FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

christy c wrote: »

Complete and utter dung. I am fully aware of accountability, I simply questioned something you clearly pulled out of your backside.

The rest of your post isn't worth responding to, typical sh1te when caught spoofing.

What spoofing?

You want to deflect to the opposition to defend a government you say you only voted for as the best of a bad lot.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What spoofing?

You want to deflect to the opposition to defend a government you say you only voted for as the best of a bad lot.

The spoofing i already pointed out.

No, I'm not defending the government. The easing of restrictions was a huge mistake in hindsight. But less nonsensical posting such as "BUT it was based on the government not ignoring the data or the advice" would be good.

christy c wrote: »

Complete and utter dung. I am fully aware of accountability, I simply questioned something you clearly pulled out of your backside.

The rest of your post isn't worth responding to, typical sh1te when caught spoofing.

So of the government apologists in here are sounding more and more like the covid denier lunatics. It's amazing how people will abandon all reasoning and lose their credibility for a shambles government. Trumpian politics.

smurgen wrote: »

So of the government apologists in here are sounding more and more like the covid denier lunatics. It's amazing how people will abandon all reasoning and lose their credibility for a shambles government. Trumpian politics.

Are there people sounding like COVID deniers? Quote them please.

christy c wrote: »

The spoofing i already pointed out.

No, I'm not defending the government. The easing of restrictions was a huge mistake in hindsight. But less nonsensical posting such as "BUT it was based on the government not ignoring the data or the advice" would be good.

Please outline what I 'spoofed' about?

I welcomed the opening up, but it was based on a belief that the government was not stupid and callous enough to ignore the expert advice.

christy c wrote: »

Are there people sounding like COVID deniers? Quote them please.

Sound like the line that NPHET were wrong in their worst projections be a factor of five. Seen that said a few times.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

They projected worst case 1,200 cases a day by mid January if Government went ahead with the opening up. Government obviously weighed that up against all the other considerations and deemed it worth the risk.

If NPHET had projected 6k+ cases a day by the 5th of January then clearly the Government would have made a very different decision.

Here you go.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Please outline what I 'spoofed' about?

I welcomed the opening up, but it was based on a belief that the government was not stupid and callous enough to ignore the expert advice.

"Everybody sane (I include myself in that) 'welcomed' the decision to open up. BUT it was based on the government not ignoring the data or the advice."

It was plain as day that the government were going against advice based on the article I linked to.

smurgen wrote: »

Here you go.

Who is sounding like a COVID denier?

christy c wrote: »

"Everybody sane (I include myself in that) 'welcomed' the decision to open up. BUT it was based on the government not ignoring the data or the advice."

It was plain as day that the government were going against advice based on the article I linked to.

Yes, once it became clear that they had gone against advice my position changed. Go back the thread, I have been critical of it for quite some time now...probably from when I became aware of that article and others like it. I criticisied it long before the numbers began to inevitably soar.
The government stated at the time that they 'HAD taken NPHET's advice' into account and had taken a balanced decision'.
They clearly...and profoundly got that wrong.

Fade Into You

The Green Party is a joke.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

The spoofing i already pointed out.

No, I'm not defending the government. The easing of restrictions was a huge mistake in hindsight. But less nonsensical posting such as "BUT it was based on the government not ignoring the data or the advice" would be good.

If only a group of experts had some foresight............

christy c wrote: »

Who is sounding like a COVID denier?

Maryanne84. Restrictions are useless lol.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, once it became clear that they had gone against advice my position changed. Go back the thread, I have been critical of it for quite some time now...probably from when I became aware of that article and others like it. I criticisied it long before the numbers began to inevitably soar.
The government stated at the time that they 'HAD taken NPHET's advice' into account and had taken a balanced decision'.
They clearly...and profoundly got that wrong.

But it was clear before they announced the easing that they were going against advice, were you and the opposition not aware of that? Dont know how you missed that

McMurphy wrote: »

If only a group of experts had some foresight............

Yep, exactly. The majority of politicians and the public supported easing, despite it being abundantly clear that the experts did not agree.

christy c wrote: »

Yep, exactly. The majority of politicians and the public supported easing, despite it being abundantly clear that the experts did not agree.

No this is what's been spun. Where's the hard evidence for this narrative?

Another beauty.

Tanaiste Leo Varadkar has ruled out a mandatory quarantine for people arriving into Ireland, saying it "turned out to be a bit of a disaster" in Australia.

There have been increased calls for mandatory quarantine rules for people arriving from countries such as the US that have high numbers of coronavirus cases.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/health-news/coronavirus-airbourne-travel-ireland-america-22353169.amp?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar&__twitter_impression=true&s=08

smurgen wrote: »

No this is what's been spun. Where's the hard evidence for this narrative?

Well we know FF/ FG/greens supported going against advice. I linked to a video of Mary Lou supporting the easing. So between them alone that's the majority.

I think it was yourself that linked to a poll showing 70+% supported the restrictions at the time in December

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

Yep, exactly. The majority of politicians and the public supported easing, despite it being abundantly clear that the experts did not agree.

One politician in particular disagreeing with them will be etched on people's minds for a while to come i should think.

Watch: ‘Not holding back!’ — Leo Varadkar absolutely tears into NPHET on Claire Byrne Live

christy c wrote: »

Yep, exactly. The majority of politicians and the public supported easing, despite it being abundantly clear that the experts did not agree.

Surveys of the public on this would disagree with this claim. It seems to be 2/3 in favour of them, especially now. Where there is a challenge to advice it's from government, who've been constantly tweaking the levels since October.

McMurphy wrote: »

One politician in particular disagreeing with them will be etched on people's minds for a while to come i should think.

Watch: ‘Not holding back!’ — Leo Varadkar absolutely tears into NPHET on Claire Byrne Live

I don't think he was the only one. They really threw a curveball back then and they still have communications issues IMO.

christy c wrote: »

But it was clear before they announced the easing that they were going against advice, were you and the opposition not aware of that? Dont know how you missed that

Here is a post of mine from 23/12 criticising them christy.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115693019&postcount=4332

Once I found out they had ignored stark and plain advice I changed my mind. What did you do?

is_that_so wrote: »

Surveys of the public on this would disagree with this claim. It seems to be 2/3 in favour of them, especially now. Where there is a challenge to advice it's from government, who've been constantly tweaking the levels since October.

I'm not sure if we're on the same page, my point was that the surveys showed that the public supported the level of restrictions in December, despite the restrictions being less than recommended.

I dont remember surveys showing people wanted more restrictions daring December?

is_that_so wrote: »

I don't think he was the only one. They really threw a curveball back then and they still have communications issues IMO.

Nope that was an unfounded allegation by FG TD's that turned out to be false that NPHET had briefed Stephen Donnelly. It was an attempt to undermine NPHET and the CMO again.

https://twitter.com/AlanFarrell/status/1317079759030026240?s=19

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here is a post of mine from 23/12 criticising them christy.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115693019&postcount=4332

Once I found out they had ignored stark and plain advice I changed my mind. What did you do?

But how did you miss that the government were going against advice initially? For someone so active on political threads that seems like a huge oversight. Maybe you want to revise your statement now and limit it to speaking for yourself?

smurgen wrote: »

Nope that was an unfounded allegation by FG TD's that turned out to be false that NPHET had briefed Stephen Donnelly. It was an attempt to undermine NPHET and the CMO again.

https://twitter.com/AlanFarrell/status/1317079759030026240?s=19

They briefed Donnelly on considerations of LEVEL 4 and then it suddenly became Level 5. Don't view this as an attack on NPHET. It's been mainly good but their communication has sucked at times.

McMurphy

is_that_so wrote: »

I don't think he was the only one. They really threw a curveball back then and they still have communications issues IMO.

They didn't throw a curved ball, and this has been discussed more times on these threads than I care to remember.

It's on record that Donnelly knew, Michaél Martin knew and Eamon Ryan knew well beforehand.

Either Leo lied that he didn't know, or else he was purposely left out of the loop (maybe they thought he shouldn't be trusted with sensitive information for some reason lol)

However, a "a curved ball" and "communication issues" is the FG type of propaganda Goebbels himself would be proud of.

christy c wrote: »

But how did you miss that the government were going against advice initially? For someone so active on political threads that seems like a huge oversight. Maybe you want to revise your statement now and limit it to speaking for yourself?

The government said they had made a balanced decision to open up.

I did not know at the time that they had ignored NPHET's warning not to open up hospitality and family gatherings together until a few days later, at which time I began to question them.

McMurphy wrote: »

They didn't throw a curved ball, and this has been discussed more times on these threads than I care to remember.

It's in record that Donnelly knew, Michaél Martin knew and Eamon Ryan knew, beforehand.

Either Leo lied that he didn't know, or else he was purposely left out of the loop (maybe they thought he shouldn't be trusted with sensitive information for some reason lol)

They were told by NPHET on the Thursday that Level 3 was fine, on Saturday that Level 4 was being considered and that morphed into a Level 5 by Sunday. That's not good communication at all.