ittakestwo wrote: » Great so you are a British citizen as you live within the UK and you are Irish as you are from the geographical area of Ireland. In the same way a person from the geographical area of England is a British citizen and also English. So unionist in Ireland can support the Irish Rugby team and celebrate the Patron Saint of Ireland St. Patrick in the same way an English person can support the English rugby team and celebrate their patron St George.
downcow wrote: » I’ll try again. I am british and Northern Irish. All this talk of nations not following international boundaries seems a crazy position. Is part of England in the scottish nation and vice versa. We could argue for ever about where lines used to be. There is hardly a border in the world that you won’t get someone disputing. I am really not sure how to answer you. You are blurring the lines between nations in international law and romantic nations. Ni is not a nation in international law but I can claim it as a nation in my head in the same way as you want to claim 36 counties as a nation. How long does somewhere need to exist in history to be one of these nations of yours ?
BonnieSituation wrote: » Speaking for us all are ya?
downcow wrote: » This is all nice silly stuff but a court recently ruled on the reality. Everyone born in ni is british, they then can claim Irish as their nationality if they wish, but british they are at birth. Unless of course the court can be added to all the other bodies I mentioned earlier as another one that doesn’t know it’s arse from its elbow.
downcow wrote: » Now this is ridiculous. I have a british passport.
ittakestwo wrote: » Is that best you can do. As stated multiple times a nation does not equal a sovereign state. UN lists Sovereign states. I am not calling Ireland a sovereign state but a Nation, in the same way England Scotland and Wales are nations but not sovereign states. And you yet again have not answered the question if British people on Great Britian can be part of the English, Scottish or Welsh nations why cant British people who live in Ireland be part of the Irish nation? Third time I have asked you this .... will you duck and dive for a third time? Why according to you do British people in NI get one identity less than British living in GB?
ELM327 wrote: » NI is many things, but it is not and will never be british. Britain and all derivatives refer to the landmass to the right of this island. NI is currently a part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Unionists can identify as British if they wish, but they are no more british than canadians or australians. They live in a part of Ireland that is part of the United Kingdom. Not Britain. That "small detail" will prove very important in the months to come as trade diverges between GB and NI. It's baiting using such well known terms known to flame war. My family was shot at by the british army in the north. People on the other side were blown up by republicans. Those days are behind us now and need to remain there. No one wants a return to the troubles. The realities of the GFA (which was opposed by the DUP) are that it allows some self determination to the NI Region. Both communities are enable to identify as they wish, Irish (although living in part of the UK) or British (although not living in Britain). There is also a mechanism for a border poll.
downcow wrote: » I honestly don’t know a single unionist who ever claimed the likes Gerry or Martin were british or any nationalist for that matter. That was in your paranoid head.
maccored wrote: » growing up in my community it was very common for soldiers to aim their guns at you as you walked down the street. first time they done it to me, I was 9, and walking on my own to school. they continued to do that any time I'd walk down the street until I left the place. All they were trying to do was intimidate, and considering that probably many of those people they pointed guns at went on to join the IRA, it was a bit of a stupid idea
jm08 wrote: » And that was exchanged for the Irish Government having a say in NI affairs which up to then was completely denied by the British Gov. Remember, ''Out, Out, Out.'' The recognition works both ways. Unionists would claim that up to the GFA anyone from NI was British - they now recognise that they can be ''Irish, British or both.''
downcow wrote: » Your starting point is rediculous. You want to start be assuming ni is part of the Irish nation. The United Nations says it’s not. The gfa says it’s not. The Eu says it’s not. Even your own bloody government says it’s not, but we still have to listen to posters on here who use as their starting point that ni is in the Irish nation
FrancieBrady wrote: » downcow isn't British, downcow 'identifies as British'. That needs to be respected too.
ELM327 wrote: » This is simply baiting. You're bordering on the ridiculous quotes from the 80's -90's unionists on the Garvaghy Road, "the queens people want to walk the queens highway". I hope you are being intentionally agressive. If not, your breed of unionism is the reason why a UI and an independant scotland are closer now than ever. As it stands, NI as a region has done well in the past 20 years to live in a fragile peace. Sentiments like yours (and equally hardline nationalism) are not welcome.
ittakestwo wrote: » Can unionists with your views follow 6 nations rugby? What team do they support in the 6 nations? or can unionist not follow the 6 nations as they have no representation as they dont see themselves as part of the Irish nation
ittakestwo wrote: » No but you are British living in an Irish nation. Again you wont answer why British people living in Great Britain are living within the English Welsh or Scottish nations but British people in Ireland are not living with in the Irish nation. This does not make sence and you have not explained it. Can unionists with your views follow 6 nations rugby? What team do they support in the 6 nations? or can unionist not follow the 6 nations as they have no representation as they dont see themselves as part of the Irish nation
chrissb8 wrote: » Anytime I'm passing through the North I am instantly filled with a sense of waste. Violence, death lines drawn in the sand that became trenches soon enough, and still the same state of affairs. The UK doesn't care about them and the republic is not too fussed either. A weird world within its own wherein the population seem to be stuck in a conflict that both sides aren't too sure of anymore as more time passes but continue with a cold war-like intensity none the less. A big failure in my mind and when people say it's better than it was. Well yes, not having to worry about paramilitary/military activity and bombs is certainly an upgrade.
jh79 wrote: » No different than MON or any other NI Republican who identifies as Irish. Their is no hierarchy except in the heads of insecure Republicans. If you want to be pedantic at least be consistent and refer to those in the North that identify as Irish in the same manner.
jh79 wrote: » It's sovereignty was disputed by the Republic up until the GFA. You'll have to make your own mind up on that. While insecure Republicans might pretend otherwise since the GFA there is no longer any ambiguity. It's British as long as the citizens want it to be and all parties bar the dissidents have accepted this. Having an aspiration to change it doesn't change the fact that having agreed to the GFA you have accepted that NI is British.
jh79 wrote: » How is it baiting? The GFA legitimized NI as part of the UK. In response to SIPO MLD admitted there is a British and Irish SF and British SF have worked for Westminster ever since. Insecure Republicans need to come to terms with what the realities of the GFA are.
downcow wrote: » So now it’s a coach full of women? Anyhow let me try again with you and if I patronise you then so be it as I am not sure you are getting why this would happen. I missed the year but I am guessing it was in the troubles. As for your trip being women; a major tactic of the ira was planting incendiary devices in department stores. Most of these came in in women’s handbags or tucked into prams etc. Many of them came along with shopping trips from the south. That soldier would have been briefed either that day or very recently with suspects and info from informers about who to look out for. Whilst lying in the ditch he would use his rifle sights to scan the buses and cars looking for known republicans (and yes that could certainly include ira bomber women operating under the cover of a shopping trip). So it’s completely logical to me that ha would scan along his side of the coach looking for suspects. (I do completely understand that that could appear to a young boy in the coach as threatening) But remember the outcome of missing these bombers getting through. Babies murdered in prams, unborn children blown up, young girls blown to pieces. Growing up in my community which was under attack from some of your community I have to say. Yes I understand your problem that day but you need to just get over it. That soldiers same actions, maybe with the next car or bus, may have saved a seven year old in banbridge getting blown to pieces. Some of you guys need to get real. Have a dig and see how many kids and babies the ira killed. They needed stopped and thank god the were and thank his god the bravery of those young men who protected us
jh79 wrote: » It's sovereignty was disputed by the Republic up until the GFA. You'll have to make your own mind up on that.
While insecure Republicans might pretend otherwise since the GFA there is no longer any ambiguity. It's British as long as the citizens want it to be and all parties bar the dissidents have accepted this. Having an aspiration to change it doesn't change the fact that having agreed to the GFA you have accepted that NI is British.
jm08 wrote: » So, according to you, Northern Ireland was not legitimate up to the GFA?
jh79 wrote: » Yes the GFA provided a mechanism to respect the wishes of the majority and currently that is that NI is part of the UK. Downcow saying he is a British person living in the UK is a fact that needs to be respected as per the GFA. It's not "baiting".
FrancieBrady wrote: » The GFA didn't legitimise it, the GFA provided a mechanism where people could agree to respect the wishes of a majority, while still If you knew anything about it you would know that is why it succeeded. Those aspiring to to Irish unity had their aspirations legitimised in the unique agreement. MLMD stated the obvious, that SF operate in two jurisdictions. That you use a familiar belligerent Unionist taunt is no surprise really.
downcow wrote: » So now it’s a coach full of women? Anyhow let me try again with you and if I patronise you then so be it as I am not sure you are getting why this would happen. I missed the year but I am guessing it was in the troubles. As for your trip being women; a major tactic of the ira was planting incendiary devices in department stores. Most of these came in in women’s handbags or tucked into prams etc. Many of them came along with shopping trips from the south.
That soldier would have been briefed either that day or very recently with suspects and info from informers about who to look out for. Whilst lying in the ditch he would use his rifle sights to scan the buses and cars looking for known republicans (and yes that could certainly include ira bomber women operating under the cover of a shopping trip). So it’s completely logical to me that ha would scan along his side of the coach looking for suspects. (I do completely understand that that could appear to a young boy in the coach as threatening)
Growing up in my community which was under attack from some of your community I have to say. Yes I understand your problem that day but you need to just get over it. That soldiers same actions, maybe with the next car or bus, may have saved a seven year old in banbridge getting blown to pieces. Some of you guys need to get real. Have a dig and see how many kids and babies the ira killed. They needed stopped and thank god the were and thank his god the bravery of those young men who protected us
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://we.vanillicon.com/v2/e050b53be62f0ae2404c620976170938.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w4.vanillicon.com/v2/4b1a2e86cedae1628937f4503f2281da.svg)