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Off Topic Thread 5.0

[Deleted User]

Thread continued from here https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057835955&page=250

The usual rules apply. Non-rugby talk here. Consider this a social place, but like a pub, things like religion and politics can be divisive, so don't say things here you wouldn't say to someone's face in the pub. Sober

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ito

Neil3030 wrote: »

Yeah 10 years is about the going rate for negotiating EU membership it seems.

But I reckon the main political risk facing Scotland would come from Spain not wanting to give any ideas to Catalonia / The Basque Country. Or possibly even Belgium and Flanders.

Why is that? The majority of Spanish population is PRO EU, because we are stronger together. Spain wants unity, that is what EU means.

The main reason part of Catalonia wants to be independant is because they are richer than the rest of the country and they don't want to share, end of the story. Do not forget that one of EU pillars of EU, one of its foundations are solidarity and unity; sharing with the ones that are needed. And that is basically why they don't have any real supporters in Europe.

ClanofLams

Had a scan of the woman who was shot and died twitter’s page this morning, seriously disturbing reading, fully believed every conspiracy theory going. Hard to understand, guess some people are just especially vulnerable to that sort of stuff.

Synode

They absolutely are Police

Squidgy Black

FACECUTTR wrote: »

There was a guy with an M4 beside her aiming at the door and he was not police. That would have been an extremely difficult position to be in trying to stop an armed mob coming at what you are meant to protect.

Most definitely was police. There was 3 armed police with semi automatics standing in the crowd outside the door. You can see them signalling to the other officers after she gets shot, with the big massive Police letters across their chest and the badges...

Synode

FACECUTTR wrote: »

There was a guy with an M4 beside her aiming at the door and he was not police. That would have been an extremely difficult position to be in trying to stop an armed mob coming at what you are meant to protect.

You sure? Looked like police to me

FACECUTTR

Synode wrote: »

I've seen a few vids too and it's a bit mad considering there was also cops behind the woman. She absolutely should not have been going through the window, but to shoot her is way over the top. Guess it was in line with the way the Cops over there act I suppose. I've always looked at America as a bit of a shíthole but my word, it really is going down the toilet since Trump took over

There was a guy with an M4 beside her aiming at the door and he was not police. That would have been an extremely difficult position to be in trying to stop an armed mob coming at what you are meant to protect.

Synode

errlloyd wrote: »

I've seen a better video of that shooting. And I cannot imagine for one second a more justified use of force.

I've seen a few vids too and it's a bit mad considering there was also cops behind the woman. She absolutely should not have been going through the window, but to shoot her is way over the top. Guess it was in line with the way the Cops over there act I suppose. I've always looked at America as a bit of a shíthole but my word, it really is going down the toilet since Trump took over

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Police officer who shot the woman in the Capitol suspended the same week they announced the guys involved in the Blake shooting wouldn’t face further action.

I can’t imagine that’ll go down very well at all

I'd imagine it will go down very well with a lot of people in America, unfortunately.

errlloyd

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Police officer who shot the woman in the Capitol suspended the same week they announced the guys involved in the Blake shooting wouldn’t face further action.

I can’t imagine that’ll go down very well at all

I've seen a better video of that shooting. And I cannot imagine for one second a more justified use of force.

Dave_The_Sheep

Podge_irl wrote: »

But its those that come after him and attempt to ape him but do so more intelligently that are the concern.

This is what worries me. Imagine Trump, but actually coherent and smart. Far more dangerous.

irishbucsfan

Police officer who shot the woman in the Capitol suspended the same week they announced the guys involved in the Blake shooting wouldn’t face further action.

I can’t imagine that’ll go down very well at all

Podge_irl

errlloyd wrote: »

A lot of countries with this level of malfunction are newly formed democracies or countries with years of grossly underperforming economics and lacking in public infrastructure. Sometimes they are countries that had hastily drawn up constitutional structures that didn't have the checks and balances required to prevent political malfunction.

What is the USA's excuse? They're literally coming to the end of 10 or 11 years of straight economic growth. They're the wealthiest country in the world and have been for a century. They are one of the most mature democracies and have strong (possibly too strong) checks and balances within their political system. They have a relatively free media.

It's not a million miles away from the collapse of the Roman Republic.

Generals/personalities became more important than the Senate. Norms started to be broken by powerful men with fervent support. It ultimately culminated in Julius Caesar.

Of course Caesar was brilliant and Trump is a gibbering moron. But its those that come after him and attempt to ape him but do so more intelligently that are the concern.

Synode

molloyjh wrote: »

He has removed them. Attention is king.

It looks to me like they were removed by Twitter, not Trump.

Bazzo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think people can dismiss responsibility for the virus without having to engage too much in mental gymnastics but for a culture that worships freedom and democracy and sees America as a world leader in that regards I think the attempted coup is going to be quite jarring. Some of the loudest criticisms are coming from Republicans too.

Again - I doubt there will be much by way of consequences but this does feel different to previous scandals.

From what I've seen republicans always seem very concerned right up until it comes to voting(in an election or in Congress)

molloyjh

swiwi_ wrote: »

Who reckons trump will crack? If he wants to use Twitter he is obliged to remove his last 2 tweets before the ban...

He has removed them. Attention is king.

molloyjh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think people can dismiss responsibility for the virus without having to engage too much in mental gymnastics but for a culture that worships freedom and democracy and sees America as a world leader in that regards I think the attempted coup is going to be quite jarring. Some of the loudest criticisms are coming from Republicans too.

Again - I doubt there will be much by way of consequences but this does feel different to previous scandals.

We've seen too many "last straws" at this stage. I dont believe for a second that this is any more than another false dawn. People have been too riled up, things like QAnon have taken too much hold, there are too many extremist or fringe groups that can be rallied together. We've spent the last 5-6 years saying "surely now they'll see sense".

From the abuse of the disabled, the sexual assaults, the porn star, the non stop firings from the White House, the Russian thing, the BLM clashes, the C19 pandemic, the f-ing disinfectant, the support of white supremacist groups, the refusal to admit defeat and subsequent undermining of the entire American democratic system. All these things and more were lines that we kept seeing getting pushed and supporters just power on through. We expected so many of them to put a halt to the cult. To turn the moderates back. To put an end to the crazy. The people Trump has following him do not see these lines. If they did they wouldn't have occupied Gov buildings.

The real line will come when the Republican party truly begins to fall apart. If Trump decides to continue this nonsense after he leaves office and actually seek reelection in 4 years then that may cause enough of a split in the Republican party to force them to change. Lets not forget that there were still 138 members of Congress who voted in support of the Pennsylvania objection after what happened yesterday. Its only when faced with ruin that the party will be forced to change. Off the back of Trump getting so many votes, the self interest brigade will happily ride on those contails in the hope it will bring them what they crave. And as long as they do, they'll have enough of the public to support them.

swiwi_

Who reckons trump will crack? If he wants to use Twitter he is obliged to remove his last 2 tweets before the ban...

irishbucsfan

I think an interesting test of their love of democracy would be to field the question: Would you support a life appointment for Donald Trump

I think you’d see considerable support for that amongst republicans

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think people can dismiss responsibility for the virus without having to engage too much in mental gymnastics but for a culture that worships freedom and democracy and sees America as a world leader in that regards I think the attempted coup is going to be quite jarring. Some of the loudest criticisms are coming from Republicans too.

Again - I doubt there will be much by way of consequences but this does feel different to previous scandals.

6/10 Republican voters don’t see it as a threat and nearly half support the storming of the capital building according to an overnight YouGov poll.

So I don’t think they worship democracy so much any more

[Deleted User]

molloyjh wrote: »

Personal ambition doesn't care about that stuff. Do you think Ted Cruz will suddenly see the error of his ways, much less Don and his sons? And as long as they are there and allowed pedal their crap, people over there will suck it up.

Over 370,000 people have died in the US because of C19. That wasn't a wake up call. Trump still got more votes than any other previous candidate ever. If hundreds of thousands dead didn't open peoples eyes, then a few broken windows, stolen mail, a little bit of disrespect and 4 strangers deaths (3 of which were something like heart attacks from the sounds of it as opposed to direct action by authorities) aren't going to either.

I think people can dismiss responsibility for the virus without having to engage too much in mental gymnastics but for a culture that worships freedom and democracy and sees America as a world leader in that regards I think the attempted coup is going to be quite jarring. Some of the loudest criticisms are coming from Republicans too.

Again - I doubt there will be much by way of consequences but this does feel different to previous scandals.

molloyjh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I dunno, there might not be consequences over this but I think a line has been crossed over the last 24 hours. Two explosive devices found and 4 people dead, one shot dead inside the capital building. Imagine someone being shot in the Dail?

It wouldn't surprise me if nothing happens to be honest, but I do think we're in new territory here. This is a terrible look for America to be projecting around the world.

Personal ambition doesn't care about that stuff. Do you think Ted Cruz will suddenly see the error of his ways, much less Don and his sons? And as long as they are there and allowed pedal their crap, people over there will suck it up.

Over 370,000 people have died in the US because of C19. That wasn't a wake up call. Trump still got more votes than any other previous candidate ever. If hundreds of thousands dead didn't open peoples eyes, then a few broken windows, stolen mail, a little bit of disrespect and 4 strangers deaths (3 of which were something like heart attacks from the sounds of it as opposed to direct action by authorities) aren't going to either.

sydthebeat

it was an insurrection.... and pathetic faile done... but an insurrection none the less

these were armed terrorists, who had pipe bombs, molotov cocktails and machine guns

how they were allowed to actually walk through the barriers is beyond me.... complete lack of adequate security planning..

oh and Trump should be 25ed immediately

[Deleted User]

I dunno, there might not be consequences over this but I think a line has been crossed over the last 24 hours. Two explosive devices found and 4 people dead, one shot dead inside the capital building. Imagine someone being shot in the Dail?

It wouldn't surprise me if nothing happens to be honest, but I do think we're in new territory here. This is a terrible look for America to be projecting around the world.

[Deleted User]

have ye seen the video of the woman getting shot in the capitol buildings? what the hell possesses someone to try to get passed a barricade and get passed a man pointing a gun at you?

molloyjh

errlloyd wrote: »

A lot of countries with this level of malfunction are newly formed democracies or countries with years of grossly underperforming economics and lacking in public infrastructure. Sometimes they are countries that had hastily drawn up constitutional structures that didn't have the checks and balances required to prevent political malfunction.

What is the USA's excuse? They're literally coming to the end of 10 or 11 years of straight economic growth. They're the wealthiest country in the world and have been for a century. They are one of the most mature democracies and have strong (possibly too strong) checks and balances within their political system. They have a relatively free media.

Right now their political system relies heavily on polarisation. Focus on the other side so much you're guaranteed to vote for us. It allows a certain amount of certainty over where seats will go and who will have power and where, with only small variations in fortunes from election to election.

Add to that a terrible education system, a media that sells first and informs, well, somewhere way down the list, and a crazy obsession with personal wealth and gain. Throw in a few guns and a racial issue and you've got yourself a powder keg. What could possibly go wrong.

aloooof

OldRio wrote: »

Will the government ever learn?

Assuming they asked NPHET is a pretty low bar, and they didn't even meet that.

UK epidemiologist tweeted the following today, it's pretty worrying.

https://twitter.com/AdamJKucharski/status/1347128814976053249

errlloyd

A lot of countries with this level of malfunction are newly formed democracies or countries with years of grossly underperforming economics and lacking in public infrastructure. Sometimes they are countries that had hastily drawn up constitutional structures that didn't have the checks and balances required to prevent political malfunction.

What is the USA's excuse? They're literally coming to the end of 10 or 11 years of straight economic growth. They're the wealthiest country in the world and have been for a century. They are one of the most mature democracies and have strong (possibly too strong) checks and balances within their political system. They have a relatively free media.

dregin

OldRio wrote: »

Will the government ever learn?

No. Next!

OldRio

irishbucsfan wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1346896852604608515?s=20

Tony Holohan has said they did not

Will the government ever learn?

Zzippy

Stheno wrote: »

He has to retract the two tweets or he has a permanent ban

I would *love* to have been a fly on the wall when he was told that!