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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

ancapailldorcha

This thread is a continuation of the megathreads for discussing the presidency of Donald Trump and any matters which relate to this.

Please keep discussion civil and constructive and bear the charter in mind before posting.

Update 23/9/20:

Threadbanned users:

Outlaw Pete
everlast75
mcmoustache
lawrencesummers
RIGOLO

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aloyisious

The GOP member and Georgia election official, Gabriel Sterling, is playing a stormer live on CNN supporting the count workers and slamming Trump for causing the loss of the senate seats to the GOP. The final result will be some time yet as overseas [military and other] votes have to be counted yet.

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

Nuclear weapons tend to be destructive to everyone in the area. Denying the election results has proven not only to be ineffective at achieving their intended result, but beyond that, have proven self-destructive. They are, indeed, entirely on a different scale.

The people who have denied the election results are being sent into effective irrelevance, either voted out of power, or out of office entirely. They may refuse to accept it, but they can't deny the consequences. The people in favour of the nuclear option will certainly achieve their short-term goals. But like a nuclear winter, the long-term effects may prove far more destructive than the initial 'victorious' exhange. MAD is a thing both politically and militarily. We have evidence from the Senate as to what happens when one party goes nuclear and then the other follows. Why would we expect anything other from other such nuclear changes?

Failure is not an excuse for the attempt. This is the level Republicans are ready to go to now. Do you think that right now Cruz or any of them would hold off on what you consider nuclear because the Democrats don't when they tried TO stop the inauguration of a democratically elected president? Cruz is not irrelevant, Trump is not irrelevant given only a few Republicans are still willing to stand up to him. Heck if I remember correctly the Republican policy for the next 4 years was voted in as whatever the hell Trump says.

At what point do you accept that no matter what Democrats do the Republicans will escalate their own play book? How many bills has McConnell not even let a vote on. How many screaming that all they care about is for liberals to be hurt? How many votes have been gerrymandered to shreds. How many legitimate voters have been purged off of the rolls. The stacking of the supreme court.

Republicans are long past nuclear so I can't imagine anyone is worried about escalation. They don't need the Dems to escalate by themselves.

Foxtrol

Quin_Dub wrote: »

That's going to be the challenge for the GOP.

What kind of standard will these Primary challengers be?

If they are full-blown Q-Anon MAGA loons , they might have enough in a primary to win , but unless they are in a blood red State or district they might end up losing the seat for the GOP.

But the GOP kinda have to keep these people inside the tent.

If they lose them and they run as independents and syphon off a chunk of votes the GOP could lose seats all over the place.

In FPTP, all these fringe guys would need to do in swing States/Districts is draw away 5-10% of the GOP vote to sink them.

Already saw it in Arizona and Georgia in the Senate when they weren't even full loons. They were just forced to bow down to Trump and not contradict him or move to the center. Just like progressives purity test issues on the left, the more you push moderate folk to the extremes in the primary the more difficult it is to win in statewide or national issues, especially when they are stopped from pivoting post primary.

When you go full loon though nearly any state comes into play - see Doug Jones' win in Alabama.

aloyisious

It seems the Department of Justice has submitted a proposal to the White House to change the way they enforce Title VI of the Civil Rights Act according to an article on the LGBTQ Nation facebook page....

The section PRESENTLY prohibits recipients of federal funding from discriminating based on race, color, or national origin. It covers housing programs, employers, schools, hospitals, and other organizations and programs. The move could also have an impact on LGBTQ rights.

The proposed change was quietly submitted by the department last month and bypassed the normal federal rule-making process that requires the government to publish the change and allow for public comment. It was one of former Attorney General Bill Barr’s last acts.

The change would specifically eliminate “disparate impact” protections for minorities. This is one of the most important tools in civil rights cases, because it doesn’t require plaintiffs to prove intent to discriminate. Instead, it covers instances where policies have a different impact on minority groups.

For example, one of the most famous of these types of cases involved literacy tests for voting that was meant to prevent Black people from voting. Because they had frequently been forced out of schools, this put Black people at a disadvantage. The law didn’t specifically single out Black Americans, but its effects took away their right to vote more than others.

Manic Moran

Christy42 wrote: »

More nuclear than flat out attempting to ignore election results? These things seem to be in a different scale entirely so tit for tat doesn't seem to apply.

At a certain point someone has to govern or the US is screwed which is the exact opposite of what McConnell tries to do.

Nuclear weapons tend to be destructive to everyone in the area. Denying the election results has proven not only to be ineffective at achieving their intended result, but beyond that, have proven self-destructive. They are, indeed, entirely on a different scale.

The people who have denied the election results are being sent into effective irrelevance, either voted out of power, or out of office entirely. They may refuse to accept it, but they can't deny the consequences. The people in favour of the nuclear option will certainly achieve their short-term goals. But like a nuclear winter, the long-term effects may prove far more destructive than the initial 'victorious' exhange. MAD is a thing both politically and militarily. We have evidence from the Senate as to what happens when one party goes nuclear and then the other follows. Why would we expect anything other from other such nuclear changes?

StringerBell

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The reason this matters is because Biden can do the basics: he can get his nominations and his judges through. He can keep the government up and running. He can push forward the non controversial aspects of his legislative agenda (like shoring up existing provisions of the ACA, providing infrastructure / stimulus packages / etc).

There will be no radical sweeping changes, but Biden cannot be baldly obstructed in the way McConnell would prefer.

Absolutely, and they should ram through as many (qualified) judicial appointments as possible along with other things that would require just a simple majority.

Its a great day for the country though about 80 million of them won't agree!

Quin_Dub

aloyisious wrote: »

I expect Trump to play the crowd today and when he's happy the pot is boiling OVER, he'll slip away for a joyride by helicopter watching the fires from a safe distance. As some-one else said recently, if Rome had invented golf, Nero would have been away on a course while Rome burned.

I can imagine the smiles on a lot of faces if he "pardon's" himself leaving some-one to seek a U.S.S.C ruling on the constitutionality of the pardon. The Judges might say "there's nothing in the constitution to he or he can't issue a pardon to himself" and advise Congress that they have the power to alter that situation by a constitutional referendum.

Actually , if someone actually challenges it I would expect it to be overturned - The Precedent would be way too risky , even for this current SCOTUS.

However , if he does pardon himself , I'm not sure that any Federal case will actually even start to initiate the challenge - Comey came out yesterday saying that Trump shouldn't be federally prosecuted.

NY are not going to stop coming for him though.

aloyisious

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'm genuinely worried about later today in D.C.

It's a foregone conclusion that there will be violence , it's just a matter of the scale that is to be seen.

There's very little that Trump can do legislatively in the next few weeks - Anything he does do can be instantly repealed by Biden on the 20th.

But as other have said , he is going to go on a Pardoning spree - Definitely think he is going to try to pardon himself along with quite literally anyone else that asks.

I expect Trump to play the crowd today and when he's happy the pot is boiling OVER, he'll slip away for a joyride by helicopter watching the fires from a safe distance. As some-one else said recently, if Rome had invented golf, Nero would have been away on a course while Rome burned.

I can imagine the smiles on a lot of faces if he "pardon's" himself leaving some-one to seek a U.S.S.C ruling on the constitutionality of the pardon. The Judges might say "there's nothing in the constitution to SAY he or he can't issue a pardon to himself" and advise Congress that they have the power to alter that situation by a constitutional referendum.

extra gravy

https://twitter.com/KellyannePolls/status/877355893905666048?s=19

Me too!

Quin_Dub

breezy1985 wrote: »

Let's just say he is telling the truth what we are gonna end up with is Trump supporters becoming another Tea party and running parallel to established Reps. in 2 years at primaries

That's going to be the challenge for the GOP.

What kind of standard will these Primary challengers be?

If they are full-blown Q-Anon MAGA loons , they might have enough in a primary to win , but unless they are in a blood red State or district they might end up losing the seat for the GOP.

But the GOP kinda have to keep these people inside the tent.

If they lose them and they run as independents and syphon off a chunk of votes the GOP could lose seats all over the place.

In FPTP, all these fringe guys would need to do in swing States/Districts is draw away 5-10% of the GOP vote to sink them.

Tchaikovsky

Foxtrol wrote: »

There was already a good bit of violence last night despite the police treating them incredibly softly, the opposite of the escalation tactics used against BLM - no unlawful assembly calls, no riot gear, no kettling, no batton charges, no rubber bullets etc.

US cops treating right-wingers softly? Well I never!

breezy1985

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah, but to be fair that was Eric.

I mean, come on. Eric? When Eric is out with the message then you know they ran out of basically everyone else.

And, is it just me or have the court cases stopped at this stage. Where has Rudy and the rest of the Elite squad (or whatever they called themselves)?

Let's just say he is telling the truth what we are gonna end up with is Trump supporters becoming another Tea party and running parallel to established Reps. in 2 years at primaries

Tchaikovsky

Brief_Lives wrote: »

Eric Trump, the president's second son, has threatened to unseat Republicans that do not attempt to block the certification of Joe Biden as the 2020 presidential winner later today in the US Congress.

Ah God love the poor divil.

Foxtrol

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I'm more worried about what shenanigans he will get up to today! He is due to give a speech in Washington at this so called protest (6 pm our time?) And depending on what he says it could spell a very (even moreso) tumultuous time for America.

Hopefully there is no violence today but with the crowd that seem to be going (proud boys, militia types etc) it's hard to say what may happen.

There was already a good bit of violence last night despite the police treating them incredibly softly, the opposite of the escalation tactics used against BLM - no unlawful assembly calls, no riot gear, no kettling, no batton charges, no rubber bullets etc.

Leroy42

Yeah, but to be fair that was Eric.

I mean, come on. Eric? When Eric is out with the message then you know they ran out of basically everyone else.

And, is it just me or have the court cases stopped at this stage. Where has Rudy and the rest of the Elite squad (or whatever they called themselves)?

Brief_Lives

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

The 2 kids gave brief speeches at Trump's last ever rally speech in Georgia on Monday.

Eric Trump, the president's second son, has threatened to unseat Republicans that do not attempt to block the certification of Joe Biden as the 2020 presidential winner later today in the US Congress.

"I will personally work to defeat every single Republican Senator/Congressman who doesn’t stand up against this fraud - they will be primaried in their next election and they will lose," he tweeted on Tuesday night.

It came after he warned any lawmaker that did not attempt to thwart the vote that "their political career is over" because his father's political movement was "going nowhere".

Around 140 Republicans in the House of Representatives and at least 12 Republican senators say they will vote against Biden's certification. It's seen as a last-ditch effort that has no chance of succeeding because a majority in both chambers is required and Democrats control the House.

Many in Washington believe that Eric's older brother, Donald Jr, has presidential ambitions of his own.

In fact, before President Trump himself began mulling the idea of running for president again in 2024, Republicans had actively been talking about Don Jr taking the reins.

Tchaikovsky

Hurrache wrote: »

It's heading that way, with encouragement from reps like Mo Brooks. It's still amazing to see this stuff happen in America.

"We're not gonna complain. We're not gonna cry in the streets"

Tchaikovsky

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'm genuinely worried about later today in D.C.

It's a foregone conclusion that there will be violence , it's just a matter of the scale that is to be seen.

There's very little that Trump can do legislatively in the next few weeks - Anything he does do can be instantly repealed by Biden on the 20th.

But as other have said , he is going to go on a Pardoning spree - Definitely think he is going to try to pardon himself along with quite literally anyone else that asks.

The fear is that he'll be looking to do more things that can't be reversed by Biden, such as the auctioning off of public land in Alaska to oil drilling and forcing through death row executions. He may look to antagonize Iran further in the hope of destroying any chance of rectifying the nuclear deal and/or starting a war with them.

Timberrrrrrrr

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

With the rage ramped up even further for a manic Trump now, anyone else worried about what other atrocious things he'll do in the next 2 weeks?

I'm more worried about what shenanigans he will get up to today! He is due to give a speech in Washington at this so called protest (6 pm our time?) And depending on what he says it could spell a very (even moreso) tumultuous time for America.

Hopefully there is no violence today but with the crowd that seem to be going (proud boys, militia types etc) it's hard to say what may happen.

Hurrache

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'm genuinely worried about later today in D.C.

It's a foregone conclusion that there will be violence , it's just a matter of the scale that is to be seen.

It's heading that way, with encouragement from reps like Mo Brooks. It's still amazing to see this stuff happen in America.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1346823072612036608

Foxtrol

Cody montana wrote: »

Didn’t trump mess around for the first 2 years and lose the house?

Biden needs to ram everything through.
Reverse all of trumps bad policies ASAP.

Trump basically got nothing through congress aside from his tax cuts.

Nearly everything else was by executive order which Biden could reverse without the Senate.

What they need to do ASAP is try to get through the new voting rights act and potentially DC or PR statehood. With new gerrymandering they'll likely lose the house in 2022 so the key thing to do is think like republicans and think long term.

Quin_Dub

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

With the rage ramped up even further for a manic Trump now, anyone else worried about what other atrocious things he'll do in the next 2 weeks?

I'm genuinely worried about later today in D.C.

It's a foregone conclusion that there will be violence , it's just a matter of the scale that is to be seen.

There's very little that Trump can do legislatively in the next few weeks - Anything he does do can be instantly repealed by Biden on the 20th.

But as other have said , he is going to go on a Pardoning spree - Definitely think he is going to try to pardon himself along with quite literally anyone else that asks.

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

Does he feck want it. He only wants the job so Biden can’t.

What is it Biden said the other day? “I don’t know why he wants the job, he doesn’t wanna do the work!”

Oh he knows. We all know: money, power, influence, pardons and limited immunity from criminal prosecutions.

PropJoe10

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

With the rage ramped up even further for a manic Trump now, anyone else worried about what other atrocious things he'll do in the next 2 weeks?

The next batch of pardons will likely include his entire family, plus any other criminals that have helped him along the way. It's going to be a wild ride now!

Tchaikovsky

With the rage ramped up even further for a manic Trump now, anyone else worried about what other atrocious things he'll do in the next 2 weeks?

Tchaikovsky

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is amazing how quiet Jared and Ivanka have been. Hardly a peep out of them. This, at a time when the entire democratic system is under threat!

No, they are steering well clear to avoid the type of mud that you are talking about. Not sure it will work, but appears to be the strategy.

Even Don Jr had piped down a bit

The 2 kids gave brief speeches at Trump's last ever rally speech in Georgia on Monday.

briany

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sure, I can understand all of that, but the big change now is that Trump is very much a known quantity, unlike in 2015/16.

The GOP know they will not win the WH with Trump in 2024. While he will run on the basis of being robbed in 2020, many will draw comparisons to HC and how Trump seems to think it is his right.

You may of course be right, I have no cyrstal ball, but 2 further years in the wilderness, and being a proven loser is not a good combination.

He has lost that one thin that made him stand out, people gave him an unbelievable benefit of the doubt. He no longer had that.

I think the Republican base, in general, is beyond 'benefit of the doubt' and into full-blown indoctrination. They live in a parallel reality where Trump was cheated in the election and Hillary Clinton has been killing kids underneath a pizza parlour for their Adrenochrome. Is this a political atmosphere where truth and reason will prevail? Is this a bunch of people who seem ready to embrace a moderate candidate when there's already one waiting to give their extreme impulses giddy voice? Whether or not the Republican fathers think Trump or Trumpism could win in 2024 is immaterial because Newsmaxx and OANN will be telling their millions of viewers that the man is a shoe-in.

[Deleted User]

amandstu wrote: »

And 4 years older plus he doesn't want it anyway in all likelihood.

Does he feck want it. He only wants the job so Biden can’t.

What is it Biden said the other day? “I don’t know why he wants the job, he doesn’t wanna do the work!”

amandstu

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sure, I can understand all of that, but the big change now is that Trump is very much a known quantity, unlike in 2015/16.

The GOP know they will not win the WH with Trump in 2024. While he will run on the basis of being robbed in 2020, many will draw comparisons to HC and how Trump seems to think it is his right.

You may of course be right, I have no cyrstal ball, but 2 further years in the wilderness, and being a proven loser is not a good combination.

He has lost that one thin that made him stand out, people gave him an unbelievable benefit of the doubt. He no longer had that.

And 4 years older plus he doesn't want it anyway in all likelihood.

[Deleted User]

If they do get that second seat, we're also likely seeing two new states in the form of DC and Puerto Rico too.