were denied. I could go on but I think I'll just make one post and put it in my signature to direct people to who use the same old busted myths. Just on your last point though, it's absolutely hilarious. Cap out expecting your cut? John Bailey went running to Bertie Ahern to beg for money, Dublin have been handed millions upon millions of euros to implement a plan that was drawn up for them as they were too incompetent to do anything themselves. Through the plan, the finance and the hiring of highly paid officers to implement the plan, Dublin increased their success across the board. Consequently, their sponsorship grew off the back of the success. Dublin have been handed so much that they don't even bother with going to the effort of fundraising like every other county has to do because it's spoon fed to them. Also, it's noted that once again you have no response to the huge finance in Dublin GAA. Throwing out the old, failed excuses tells me that you know it's wrong. You know Dublin are operating at a professional level in an amateur sport. You can't or won't admit to it, that's your decision but those of us who care about the health of Gaelic games can't let it continue.
kilns wrote: » I wouldnt bother with him if I were you, the best thing I have done on this has been put this poster on ignore. Oh yeah I called him a chancer too and he got all upset and called it vile and abusive messages towards him lol
tikkahunter wrote: » Seriously if you have all this great information and proof go up and present it to your county board and demand answers , no point coming on here and presenting it . Seriously off you trot . Your trying to preach to lads who are involved with Dublin clubs and can see that they are all struggling to survive no matter what outsiders think . Go on off you go and come back and let us all know how they react to your great findings. Oh one other thing just let us all know the reason they gave you for their own incompetence.
Enquiring wrote: » Do you have any arguments against the evidence backed posts I've made? It's up to all of us to make representations to our clubs and county boards etc. I believe protests will be needed to highlight this further. The continuation of the status quo where 1 county is operating with massive levels of finance against counties living off scraps can't continue.
tritium wrote: » Why would anyone bother discussing this with you You ignore anything that doesn’t fit your narrative Your evidence has been soundly discredited and you’re still spouting on as if it was gospel. It’s like watching some sort of religious zealotry in action. Thankfully you represent a tiny minority of the gaa, most are gracious enough to understand that this dublin team is the result of a combination of talent and hard work
SheepsClothing wrote: » The clear issue is that Dublin has a quarter of the countries population and growing. Every other advantage stems from that. Sooner or later, the GAA are going to be forced to pull the trigger on a split in 4 or face into a reality where nobody bothers going to games or watching on TV anymore. It's boring.
jmayo wrote: » It is now decades since Louth or Offaly have done anything.
