Strumms wrote: » It’s not an inference at all that others aren’t run well...that’s simply Disney time thinking on your behalf.. if I say “god, Xx tennis club are run well and are being successful”...by your ‘logic’ I’m saying Zz tennis club are not run well... See your arguments are just see through disingenuous. This is another example. Accusing posters of saying something they didn’t... Dublin can pay the funding back, sure, but let’s level that playing field... ‘ everybody ‘ gives funding back.... hmmm thought not... Funding is required to facilitate the participation and enjoyment for everybody... long may it continue...
MayoAreMagic wrote: » Well saying that dubs shouldnt apologise for simply running their clubs well, the inference is that, others arent run well and that this is simply their own problem. Otherwise why say it? If you believe that, it echoes the british royals analogy I mentioned in my previous post - just totally out of touch. Yes some dublin clubs have the same pick as some counties, it has been widely recognised in the media - british royals strike again. Again, dublin is funded as a province. The late andy kettle argued that it was more like a province and should be funded as such, when the issue of funding was being discussed. Again, volunteers are in every county. Most would crawl over hot coals to get the opportunities those in dublin get. Finally, if funding isnt the be all, pay it all back and be done with it...
Strumms wrote: » Where did I say other clubs weren’t well run ? I didn’t in fact... which goes to further dismount your argument if it can be called that. No Dublin club has a population of many counties or a county or close to it, put down the gin. Dublin is funded as a county, a large one yes, but a county. Which is what it is. Funding isn’t the be all... like I said, the grassroots work, the volunteerism certainly is the chief enabler of the unmatchable success and achievements... coupled with talent, drive, determination and a fierce will to succeed despite any obstacles. Great to witness.
dobman88 wrote: » Do you have a list? 3 Kerry lads finished up this week who won 1 in 2014. Think Kerrigan from Cork had 1 also and afaik he finished up recently too. Who are the 15 that have 1?
JeffKenna wrote: » Apart from Dublin, there are 15 players playing intercounty that have won an all Ireland. Crazy stat.
MayoAreMagic wrote: » That is just a point of scale though. Everything is bigger. However, the bigger they get, the more profitable they become, so obviously that means that the increased scale is a hugely positive thing for the club, rather than the hardship you seem to want people to believe. You seem to think that other clubs arent well run. Many country clubs are running at close to optimal levels and produce, per capita, multiples of intercounty players that the superclubs do. In truth it is the parameters that are different rathet than the efforts. Some dublin clubs have the population of many counties. Just like dublin itself is popluated and funded as a province. That is the difference, rather than any great work by voluteers in dublin that nobody else can manage. You would need some brass neck to try to push that argument, in all honesty.
tritium wrote: » The fact you keep spinning this “everyone has the same problems” line shows how little you know about what you’re talking about. There are also much bigger costs on dublin for example and space is at a premium. One blogger noted how Cuala were quoted €10million for a sliver of land for a pitch. Na fianna faced being effectively shut down because of the impact of metro link on bits of pitches they use all over north dublin, but don’t own. I’ve already mentioned how many of the pitches my friends played on as kids are now apartment blocks- that was berties real legacy to Dublin GAAhttps://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/every-bit-of-land-is-just-seen-as-an-opportunity-to-make-money-dublin-gaa-in-a-crisis-not-of-its-own-making-37019015.html It’s all well and good complaining that ‘big dublin clubs’ are able to fund their coaches- why shouldn’t they use their own money for the benefit of the club? On the one hand you seem to want to bitch that the dubs are being given everything, on the other that they spend their own money wisely. The reality is that coach is also spread much thinner than they would be with a smaller club. Truth is there’s no good reason for example smaller clubs to not pool resources to share a coach to develop skills.
Strumms wrote: » They have more income, but the have more outgoings... Dublin clubs don’t have to apologize to anybody for being well run, for having a huge appeal over all the games, age groups, abilities etc... kids turn up to training at various clubs often to be helped, coached and mentored from time to time by footballers who have won All Ireland’s... the most revered sports people in the county/ country put in huge amounts of work at grassroots level too when they can... they pass it on and are already despite being in the throws of unprecedented success themselves ready to help foster and enable grass roots development... through skills, encouragement and hard work.. it pays off.. because it’s not all about them, they in the throws of unprecedented success, are already thinking ahead, everyone is.. The seeds are being sown at 7... that will be nurtured up to the next senior team..
MayoAreMagic wrote: » There are costs with every club. But large urban clubs with huge memberships are far more profitable than small clubs. That takes into account the costs involved, as it deals in the net gain. Surely that is obvious? I dpnt see why he would need to mention that personally. It is like saying 'well there are big costs involved in running amazon' in response to a comment on the owner being one of the richest men in the world. Obviously it is working for him, wouldnt you say? Many dub denialists remind me of that chris rock joke where people want credit for things they are supposed to do. 'Well we pay our costs dont forget' - who doesnt? 'We have volunteers out coaching kids' - other counties would crawl over hot coals for the chance to have that many kids at training sessions...
kilns wrote: » For one he refers to Dublin clubs incomes and goes into detail about it but neglects the costs involved in running a big urban club
MayoAreMagic wrote: » What are the half-truths?
kilns wrote: » it is full of half truths and irrelevant breakdowns
Strumms wrote: » Unless you have access to not only the detailed accounts of the GAA/Dublin... it’s not possible to say. But let’s do some amateur sleuthing regardless. They’ve been to 8 of the last 10 football all Ireland finals...say very conservatively about 40,000 Dublin fans at each...that’s around 3.2 million euros in gate receipts just for the finals... from Dublin...forgetting hospitality etc...multiply that by 8 finals... about 25.5 million in gate receipts for All Ireland Finals...from Dublin alone... 8 days... so I think, you can see the begrudgery, Dublin simply contributed in the most of any county, by virtue of their success. They received more because of the size of the sport in the county, more clubs, more teams... it’s thriving, underage, minor, senior, masters, boys, girls, men women... they pay in, simply truck loads more then they received....always will..no issue with that but the begrudgery.... wow. . If a club here got a few bob given to them for floodlights or an all weather pitch.... you’d have some lads in xxx complain it’s unfair even if they themselves received 4 pitches and floodlights x4 in their own county.
Boom__Boom wrote: » https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/connellan-takes-his-case-for-funding-reform-nationwide-1.4452623
Connellan takes his case for funding reform nationwide Every club sent a 23-page document detailing apparent advantages enjoyed by Dublin GAA Paul Keane John Connellan could generally be found in a Dublin jersey growing up in Athlone, drilling frees like Charlie Redmond and jinking past imaginary defenders in his garden like Jason Sherlock. His dad Paul is a proud Dub, from Raheny, who lined out for the Blues in the 1975 All-Ireland U-21 final next to Brian Mullins before eventually moving to Westmeath. “That’s why ‘Spike’ Fagan wasn’t my hero growing up, it was the likes of Jayo and Dublin players that I’d be copying in the back garden with the Arnotts jersey on,” smiled Connellan. All of that is worth pointing out because if it seems like the former Westmeath player harbours some sort of grudge against Dublin, he really doesn’t. The son of a solicitor, John is a barrister himself and that too is probably important to note when considering his quest for a realignment of coaching funds within the association. Dublin receives too much, he claims, arguing that this is neither equality nor justice. Earlier this week, every club secretary in the country received an email from Connellan with the following text in the subject line; ‘Fair and Equal Funding for all GAA clubs – Addressing the GAA imbalance’. The body of the email contained an 800-word synopsis of why he feels clubs should embrace a motion at their AGMs proposing that “All coaching and development funding must be allocated to individual counties on an equal basis based on registered GAA members in the preceding year in each county up to a maximum variance of 5%. Any proposal to allocate coaching and development funding in excess of a 5% variance must be brought to Annual Congress every two years for approval with a transparent plan and business case for such increased funding”. The email calls on club executives and county boards to stand together on this issue, noting how in the period 2007 to 2017 – pretty much when he played for Westmeath, as it happens – Dublin GAA received €16.6m in coaching and development funding, “or 48% of the total funding allocated to Republic of Ireland counties, in spite of only 25% of the total population being located in Dublin. In the same period, Galway only received €784,077, Westmeath €725,501 and Cavan €613,078, for example”. Attached with the email is a 23-page document which sets out in detail various apparent advantages enjoyed by Dublin GAA, some of which have been well ventilated at this stage, some of which haven’t. He claims, for instance, that providing funding for an army of local coaches around Dublin for so many years now has effectively led to the creation of a number of ‘superclubs’, or mini-academies. “The doubling of GAA membership within Dublin and participation rates as a result of the promotion of GAA games in schools across Dublin is a welcome development,” writes Connellan. “But what is completely missed in the debate is the effective doubling of the main income stream in nearly all Dublin GAA clubs, of their membership income.” He also notes the ability of clubs to generate significant sponsorship income, claiming one club “not even at Senior A level was able to secure a sponsorship deal totalling €175,000 over five years, or €35,000 per annum”. Connellan’s arguments go on and on – he criticises the GAA, as well as RTÉ, for basically avoiding the issue – though he consistently comes back to a simple issue of fairness. For him, a cash-rich Dublin no longer requires propping up with “disproportionate” funding. “Look, I can see exactly why the decision was taken to pump money into Dublin because the GAA was losing out to other sports in the capital, and that’s not a good look for the GAA,” said Connellan. “But the thing has snowballed and nobody has sat down and performed a forensic analysis of where we’re actually going. It has been allowed to gather momentum to the point where it’s a runaway train.” The Connellans are an interesting sporting family. His father Paul also played League of Ireland soccer with UCD and Dundalk. John’s older brother, David, played pro rugby in France, his sister, Éimear, represented Westmeath in ladies football and his younger brother, former Australian Rules player Ray, is a current Westmeath senior. John admits to being “disillusioned about the whole thing” when he retired from Westmeath himself in 2017. So what about Ray’s future? “I’ve never said this to Ray but even if we do get what we’re looking for with this push now, the reality is that change probably won’t be felt for another 10 years,” said Connellan, a former underage soccer international. “There’s no quick fix for the likes of Ray and Westmeath in the near future. It’s never too late to do the right thing though, what’s the alternative?”
kilns wrote: » Where is that CNN fact checker guy when you need him....[/QUO This one really amuses me. The data would knock you out.
Enquiring wrote: » Where is your fact based data? You've been shown to be wrong numerous times on this thread yet you keep repeating the same untruths! 1. The Dublin project started in the early 2000's, not 2007. 2. Dublin GAA still receive 1.3 million every year so the project has not ended. It spends over 3 million on games development every year. 3. Gaelic Games did not need saving in Dublin. It was going fine only the Dublin County board couldn't accept a few defeats to other Leinster counties. 4. If you want to include county grounds in your argument, then you have to include Croke Park. Dublin footballers didn't play a single championship game outside Croke Park for a decade, the GAA tried it with the Dublin hurlers too but Dublin supporters weren't interested in attending their hurlers matches. 5. Grounds in Hollystown or Spawell or whatever side can be used for one of the four counties in the splitting of Dublin. 6. It's so magnanimous of Dublin to say let everyone else have a go at the Dublin only program after they had sole use of it for nearly 2 decades. 7. Again, you are trying to use figures from one year under specific guidelines and ignore all the other years. The overall figures show that Dublin were overfunded by a large amount. 8. You've been told that Kildare did not reject any GDO. 9. That twitter account posted a list of job specifics for the GDO. It went against your line that they just work in primary schools. They do huge amounts of work within clubs which include advanced academies. 10. Loads of us have kids in clubs. Why were all kids in clubs outside Dublin excluded from the GDO program? Basically, your post claiming to be full of facts was full of the opposite.
ArielAtom wrote: » I've avoided posting for a bit purely because I found delivering fact based data was counter argued with figures pulled from the air with not data to back it up. One thing on funding that has been mentioned is two decades now. That is simply untrue, the Dublin project went from 2007 to 2017 where there were additional funding allocated to Dublin, this was done to save Gaelic Games in the capital. On funding, there is zero outcry from the usual posters when it comes to one county getting 30m from the taxpayer, 20m from HQ and 3.75m from the Munster council to develop their home ground. Before the usual suspects pile in with CP is Dublins home ground, it is not. It might be where they play the majority of their home games, but so can any other county should they wish to. You rent it, it really is that simple. I really do hope Dublin develop a 30k seater stadium at either Hollystown or Spawell. This would hope get the posters who whinge about "home" advantage to pipe down. The funding for GPO's should be rolled out to every county and i the same manner as it was in Dublin. But lads let's drop the Dublin funding line, I posted a long while back the figures taking into account the census numbers, and according to that Dublin underfunded in comparison to some other counties, although as has been pointed out in the past some clubs in Kildare rejected the offer of GPO's based on the fact that they did not need them, I'd argue based on their current status that is exactly what is required. I posted a twitter feed from a GPO which if you read the full thread he details the work he does as a GPO in a Dublin club and also offered advice on how this could be rolled out in other counties. Very good ideas from this young Gael. I was heavily involved in my club at juvenile level when my kids were underage. They have moved onto adult games now, neither will ever make county, do I care? not a jot. Club is where it starts, club comes 1st. County is a bonus. I may even volunteer again for our academy, big numbers attending, great to see.
ClanofLams wrote: » Ok, I'm not debating this any further because it is a ridiculous idea that has absolutely zero chance of ever being implemented.
MayoAreMagic wrote: » Id imagine he means the irish taxpayers. Im sure Dublin people did contribute. However, the pertinent point is 3/4 of the people contributing were from elsewhere. They werent necessarily gaa people either, just people paying tax in tye country. On that topic, has anyone ever looked at the figures as regards the notion that dublin bring so much funds into the gaa? Looking at attendances and number of games played, they bring in much lower a percentage than they take out.
