History Queen wrote: » I'm interested in the views of other teachers as to what should happen to assess the work of LC2021 students. With growing calls for cancellation of the exams and predicted grades, I fear we are sleep walking in to a repeat of last year's debacle. My personal view is the exams should go ahead as scheduled but perhaps a further review of papers to allow for more choice should happen, suggestions submitted from subject associations maybe? As regards projects/orals/practicals I can only speak to my own subjects. In History I feel the project should go ahead as planned. What do others think?
rainbowtrout wrote: » I think the exams should go ahead. I think the LCs calling for it (online) are very shortsighted. There isn't an awful lot of data to go on because of last year and we are in a much different position. While I didn't agree with predicted grades last year, we had got as far as march before we went online and it was May before the LC was cancelled so we had the guts of 2 years teaching those students. The current LCs are calling for a cancellation now. Cancelling now would just mean downing tools in January. Where would be the incentive for any student to work for the rest of the year. I think the LC should go ahead, cases are crazy at the moment, but the government have until June to sort the mess out. If necessary the LC could take place in July. Results came out late this year despite the fact that results were in 6-8 weeks earlier than they would have been if they had sat the exams and they were marked as normal. Where there's a will there's a way. If a teacher can stand in a classroom with 24 students on a daily basis, then there is no reason that an examiner cannot sit in a classroom at a distance from a student and conduct an oral examination. Give them microphones if necessary. Option 2: if the SEC are unwilling to go down this route then there's no reason that orals could not take place on Teams/Zoom etc. There is a facility to record on both of these apps. Either have someone supervise in the room so no cheating takes place or ask the student to show the entire room beforehand with the laptop so it can be seen that no notes are pinned to a wall etc. History/Geography/Ag Science have booklets which are submitted. No reason for this to change. Extend the deadline if necessary. I'm sure there are other subjects that fall into this category. The Junior Cert need not be cancelled, but the start of it could be staggered. The busiest days of the Leaving Cert are the core subjects and subjects like Biology, French, Geography which have a large uptake. If you want the exams to go ahead with fewer students in each room, then delay the start of the Junior Cert by a week or a week and a half until the numbers doing LC have decreased and centres are reduced in each school. Then use those centres for JC exams. Weren't the JC results in 2019 delayed until October anyway so it wouldn't make much difference if that became standard?
mirrorwall14 wrote: » LC needs to go ahead but they need to pull apart the content far far more and acknowledge that it doesn’t go far enough in some subjects. Cut the course enough or redesign the papers enough that at least 1/3 of content is gone. Do that this week and publish it ASAP. Use the very high risk teachers and inspectorate, the NCCA and the SEC to just get it done. I guarantee the students would be happy enough in that case. Maths for example, they gave an extra choice. But since we don’t know what will be in the sections this does not shorten the course, at all.Music is 50% practical. They made NO changes to it. At all. None. That’s ridiculous. Groups involving voice and wind haven’t been able to perform together in a year! Then they cut two parts of the listening out that were ALREADY done by some of the 5th years last year (fundamentally unfair), added one extra choice to the Irish music essay (still does not shorten amount needing to be studied as there is no definitive list of topics) and made an adjustment so minor to the composing paper as to be insulting to hard working students (removed one major and one minor key from the course) For orals and practicals fund one high quality webcam for each examiner. Install it high in a corner in each room so that the whole room is viewable. Student performs in that room, examiner outside the room (singing is a big problem safety wise). Air the room after each performance. For orals do the same and if the room is big enough then the examiner can be there with them. Pay extra home ec examiners so there are less students in a room. Run them. Fund the extra requirements. Don’t cancel them. Junior cert can go in my opinion. Say it now let us figure out how to keep them motivated for the rest of the year but take the exam prep off them so we can use the time to solidify content they have missed and absolutely need for senior cycle. I’m very concerned about maths for example
Julie May wrote: » Long time lurker here and have just registered. Must say this post is very logical and practical. Makes perfect sense so probably unlikely to happen!
Treppen wrote: » I suspect that the minimal changes were to leave some room for maneuver if things went awry again... which they have done. Predictive grades are a no-go really. It's up to the SEC now. Teachers have done their part and are probably willing to volunteer in good numbers if needs be for June/July/August. Because of music there's precedent for all subjects to have a teacher present during practical/ oral . So Zoom etc. should be possible for languages ... dunno about Home Ec. though, maybe just postpone it till later.
km79 wrote: » Exams won’t go ahead imo Practicals and orals deadlines are too tight If the vaccine had been a few months sooner ........ Predicted grades again imo
Kerry Fianna Fáil TD Norma Foley has called for urgent clarification from the Government and the Department of Education about plans for this year's delayed Leaving Cert exams. Deputy Foley - a teacher at Presentation Secondary School in Tralee - says she has been 'inundated' with calls from students, parents and teachers who are deeply concerned about how the exams will be run. The Tralee based TD raised a number of serious concerns about the plans for the exams including how marks for practical exams will be applied and how exams that are typically over two hours long will be conducted under current restrictions that place strict time limits on large gatherings. Deputy Foley said the ongoing lack of clarity over the exams is placing students under extreme stress and anxiety. "Leaving Cert students are currently experiencing unnecessarily heightened levels of stress and anxiety due to a lack of preparedness and planning by the Department of Education some eight weeks after schools closed," she said. Deputy Foley said it is 'inexcusable' that students are being forced to prepare for their exams in an information vacuum. "There is absolutely no clarity for students as to how exactly the Leaving Cert exams will operate. Amazingly, the only information currently to hand is the July 29 date, nothing more" she claimed. The Kerry TD has highlighted a myriad of concerns Minister for Education Joe McHugh. Her concerns include the following issues among many others. As public health measures advise that no gathering of people can extend beyond two hours does that mean that all subject exams will be for a maximum of 120mins? If so and if a two hour exam time frame is to be the norm what exactly will be examined in each subject and will all typical exam topics appear on the paper allowing students to select their preferences? Deputy Foley also asked what plans are in place for students and teachers who may have underlying health conditions and what measures are in place to handle a situation if a student or supervisor takes ill? If that were to occur she asked if all those in the exam centre be required to be tested and to self-isolate. Minister McHugh was also asked to concede that it is now "neither fair nor possible" for practical, project and coursework to be examined at this stage and that full marks for these tests should be awarded as was the case for practical elements of the music and Irish and foreign language orals. "Students deserve equal treatment and consequently full marks should be awarded in subjects with a practical element," said Deputy Foley. With regard to the results Deputy Foley asked what provision is being made for students who have been awarded places to study abroad from August and who do not have the option to defer? "Leaving Cert students are currently living in a state of Limbo. In the interest of the health and well-being of all concerned now is the time for full disclosure of plans by the Department of Education. Students, parents and teachers deserve nothing less" concluded Deputy Foley.
dory wrote: » I really, really hope the LC goes ahead. Our students overwhelmingly want the exams to happen. But they know there's a very loud majority out there calling for them to be cancelled. Or this new way of saying it "seeking clarity". In Irish they've already given a choice of questions and less sraith pictiúr. I don't know what else they could do really. Take a poem or prose out completely maybe. There's definitely a way to run this safely. But whether they'll want to take the time and energy (or funding) to do that is another thing.
dory wrote: » In Irish they've already given a choice of questions and less sraith pictiúr. I don't know what else they could do really. Take a poem or prose out completely maybe.
Wombatman wrote: » They have cut the sraith pictiúr down to ten from 20. Question. Which ten should the students revise?
Random sample wrote: » The choice of questions means you can leave a poem and prose out completely. I agree with the majority, no need to cancel the exams again. There was no need last year either. The media have a case to answer in how they behaved around the leaving cert last year. It should be stamped out quickly if they attempt a similar campaign this year.
Wombatman wrote: » The amendments to the exam papers should ensure that teachers and students can reduce the amount of material they need to cover\revise. Giving extra choice does not always ensure this. They way the choice is structured in Irish and English, for example, allows for the elimination of some material. In other like Maths and History, the choice structure does not allow for this and students still have to cover the whole course if they are to score well. Other subjects like Applied Maths have no amendments at all.Some teachers aren't fully aware of the changes, or their implications, and are still trying to cover all material as usual, which leads to students thinking they have to cover all material. Revision is well underway. If further changes are made to papers some revision work, say the work done over Christmas for example, could have all been in vain. If further changes are required, they need to be done very soon, be clear and easy to understand and be very well communicated to the teachers and students.
mirrorwall14 wrote: » With maths the extra choice doesn’t allow you to reduce content because anything can come up anywhere, multiple times and questions are multifaceted
Wombatman wrote: » The amendments to the exam papers should ensure that teachers and students can reduce the amount of material they need to cover\revise. Giving extra choice does not always ensure this. They way the choice is structured in Irish and English, for example, allows for the elimination of some material. In other like Maths and History, the choice structure does not allow for this and students still have to cover the whole course if they are to score well. Other subjects like Applied Maths have no amendments at all. Revision is well underway. If further changes are made to papers some revision work, say the work done over Christmas for example, could have all been in vain. If further changes are required, they need to be done very soon, be clear and easy to understand and be very well communicated to the teachers and students.
amacca wrote: » Agree but will they actually make the changes that are required or give a timeline for when and what kind of changes (in a timely fashion) to allow students and teachers to plan?..... I woukdnt hold my breath if past performance is anything tp go by they'll make another arrogant cock up of it and tell you about it with as little notice as possible
Nyla Worried Son wrote: » The maths changes are totally inadequate. Even more so now.
History Queen wrote: » The only way that will happen is if subject associations and unions get out ahead of this now and contact the Department requesting same is done. Then publically announce that they have done so. I have written an email to this effect which I will be sending to my subject associations and union tomorrow, I encourage everyone to do the same.
