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Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

[Deleted User]

Is there another way of looking at it?
It’s still very, very divided, and actually seems to be getting more polarized over the last five years. It’s economy is woeful, very heavily dependent on the public sector.
Unionists are making plans to celebrate its centenary, but there seems to be very little to be happy with, certainly far less than the Republic or the rest of the UK.
No point in arguing about a border poll on this thread, but is there any possible way of looking at NI as a social, political and economic failure?

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Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

What’s different is that you could have built a factory in any of 27 countries which would have had unfettered access to UK and the 26 Eu countries. Now only little ni has that privilege.
You are correct that nothing has changed for us with regard to exporting goods but it has changed for everyone else.

With the supply chain issues being reported across the North, I'd say you're being somewhat facetious with your insistence that you have unfettered access to the UK market.

It's Brandon Lewis levels of head-in-the-sand. Have you been drinking the BoJo propaganda Kool Aid?

Ben Lowry of The Newsletter could hardly be described as anything but the most ardent of Unionists, here's his take on things;

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/ben-lowry-bogus-denial-major-new-irish-sea-border-illustration-tragicomic-political-saga-3083508%3famp

An amusingly appropriate direct quote from that article;

"As from 11pm on Thursday just past, trade is no longer unfettered between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK."

Or another one;

"There is another way to illustrate how unthinkable such a development was until recently — republicans did not think of it either."

Maybe when you have people like Ben calling this out, it is a bit more than Republican wishful thinking to state that the DUP have made unification an altogether more likely prospect.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

What’s different is that you could have built a factory in any of 27 countries which would have had unfettered access to UK and the 26 Eu countries. Now only little ni has that privilege.
You are correct that nothing has changed for us with regard to exporting goods but it has changed for everyone else.

And what company is going to locate a factory in NI when they know that in four years time, the DUP will be doing their level best to pull NI out of the EU.

I don't think NI has unfethered EU access to provide services in the EU either which would have made NI very attractive for London financial services companies to relocate to.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

With the supply chain issues being reported across the North, I'd say you're being somewhat facetious with your insistence that you have unfettered access to the UK market.

It's Brandon Lewis levels of head-in-the-sand. Have you been drinking the BoJo propaganda Kool Aid?

Ben Lowry of The Newsletter could hardly be described as anything but the most ardent of Unionists, here's his take on things;

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/ben-lowry-bogus-denial-major-new-irish-sea-border-illustration-tragicomic-political-saga-3083508%3famp

An amusingly appropriate direct quote from that article;

"As from 11pm on Thursday just past, trade is no longer unfettered between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK."

Or another one;

"There is another way to illustrate how unthinkable such a development was until recently — republicans did not think of it either."

Maybe when you have people like Ben calling this out, it is a bit more than Republican wishful thinking to state that the DUP have made unification an altogether more likely prospect.

I thought the 'unfettered access' thing was just a DUP delusion... downcow, ardently 'not' a DUPer seems to have bought into the delusion.

ELM327

The funny thing is before Brexit they had unfettered access to both EU27 and GB. Now they have neither.

[Deleted User]

Whatever about access surely the biggest obstacle to investment in NI is convincing Multinational that NI is a safe place for its employees?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Whatever about access surely the biggest obstacle to investment in NI is convincing Multinational that NI is a safe place for its employees?

I would imagine the big issue is 'stability'. Insisting on a 4 year vote on this concession to NI more or less wipes out any benefit of the concession vis a vis long term investment.
You'll now see the south making more and more contributions to infrastructure projects and societal ones as we economically integrate.

ELM327

jh79 wrote: »

Whatever about access surely the biggest obstacle to investment in NI is convincing Multinational that NI is a safe place for its employees?

Safe and Stable IMO

Thanks to the GFA it is currently safe but it is very unstable

[Deleted User]

ELM327 wrote: »

Safe and Stable IMO

Thanks to the GFA it is currently safe but it is very unstable

As long as you don't walk into the wrong estate or street!

Could you imagine the CEO of a multinational seeing the murals and "peace walls".

Bound to be some attempts at extortion too.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

As long as you don't walk into the wrong estate or street!

Could you imagine the CEO of a multinational seeing the murals and "peace walls".

Bound to be some attempts at extortion too.

It's a failed state jh79...it won't therefore prosper in its current form. Keep telling you this.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I would imagine the big issue is 'stability'. Insisting on a 4 year vote on this concession to NI more or less wipes out any benefit of the concession vis a vis long term investment.
You'll now see the south making more and more contributions to infrastructure projects and societal ones as we economically integrate.

Other factors too not easily solved. I believe racism is rife in loyalist areas, then you have homophobia from the same side too. Throw in some "Good Republicans and Loyalists" looking for a few quid for "security".

Hard sell in my eyes for multinationals with employee of various backgrounds.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a failed state jh79...it won't therefore prosper in its current form. Keep telling you this.

Have I ever praised it?

You keep forgetting that it's a failed state when the financial side of unification is brought up.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Have I ever praised it?

You keep forgetting that it's a failed state when the financial side of unification is brought up.

I certainly do not.

Don't start telling lies now.

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a failed state jh79...it won't therefore prosper in its current form. Keep telling you this.

Do you ever get the feeling that JH has never had a soda in his life?

ELM327

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a failed state jh79...it won't therefore prosper in its current form. Keep telling you this.

Its not even a state, it's a region of the UK.

The irish state left the UK in Dec 1921, creating two free states, one southern Ireland and one northern Ireland.

The southern statelet remained a free state until 1937's constitution and the later "Republic act" in the 40s.

The northern statelet opted out of said statehood that southern Ireland (later ROI) followed, one day after the Dec 1921 act and remained/s a region of the UK. It doesnt even have an official national flag beyond the flag of the union.

[Deleted User]

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Do you ever get the feeling that JH has never had a soda in his life?

You'll have to explain that one to me.

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

You'll have to explain that one to me.

As to be expected of course.

Soda bread with an Ulster fry...

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Other factors too not easily solved. I believe racism is rife in loyalist areas, then you have homophobia from the same side too. Throw in some "Good Republicans and Loyalists" looking for a few quid for "security".

Hard sell in my eyes for multinationals with employee of various backgrounds.

Even in my lifetime , homophobia was rife in politics here and society. With a concerted effort by people and parties who lobby for equal rights for all, and by convincing bigoted FG and FF politicians who vocally and physically blocked reform (still high ranking members of government who did that) we turned that around in short order. We also profoundly separated church from state (ongoing work on that)
I was heavily involved in that reform and equal rights , it's my legacy to my children and grand children.
We can do it again by achieving a UI. Let big business look after itself.

ELM327

BonnieSituation wrote: »

As to be expected of course.

Soda bread with an Ulster fry...

Soda bread or tatie bread, depending on which side of belfast you're from!

ittakestwo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I thought the 'unfettered access' thing was just a DUP delusion... downcow, ardently 'not' a DUPer seems to have bought into the delusion.

Politics. Last 4 years we heard nothing but we can't be treated differently to Britain. Now that they are they are putting a positive spin to it. But in 4 years time they will be back to the being treated differently ****e and vote against it. Stick to a narrative.

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Do you ever get the feeling that JH has never had a soda in his life?

Doesn't know what he/she is missing.

afro man

ELM327 wrote: »

Soda bread or tatie bread, depending on which side of belfast you're from!

Soda Bread - Tatie Bread Two different things ,, Tatie Bread is potato farls up North... Tattie Bread may be a Scottish version

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Doesn't know what he/she is missing.

Actually I'm not a fan of Soda Bread but it is available in other countries too such as the Republic.

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

Actually I'm not a fan of Soda Bread but it is available in other countries too such as the Republic.

Whoosh!

FrancieBrady

afro man wrote: »

Soda Bread - Tatie Bread Two different things ,, Tatie Bread is potato farls up North... Tattie Bread may be a Scottish version

Soda Farls are different to Soda Bread too...a panfried fadge of soda dough is heaven with a fry. No good for heart or waist.

Irish-Soda-Farls-2-of-5.jpg?resize=768%2C512&ssl=1

Irish-Soda-Farls-2-of-5.jpg?resize=768%2C512&ssl=1

grayzer75

afro man wrote: »

Soda Bread - Tatie Bread Two different things ,, Tatie Bread is potato farls up North... Tattie Bread may be a Scottish version

Can't beat an auld tatie stack - potato bread, bacon, potato bread, bacon, repeat....

BonnieSituation

afro man wrote: »

Soda Bread - Tatie Bread Two different things ,, Tatie Bread is potato farls up North... Tattie Bread may be a Scottish version

I do love a farl. Has me now craving something my brutal news agent doesn't stock. Thanks.

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Soda Farls are different to Soda Bread too...a panfried fadge of soda dough is heaven with a fry. No good for heart or waist.

They're glorious

[Deleted User]

So it's a UK variation on the Full Irish:D?

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

So it's a UK variation on the Full Irish:D?

Good Christ. Partitionists truly are the pits.

[Deleted User]

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Good Christ. Partitionists truly are the pits.

It's a joke! Lighten up.