FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

Bishop of hope wrote: »

If in doubt, the medical.
Don't get me wrong, I accept its confusing surely.
I had pints myself and did most things on the govt allowed list, but I stayed away from crowds and mingling outside my own contacts.
Me nor any of my contacts either business or social has had covid or close contact even.
So if the govt rules are followed as given I'd say there's a good chance of staying safe.

Do you think we should close the NI border?

If depends.I would wonder what the chances of an all Ireland approach versus the boarder closure approach would be. At this stage nothing should be off the table. I hope to God the medical staff can maintain momentum and the case numbers do not translate to a proportional increase in deaths. But that may be wishful thinking. I had a quiet Christmas and tried to shop at off peak times. I have alot of friends living abroad who chose not to return due to elderly parents. We are hoping that end of summer can mean a group trip but that's looking like a pipeline dream now.

smurgen wrote: »

If depends I would wonder what the chances of an all Ireland approach versus the boarder closure approach would be. At this stage nothing should be off the table. I hope to God the medical staff can maintain momentum and the case numbers do not translate to a proportional increase in deaths. But that may be wishful thinking. I had a quiet Christmas and tried to shop at off peak times. I have alot of friends living abroad who chose not to return due to elderly parents. We are hoping that end of summer can mean a group trip but that's looking like a pipeline dream now.

We know, we aren't going to get an all Ireland approach firstly.
The politiciansin the north need to deal with there and ours here.
So if in a month say either jurisdiction gets its numbers back to manageable and low levels and the other doesn't, then surely it would be prudent to restrict travel between the two.
A lot of traffic that returned to Ireland from the UK after the Xmas travel ban came in, came through NI, not Dublin.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Why would it?
If nmphet asked for it what would you say then?
2 questions there for you

1. It wont achieve anything, and would be impossible to police. Both jurisdictions ability to make a hames of it seems equal to me.

2. I would disagree with them.

RandomViewer

Bishop of hope wrote: »

If in doubt, the medical.
Don't get me wrong, I accept its confusing surely.
I had pints myself and did most things on the govt allowed list, but I stayed away from crowds and mingling outside my own contacts.
Me nor any of my contacts either business or social has had covid or close contact even.
So if the govt rules are followed as given I'd say there's a good chance of staying safe.

Do you think we should close the NI border?

I'd a clean run since last April, couple of in laws caught it but they were the exception, work was clear for 8 months no cases,quite a few tests but the last couple of weeks things have changed, know of multiple cases near me and a cluster where I come from originally,
It's going to be harder to ride this one out,

[Deleted User]

Bishop of hope wrote: »

If in doubt, the medical.
Don't get me wrong, I accept its confusing surely.
I had pints myself and did most things on the govt allowed list, but I stayed away from crowds and mingling outside my own contacts.
Me nor any of my contacts either business or social has had covid or close contact even.
So if the govt rules are followed as given I'd say there's a good chance of staying safe.

Do you think we should close the NI border?

That is what we all want. People to use a bit of cop on and mind themselves and their nearest and dearest.
My dear departed grandy used say that the 11th commandment was “Poor man, mind thyself”.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

1. It wont achieve anything, and would be impossible to police. Both jurisdictions ability to make a hames of it seems equal to me.

2. I would disagree with them.

Impossible to police?

So basically that's agreeing that if govt advice was followed we'd be OK, but people don't follow it which is what I've been saying all along.
It's, impossible to police these restrictions period if people ignore the advice, which is what's happening.

RandomViewer

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Impossible to police?

So basically that's agreeing that if govt advice was followed we'd be OK, but people don't follow it which is what I've been saying all along.
It's, impossible to police these restrictions period if people ignore the advice, which is what's happening.

The border isn't some straight line with clear markings that could be guarded by a couple of guys with beer bellies in a 2013 Hyundai estate, there are houses and farmyards that actually in both jurisdictions, theres major roads, minorroads unapproved roads, backlanes and dirt paths, Did you think everything just entered through Muff?

RandomViewer wrote: »

The border isn't some straight line with clear markings that could be guarded by a couple of guys with beer bellies in a 2013 Hyundai estate, there are houses and farmyards that actually in both jurisdictions, theres major roads, minorroads unapproved roads, backlanes and dirt paths, Did you think everything just entered through Muff?

I accept that, but if there's a ban then every Northern car is easily identified down here and vice versa. Cars could be seized and owners fined heavily before they're returned to them if they're caught here for shopping trips or friend or family visits etc.
It would be a big deterrent to traveling.
No county has straight borders or roads even.

The muff reference is good:)

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Impossible to police?

So basically that's agreeing that if govt advice was followed we'd be OK, but people don't follow it which is what I've been saying all along.
It's, impossible to police these restrictions period if people ignore the advice, which is what's happening.

What would happen if the airports were closed? Do you think people would be taking planes for a spin themselves?

Do you know what a border is? It is only effective if it is closed....unless you are suggesting a wall from east to west, 'closing it' means policing it.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

We know, we aren't going to get an all Ireland approach firstly.
The politiciansin the north need to deal with there and ours here.
So if in a month say either jurisdiction gets its numbers back to manageable and low levels and the other doesn't, then surely it would be prudent to restrict travel between the two.
A lot of traffic that returned to Ireland from the UK after the Xmas travel ban came in, came through NI, not Dublin.

Take diplomatic means to cut off airtraffic to the island for 5 months. Ramp up vaccine rollout to maximum levels. Fire all the financial muscle needed at it. Could save us months of time at the tail end of the year and therefore help us claw back on economic activity.

smurgen wrote: »

Take diplomatic means to cut off airtraffic to the island for 5 months. Ramp up vaccine rollout to maximum levels. Fire all the financial muscle needed at it. Could save us months of time at the tail end of the year and therefore help us claw back on economic activity.

That means, sealing the border with NI.
The rest is just pie in the sky, literally it all.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

That means, sealing the border with NI.
The rest is just pie in the sky, literally it all.

Not what some posters here would have you believe. I thought it was SF that were in charge of the north's approach to covid the way they were speaking.

PearseCork92

The wheels are coming off the 'look how brillunt the government is at covid' bandwagon. I'm not celebrating, it sucks for the country, and there is a painful month ahead of us.

For humility's sake, you'd think that the bualadh bos to Leo and Martin crowd would pipe down and admit there were howlers made, and that elements of the strategy were p*ss weak compared to other countries. But no, we have the usual gang pointing at the horizon talking about sectarianism in Israel when it's pointed out certain countries are already leaving us in the dust on vaccination.

Broken record stuff.

Callan kicks the year on RTE1 again now. Genius. Big Phil gets trashed.

As someone said yesterday on a 2020 review program, Phil will never be asked to contribute to a book on how to deliver public apologies.

I am wondering why none of the Irish newspapers have picked up on this story? Must have seen a hundred pictures of the same shebeen yesterday but some of our betters seem to have their news swept under the rug.

"Gardai have launched an internal investigation into a Christmas drinks party in Cork, which was allegedly organised by officers contrary to regulations aimed at preventing the spread of Covid-19.

The inquiry began after a garda who had left the event was arrested on suspicion of drink-driving after crashing into a van in Cork city in mid-December."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/christmas-party-for-cork-gardai-sparks-inquiry-3wfdcq98k

smurgen wrote: »

I am wondering why none of the Irish newspapers have picked up on this story? Must have seen a hundred pictures of the same shebeen yesterday but some of our betters seem to have their news swept under the rug.

"Gardai have launched an internal investigation into a Christmas drinks party in Cork, which was allegedly organised by officers contrary to regulations aimed at preventing the spread of Covid-19.

The inquiry began after a garda who had left the event was arrested on suspicion of drink-driving after crashing into a van in Cork city in mid-December."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/christmas-party-for-cork-gardai-sparks-inquiry-3wfdcq98k

The important thing is though, 'which party might they be affiliated to?'.

Bríd Smith wading into the clonee shooting and getting roasted a bit.
Seems there's a lot of support for the Garda on that one at present anyway.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1343199789364683&id=199320167085990

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Bríd Smith wading into the clonee shooting and getting roasted a bit.
Seems there's a lot of support for the Garda on that one at present anyway.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1343199789364683&id=199320167085990

Would it not be more thread appropriate to post a government response to it? Like Jack Chambers getting a bit of a roasting on it too?

https://twitter.com/jackfchambers/status/1345451907922407426

McMurphy

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Bríd Smith wading into the clonee shooting and getting roasted a bit.
Seems there's a lot of support for the Garda on that one at present anyway.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1343199789364683&id=199320167085990

I've seen the videos of him swinging a knife/machete or whatever the hell it was at the gards who attended the scene, I've also seen the video of the numerous Garda cars following him trying to persuade him to drop his weapon.

I'm about the least racist person you will ever meet, but to me It doesn't matter if your man was white, black, yellow or purple, if you're going to threaten the lives of others, especially Gardai, then that's a repercussion you'll face.

This racial bullshyt isnt the path we are headed down I hope, there's enough division and diversity here already without Brid trying to stoke the flames.

She needs to ask herself, if your man George was wearing a pair of gloves, and a balaclava, therefore making his skin colour unknown to the police, would he still have been dealt with the same way for swinging a knife at cops? Of course he would.

Haven't read the Facebook comments but she is hopefully being torn a new one after that opening comment.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Would it not be more thread appropriate to post a government response to it? Like Jack Chambers getting a bit of a roasting on it too?

https://twitter.com/jackfchambers/status/1345451907922407426

Fair enough, it just popped on my feed because someone I know commented on it.
I wasn't looking for anything on it.

Someone please get Eamon Ryan back to bed.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1345689783583072296?s=19

Nevin Parsnipp

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Bríd Smith wading into the clonee shooting and getting roasted a bit.
Seems there's a lot of support for the Garda on that one at present anyway.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1343199789364683&id=199320167085990

Never have much time for this Beuer but putting both clogs into this sensitive issue is just not helpful.

Another populist leftie desperately sitting on the fence.

I truly hope this shower never get near the levers of power.

You get the impression that the HSE and FFG government took the whole 2 weeks of Christmas off.
The numbers are all over the place because the 'old computer system' could not handle anything above 2000.
Contact tracing has failed yet again in their first real stress test of the winter.
The vaccine rollout has not been planned and is moving at a snails pace.
They have no idea where we are right now.

Nevin Parsnipp

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

You get the impression that the HSE and FFG government took the whole 2 weeks of Christmas off.
The numbers are all over the place because the 'old computer system' could not handle anything above 2000.
Contact tracing has failed yet again in their first real stress test of the winter.
The vaccine rollout has not been planned and is moving at a snails pace.
They have no idea where we are right now.

The tools who went out and ignored the "limit your contacts" advice have to take some criticism as well.

Are you saying the front line staff in our hospitals who have been under unprecedented pressure for the best part of a year took the Christmas period off ?

Is that what you are saying ?

Nevin Parsnipp wrote: »

The tools who went out and ignored the "limit your contacts" advice have to take some criticism as well.

Are you saying the front line staff in our hospitals who have been under unprecedented pressure for the best part of a year took the Christmas period off ?

Is that what you are saying ?

Eh no, calm yourself. I did not mention long suffering front line staff heroes who have to put up with HSE bureaucracy and government inaction every single year.

This is from November 2019 (before Covid 19)

https://www.inmo.ie/Home/Index/217/13549

2019 has seen the highest number of patients on trolleys in any year since records began – despite it still being November.

As of today, 108,364 people have gone without beds in 2019 so far – breaking 2018’s record high of 108,227, with a full month left to go in the year.

The INMO is calling for extra staffing and an increase in hospital, homecare, and community capacity to deal with the problem.

“Winter has only just begun and the record is already broken. These statistics are the hallmark of a wildly bureaucratic health service, which is failing staff and patients alike.

“We take no pleasure in having to record these figures for a decade and a half. We know the problem, but we also know the solutions: extra beds in hospitals, safe staffing levels, and more step-down and community care outside of the hospital.

“No other developed country faces anything close to this trolley problem. It can be solved, but a strong political agenda to drive change is needed.

“The INMO has written to the health and safety authorities this week to try force a change from the employers. Hospitals should be a place of safety and care – not danger.”

Their annual plea for help. Successive ministers for health (Leo, Simon etc) and HSE management have ignored these problems year on year.
The least they could do is step up when we are close to a crisis in our health service.
We do get lame excuses like this...

The large volume of positive tests means there is a delay in formal reporting, which is how an estimated 9,000 cases have not yet been reported.

The computer system for notifying infectious diseases is old and was designed to report sporadic cases on a weekly basis - not for the kind of numbers that are now being seen.

RandomViewer

smurgen wrote: »

I am wondering why none of the Irish newspapers have picked up on this story? Must have seen a hundred pictures of the same shebeen yesterday but some of our betters seem to have their news swept under the rug.

"Gardai have launched an internal investigation into a Christmas drinks party in Cork, which was allegedly organised by officers contrary to regulations aimed at preventing the spread of Covid-19.

The inquiry began after a garda who had left the event was arrested on suspicion of drink-driving after crashing into a van in Cork city in mid-December."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/christmas-party-for-cork-gardai-sparks-inquiry-3wfdcq98k

Wonder was it the old "Are you having a pint or transfer to Tallaght ,guard?"

https://www.donegaldaily.com/2020/12/27/donegal-garda-suspended-amid-pub-lock-in-allegations/amp/

James Brown

Nevin Parsnipp wrote: »

Never have much time for this Beuer but putting both clogs into this sensitive issue is just not helpful.

Another populist leftie desperately sitting on the fence.

I truly hope this shower never get near the levers of power.

Cliche and inaccurate. Smith is very outspoken on a number of issues. Agree or not she does not play both sides in any debate.

blanch152

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Eh no, calm yourself. I did not mention long suffering front line staff heroes who have to put up with HSE bureaucracy and government inaction every single year.

This is from November 2019 (before Covid 19)

https://www.inmo.ie/Home/Index/217/13549

Their annual plea for help. Successive ministers for health (Leo, Simon etc) and HSE management have ignored these problems year on year.
The least they could do is step up when we are close to a crisis in our health service.
We do get lame excuses like this...

And trolley numbers were the lowest ever in December 2020, so shouldn’t you be acknowledging that improvement? Or are you just looking for something different to complain about?

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Cliche and inaccurate. Smith is very outspoken on a number of issues. Agree or not she does not play both sides in any debate.

Have to agree with you there. She certainly has her own mind, but it far from normal peoples thinking.