One eyed Jack wrote: » There’s a correlation between race and social status if someone wants there to be one.
There are many correlations can be made such as any particular demographics attitudes to education, attitudes to their place within society in terms of their perception of class, their attitudes towards their own people, their attitudes towards other people, and all these are contributing factors which influence social mobility so much as to say there are ‘certain’ racial/cultural groups who are at the bottom, and some who are at the top. You’ll be familiar I suppose with how Chinese children fare in Irish education, I suppose I’d include Eastern European children in that too - genuinely excel far and above Irish children when it comes to mathematics, but far below Irish children when it comes to the main language used in Irish schools. No amount of replacements for corporal punishment can address that discrepancy.
Migrants are already at average Irish levels because the vast majority of migrants are as well educated as Irish people, with the main barrier apart from their qualifications not being recognised in this country is the language barrier.
Then there are those migrants, and I get what Wibbs means by “importing an underclass”, with all the associated problems of their associating themselves with an underclass of Irish society which already exists here (their common understanding being opportunities for anti-social and criminal behaviour), and it’s only those people really, or that class of people, which need to be targeted as a whole, rather than assuming by default that migrants are entering the country to take advantage of our generous social welfare system, when the criminal element don’t need it, and the employable element don’t want it.
I prefer to focus on the potential of the employable element than get bogged down in trying to change some people’s habits of a lifetime. I’ve no interest in breaking my balls at that craic, and in my experience the people who pretend they do care about those people whom they claim can’t fend for themselves (or those who are left behind as you say), are as much a drain on society as the criminal element, only for the fact that they’re legitimately funded by the various Government departments and the HSE, and they don’t actually want any kind of social progress or policy to interfere with their income.
Tell me how wrote: » Irish live in other countries. Including me at the moment
[Deleted User] wrote: » If someone wants there to be one? That strikes me as odd. If Africans are coming into a western nation without the education/skills (or financial resources to get set up), then they'll likely end up at the bottom of society in terms of income. Their race is a factor when comparing them with other similar groups... it's not a matter of deciding to focus on race entirely, because that would be a matter of racism. Which I hope you're not suggesting about those here... (I don't think you are, but that opening sentence made me.. think along those lines)
[Deleted User] wrote: » Well, first off, I mentioned corporal punishment in regards to anti-social behavior... not in regards to any other aspect of society. Context is important. Which I believe you know, and yet, you decided to put that in. Seems strange to me. Secondly, I don't see how you're disagreeing with me about social mobility and the difficulties those migrants face, when they enter a nation at that level.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Hold up. Their educational qualifications, (if they exist at all) do matter in terms of quality. I've taught at various levels of education abroad, and there are gaping holes in many educational systems. We might criticise our own education for being lacking, but it's far better funded and fit for purpose than what you'll find in most third world countries. Getting a qualification in most African colleges is not comparable with an Irish one, except, in some cases where that African college has received the funding and recognition for being honest, and effective in teaching. As an example, say from teaching at University level in Mainland China, it is extremely common for exam grades to be 'marked up' due to being an ethnic minority. Each semester I receive a list of student numbers who are minorities, and are told to give them special attention. Just as it's still quite common for Professors to be bribed into passing or giving better marks to students (in spite of the lackluster/selective anti-corruption initiatives by the CCP). Education is not equal across the world. Not simply the implementation and transferal of knowledge, but there is so much corruption in many countries, which is why there is so much emphasis within EU Educational qualifications for commonly acceptable standards.Skilled/educated (to a reasonably high standard) can prove their worth.. and ability easily enough to be comparable or better than Irish people. Sure. But the majority of migrants we've received who are on the bottom of the economic poll didn't enter because they were extremely skilled/educated people.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Another "hold on" moment. It's okay to take them as a whole for other causes, but not for consideration that they're seeking handouts or... Seems odd.
[Deleted User] wrote: » In any case, I don't believe that most are coming here with the aim of getting on welfare. Oh, I do believe that they're aware of the benefits of living in a welfare state, and want the improvements in health, education, etc when compared to their own country.. but I don't see anything wrong with that. The problem is that there aren't the jobs for them. I've said this multiple times already. We don't have a manufacturing base, or large enough service economy (which is where low skilled people typically end up working in), to cover the needs of so many low-skilled migrants. Those industries aren't growing, and we already have a native population of low skilled people wanting those positions. In addition, those positions are typically temporary, unreliable, and provide a rather low income for people who have no resources from a family network (here) to help them get by. As such, government supplements are required... which still won't provide them with enough to be comparable to the average Middle Class Irish family, which they want to experience.
[Deleted User] wrote: » I honestly don't have much of an opinion on that. Every nation has a portion of the population who fail or never really attempt to succeed. I see little reason to increase the population of such people in Ireland.. Yes, I do actually believe that most migrants who come to Ireland want to succeed... but I don't believe Ireland will ever have the resources available to help them to succeed.. and each failure means more people staying on welfare or other government supplements (both while attempting to succeed, and if/when they fail to achieve parity with others). You see, I look at the investment angle of all this. Low skilled/educated people entering Ireland, even should they speak the language, will still need years to bring their educational qualifications in line with European/Irish standards. They'll need government support while they're studying full-time, or an extended period of support, if it's done part-time. For them, and their family, should they have one. Then, there's the difficulty in getting work.. I'm sure you're aware of just how often people graduate to find that their major is no longer in demand... or never was... but expecting to easily find work thereafter. Nope. Most of these migrants are a poor investment. I don't see the upside for the nation. Again, I've no issue with EU migration or those from outside the EU with skills/education that is in demand... but I see little practical point in allowing immigration of poorly skilled labor. For Ireland. For bigger industrial nations, like Germany, I can see reasons for wanting it... but nope. Not for Ireland.
One eyed Jack wrote: » I don’t think anyone is racist for focusing on race as a determinant factor in anyone’s ability to contribute to society or their ability to thrive economically or socially. I just think it’s not a factor as there is no correlation between the colour of a person’s skin and their intellect or abilities.
I’m the same when it comes to people with disabilities - their disability isn’t a factor in their ability to contribute positively to society or to thrive in society.
A person’s race or disability or socioeconomic background doesn’t make any difference if they don’t already have the ability or education or skills or indeed the financial resources to provide for themselves or their families - they’ll either end up at the bottom, or they’ll never get off the bottom without some form of support.
I genuinely thought you were mentioning it in the context of education because immediately I thought of corporal punishment in terms of its use in Irish and Chinese education - I would suggest that arguably it produces a more disciplined student, and that’s where I thought you were going with that one - something which I would have agreed with, and also our abandonment of “the 3 Rs” in favour of a more liberal education system was something of a step backwards IMO.
Yes, that’s the point I was making regarding your suggesting that the resources aren’t there to bring every immigrant up to the average Irish standard. The point I was making is that most migrants are already at the average Irish standard.
That seems to be the main point of opposition though? That they’re coming here to take advantage of our generous welfare system.
What we have, is an economy dependent upon a handful of foreign multinationals that if they were to up sticks and relocate to another country in the morning would devastate our already fragile economy. What immigration brings with it is also innovation, and if they are provided with support - employment, enabling them to contribute to our economy and to society, lessening our economic dependency upon foreign multinationals remaining here in perpetuity. We made that mistake how many times now before?
I’m looking at the investment angle on this too, which is why I think we absolutely do have the resources to help people succeed, no matter where they’re from or their socioeconomic background or any of the rest of it. We don’t have to put ourselves in a position where we fritter resources away on people who don’t want to succeed and projects which have no chance of offering a return on our investment (hence why I listed the projects which were undertaken already and vast amounts of resources and capital invested in them before they were ultimately abandoned, and I’d include the National Broadband Plan in that too, and now I think of it Ennis as the Information Age Town :rolleyes: ). Point being, we’ve already frittered away billions, billions on ridiculous investments that never had any hope of a return on investment. It’s not that we don’t already have the money or the resources or the ability to invest in people who will contribute to the future of our indigenous economic growth that isn’t based upon fantasy economics and hoping for the best that the handful of multinationals which are currently propping up our failure of an economy will remain here out of some sense of misguided loyalty. It’s that people lack the motivation to change what is familiar to them, or what works... until their hand is forced and then they feel resentful about a change they thought they had no control over.
Multiculturalism on the back of colonisation, invasion and empire building has been a part of human society since forever and in damned near every case the natives did badly out of it and in the majority of cases caused division and racism as you note(though for the majority of European history racism was far less in play as the overwhelming majority of Europeans were White, with some Arab in Spain and Greece). Surely not something we should emulate?
Actually the Basque link is now seen as old hat and incorrect, though oft repeated. It was based on a rough sketch of the haplogroup R1b which is commonly found at the edges of western Europe. When they look at the subclades Basques have quite a different type to the Irish. Basques are mostly Spanish/French with some isolated gene differences because of their isolation(and they're different to Basques who lived 4000 years ago). As for knowing our history: The native Irish are almost entirely, well natives, farmers who came in during the Bronze and Iron ages overwhelming the earlier hunter gatherer peoples. We're not "celts". Even the idea of celts owes more to 19th century nationalist thinking than any historical reality. The Romans and the Greeks who knew of them at the time could barely make up their mind what or who or where the Keltoi were. Later mixes came from Vikings and English, both on the back of conquest. As for how much of an impact that mix was? Professor Gianpiero Cavalleri, who helped to devise the study, told TheJournal.ie: “In terms of the genetic diversity for Irish people, there’s actually very little. And the diversity we do see is very subtle.”
A) the western empire had already crumbled and the hermit traffic was very much going the other direction, with Irish missionaries to Britain and then Europe, getting as far as Italy, Spain, Kiev and the like. The "Land of Saints and Scholars" was imported culturally, but not by mass migrations of people and was very much an export market on that score. I can give you a long list of Irish missionaries into Europe, the list of Europeans that came here is tiny by comparison(and most would be Welsh, non Saxon English and Scots).
Actually there isn't and outside of the plantations(hardly a recipe for peace and harmony) what movements did occur were absolutely tiny in number. French Huguenots were one of the largest and that was under 5000 people. There are Jews here from the late Medieval, but again in tiny numbers(they seemed to have fitted right in with the locals, with a Jewish major being elected to the office of Mayor in Cork in the 1600's IIRC. Something that would have been vanishingly rare in the rest of Europe).
"Whatever about an "immaculate culture of Christians" Ireland is one of most "native" nations in Europe and when it hasn't been in the case of English interference it didn't do the locals any good, nor many of the migrants and the Scots demographic are very close to us genetically, the same "race".
Bambi wrote: » I don't you worry I have enough of a grasp of history to see through your nonsense.
Wibbs wrote: » Well I'd not go so far as to say nonsense, more like oft repeated and believed historical half truths. Celts being a classic example. The Irish aren't nor were ever celts. Certainly not as a population. Even culturally an expert in the field can look at a "celtic" object found in a dig and be able to narrow down where in Europe it originally came from. Saying the Irish are/were celts is akin to saying the Irish are Italians just because they were Christian. The Basque/Irish connection another example. It was jumped upon a few years ago on the back of rough interpretations of genetic clades and repeated until it became a bar stool truth. Latterly the idea that Ireland was a genetic melting pot of peoples long before the Celtic Tiger* has gained some favour, but again the evidence shows this to be at best a half truth at most utterly wrong. A small bunch of islands like Orkney with a tiny population has more genetic diversity and evidence of migration than the whole country of Ireland. *we're not Celts and we never had Tigers outside of zoos, which should have given us some food for thought about that daftness.
Vieira82 wrote: » Name me: 5 Irish Dishes that you can say are 100% Irish 5 Irish Deserts that you can say are 100% Irish 5 Irish Drinks that you can say are 100% Irish and lastly 5 Irish Culture Traits you can 100% say they are Irish and not taken or influenced from somewhere or some other culture.
DeadHand wrote: » You have him now, he’ll never be able to name five Irish deserts.I’m reminded that if you wish to delete a people, you first delete their history and culture.
DeadHand wrote: » You have him now, he’ll never be able to name five Irish deserts. I’m reminded that if you wish to delete a people, you first delete their history and culture. Do you mind if I fight back a little bit? You’re wrong about many things. The Irish nation have always been overwhelmingly the numerically (if not politically) dominant grouping on this island for over a thousand years. Many other groupings have arrived and made their presence felt but were in almost all cases eventually absorbed by the natives becoming “more Irish than the Irish themselves”. The one obvious exception to this were the Ulster planters, who arrived in too great a number to be assimilated. Their presence on the island of Ireland has led to centuries of bloodshed which are in themselves an argument against multiculturism. Of course, in common with the rest of the world, we have been heavily influenced by Anglo-American culture, through the dubious marvels of technology. Yet, we remain a distinctive nation we our own, indigenous, unique language, culture, music, literature, sports and collective history. Ireland has been an unusually homogenous country throughout its recorded history. This homogeneity was our strength after independence: we remained a peaceful, stable society as much of the rest of Europe slipped the dark era of ethnic/religious violence that was the inter-war years and World War 2 itself. A line of propaganda has arisen in the last few years which insists we have always been a multicultural society. This is a historical lie fabricated to buttress modern political and corporate agendas. In just the last 20 years our homogeneity has been deliberately stripped from us to serve a largely corporate agenda. With it will fall our peaceful and stable society. We have seen clearest rumblings of this in Dublin over the last few days. I’m immensely proud to be Irish. I’m proud of our achievements as a nation, of the successful society we have built on this island, of my Irish ancestry and of the gentle and human way Irish people tend to conduct themselves. I’m not sure what your agenda is or why you’d take to an Irish forum to post so contemptuously about the Irish nation.
Vieira82 wrote: » oh boy... Wibbs... Let's go then This is actually completely untrue, simply because the great expansions of the so called age of discoveries military conquests where also done through being sure the locals where cared for, a peaceful conquered population is more profitable than a hostile rebelious one. Sumerians did this, Hitites did this, Egyptians did this, Persians did this, Alexander the Great did this all along his expansion through Asia and the Romans did this. The reason these civilizations, some of them lasted thousands of years was precisely by learning to provide and to not ostracize who they conquered. Even the muslims did this in southern Europe. ´ There's examples of rebellions of course there is but when you think of something like the Roman Empire and you study it's expansion in places like the Iberian Peninsula you will see it was not empire building it was a slow expansion to establish trade routes. Trade and money was important and keeping the people happy meant trade would flow easily. Many Roman Emperors for example gave citizenship to so called barbarians precisely to ensure those tribes would be assimilated in the roman way of life and not wage unnecessary instability. If you look at how long the Roman Empire lasted and how few the rebellions where you will notice this to be true. They actually had more civil wars than actually so called natives rebelling... and that is a testament not to thought of superiority but to their understanding of including conquered peoples in the Empire... and no this was not consensual back then as history showed, one of the main reasons Caesar was stabbed in the senate was his willingness to have new senators from gaulish blood in Rome. Which angered the traditional native Roman families. But guess what? Augustus ended up doing the same and it became the norm. The end of the Roman Republic was effectively the end of the traditional roman families in Rome, but today we mostly remember the Roman Empire not the Roman Republic... If you want a popcorn way to learn about this I suggest you have a watch at HBO's Rome. Or better... get the blu-ray, as you can watch each episode with historical notes. That is all nice and well put until you actually read the original study you so valiantly posted images off which... shows numerous genomes which proves the melting pot I mentioned But let's look at the study... which is here:The Irish DNA Atlas: Revealing Fine-Scale Population Structure and History within Ireland And here's wha'ts in it: "In conclusion we have identified fine-scale genetic structure in Ireland that is geographically stratified and surprisingly faithful to the historical boundaries of Irish Provinces and kingdoms. We have detected two sources of admixture into Ireland. One is associated with a significant level of Norwegian ancestry, which we date to the time of Norse-Viking activity. The second is associated with Scottish and English ancestry and dates to the times of the Ulster Plantations. Our work informs on Irish history, and by outlining fine-scale structure across the island, we hope can aid the study of genetic diseases within Ireland, and others populations with Irish ancestry." What the study proves is that there is a genetic origin in certain areas of Ireland connected with local history not that it's an immaculate Irish gene, because it has been like it says a big part of Norwegian and Northern French genes... Furthermore... "Population Structure within IrelandWe assembled a combined dataset of individuals with Irish and British ancestry, to detect population structure within Ireland, within the context of neighboring Britain. " In short, if you're looking for water in a lake... you'll find water no? Genes are not a clear A or B, if you had bothered to even open the study you so happily showed you'd see this graphic in it: Which literally discredits what you where saying... you can clearly see the amount of diversity in the gene in which there is a majority of one specific origin... this is pure genetics, there is no one on this planet that is 100% pure one gene... oh and do you notice that percentage of "spanish" in it? That's precisely the proof of the Basque ancestry that you're trying to deny... Huh... no... nope and no The first Christians arrived in Ireland in the 5th century and the "official" date for the fall of the empire is after 476... Also the establishment of Irish Christianism occurs from the 5th century on and Eastern expansion from the 6th century on... Lastly the Christianization of Kievan Rus only occurs in the 9th century... Sources:Christianity in IrelandFall of the Western Roman EmpireHistory of Christianity - Western Missionary ExpansionChristianity in the 6th century - Irish MissionariesChristianity in the 7th centuryChristianization of Kievan Rus' If you want aditional literary sources I recomend:The Fall of Rome and the End of Civilization and specially:The Evolution of the Late Antique World Lastly, to have an easy popcorn type of knowledge, you can always watch the TV Show Vikings, they're actually right in the final season in Kievan Rus territory and dealing with early christianization of the territory... This is again incorrect Because of the perfect position of Ireland in the western northern atlantic, the trade routes from north america including Spanish, Portugese, Dutch British and French ships all passed through Galway and along all the ports in Ireland. The trade routes where so profitable that made Ireland a very good place for piracy to prey on these trading ships. Exactly like in Southern Portugal and Span the trade routes out of the mediterranean where easy prey for pirates.Both Western south-western coast of Portugal and Ireland are filled with watch towers, guard towers to spot the pirates...
biko wrote: » Ireland has a great culture that people come from far a wide to take part of. In fact our culture is so popular that our pubs can be found worldwide, and our national day is celebrated by other nationalities in other countries. No other country shares this. Irish drink is enjoyed everywhere. Ten years ago, Nigeria overtook Ireland as the second biggest Guinness market in the world, coming behind the United Kingdom. Neighbours Cameroon comes a place after Nigeria as the fourth-biggest market for Guinness. I suspect every country has it's own SJW that tries to disparage their own culture. From Norway to Angola there are people that say "find me 5 things that are uniquely Angolan, I bet you can't cause nothing is Angolan".
Vieira82 wrote: » This is actually completely untrue, simply because the great expansions of the so called age of discoveries military conquests where also done through being sure the locals where cared for, a peaceful conquered population is more profitable than a hostile rebelious one.
Sumerians did this, Hitites did this, Egyptians did this, Persians did this, Alexander the Great did this all along his expansion through Asia and the Romans did this. The reason these civilizations, some of them lasted thousands of years was precisely by learning to provide and to not ostracize who they conquered. Even the muslims did this in southern Europe.
That is all nice and well put until you actually read the original study you so valiantly posted images off which... shows numerous genomes which proves the melting pot I mentioned
Which literally discredits what you where saying... you can clearly see the amount of diversity in the gene in which there is a majority of one specific origin... this is pure genetics, there is no one on this planet that is 100% pure one gene...
oh and do you notice that percentage of "spanish" in it? That's precisely the proof of the Basque ancestry that you're trying to deny...
Huh... no... nope and no The first Christians arrived in Ireland in the 5th century and the "official" date for the fall of the empire is after 476...
Huh... again.. no it's not like the study you linked above shows.
Also the only person talking about race here is you. The idea of a pure race, a pure gene, is itself a belief in racial superiority that Hitler himself praised extensively.
Cultures always mingled between themselves, you have a perfect example of this in the US and how many cultures from around the world ended up existing in that one country... though to the much detriment of native Americans of course...
Or if you want another literary source that shows the horrors of colonialism but also how in the end it was the mixing of cultures that established the Portuguese rule in India:Conquerors: How Portugal Forged the First Global Empire So again, this fearful idea that the non-natives are out to eat your culture for breakfast is non-sensical, basic and pretty much racist...
But back on topic let's make a case for Irish Culture. So here's a tiny challenge for you: Name me: 5 Irish Dishes that you can say are 100% Irish 5 Irish Deserts that you can say are 100% Irish 5 Irish Drinks that you can say are 100% Irish and lastly 5 Irish Culture Traits you can 100% say they are Irish and not taken or influenced from somewhere or some other culture.
Vieira82 wrote: » That is an excellent argument and a perfect example of cultural changes through time. Nigerians that came into Ireland brought the beer to Nigeria probably... and there's nothing wrong with this at all, it's normal, it always hapenned and will always happen through trade...
Vieira82 wrote: » Another information factually wrong. The so called Celtic Revolution pretty much reached Ireland too, obviously it wasn't just Ireland or they had origins in Ireland, it was just another culture that reached Ireland too in that melting pot you want to deny, yet post articles precisely about it...
I'll wait for you to answer point by point to my previous post because I love to deconstruct pseudo-historians like yourself
Deleted User wrote: » I've lived abroad for almost 14 years now, along with other stints abroad before that. I don't get this expectation that Ireland should be so different from other countries. I've spent time in both Africa and Asia where minor discrimination, and outright racism against white people is common. We know it exists. We expect it to happen. It's a known factor in deciding to live in a foreign country. There will be locals who think you shouldn't be here. There will be people who think you're taking jobs that should be occupied by natives. There will be people who distrust you because you're culturally different. There will be people who consider you inferior because of your skin color, or some other nonsense. That's part of living in a foreign country, especially one whose culture is so different. I love living in cultures which are so different than my own. There are so many positives.. but then, there are heaps of negatives too. I've been physically assaulted in both Asia, and Africa based on my skin color. Or assaulted because the association of white people is connected to wealth, even though, I wasn't wealthy at that time. It didn't matter. Because some people think this way... irrespective of the realities involved. That is not to say that I consider the country or the entire people to be xenophobic. Even with China or Japan, which culturally tends to be historically xenophobic, both could be very welcoming depending on the circumstances.. and individually, people aren't that locked in step with the traditional cultural perspective on foreigners. Still, there is common day discrimination, and racism.. (far more than in Ireland) You listed a range of assaults or expressions of racism. It happens. It will continue to happen. Some people are just unlucky, or they set themselves up for abuse, all the while knowing how to avoid being placed in that situation. There will always be some people who hate/distrust foreigners... that's pretty much a given, and anyone who thinks that will change is smoking some funny stuff. It's also worth remembering that as "foreigners", we're judged by the behavior of past foreigners. In Oz, that meant the automatic association many had about Irish people being violent, and heavy drinkers. In China, it meant the range of foreigners who disrespected their cultural norms, and left behind pregnant Chinese women. That behavior leaves an impression, not just on those who are directly involved, but also on those who "hear" about it, which in turn, promotes the stereotypes. Which we are judged by... by association. For some people, that will be cause enough to hate that foreigner, irrespective of who they actually are. Where are you originally from? I suspect you/we could easily find a range of assaults/problems in your country related to race. The point being that there is no "extra" hatred of foreigners beyond what already exists in other countries. No xenophobia that doesn't already exist in other relatively traditional (or going through the process of shedding it's traditional past) countries. Although, considering the frustrations many people I know have about immigrants in Ireland, I wouldn't be too surprised to see a rise in actual discrimination, and/or contempt towards certain migrant groups. As I said, the behavior of past migrants/foreigners will set the theme for judging the next batch.
Vieira82 wrote: » Another information factually wrong. The so called Celtic Revolution pretty much reached Ireland too, obviously it wasn't just Ireland or they had origins in Ireland, it was just another culture that reached Ireland too in that melting pot you want to deny, yet post articles precisely about it... We studied in great detail in Portugal this culture as we had also an influence in our archaeological data as the information below shows:Celts So no... calling the Irish Celts is not like calling them Italians, is like calling them Europeans because it was a culture that expanded all around Europe, just like the Indo-Europeans did before and the Neolithic Revolution/Megalithism Culture folks did before too... I'll wait for you to answer point by point to my previous post because I love to deconstruct pseudo-historians like yourself
Vieira82 wrote: » And it does really annoy me that if it was me brandishing a knife at Gardai the other day I would not be shot at all, but because the guy was black it happened and people think it was justified... It annoys me because I have seen blatant criminality and anti-social behavior and people complaining about it and the Garda does nothing at all... so suddenly a black guy being shot like he was when a shot in the leg or arm would have rendered him defenseless
Yeah I'm sure native Americans who fell to Spanish, Portuguese and English swords and whips thought themselves well cared for. I can't believe you wrote a defence of colonialism with a straight face, but anyway...
This is actually completely untrue, simply because the great expansions of the so called age of discoveries military conquests where also done through being sure the locals where cared for, a peaceful conquered population is more profitable than a hostile rebelious one.
And while Guinness is an Irish Invention, the first recorded brewers of Beer where Ancient Egyptians... so keep in mind how something created in Egypt ends up in Ireland which just shows how cultures can influence each other far and wide as early pre-classic times.
Wibbs wrote: » McDonald's first opened in 1970's Ireland. We didn't require 10,000 Americans coming to Ireland for that to happen. The potato became an Irish staple and we didn't require 10,000 Peruvians coming to Ireland for that to happen. We drink coffee and tea and we didn't require 10,000 Arabians or Indians coming to Ireland for that to happen. We speak English and and we didn't require... Oh wait... Yeah that went well.
CtevenSrowder wrote: » You certainly have the moral superiority one can only gain from a humanities degree anyway. Though usually the most cock-sure are full of the most ****e.
biko wrote: » Speaking of Nigeria and meeting of cultures. Islamists that kidnapped 11 Christians in northeast Nigeria on Christmas Day have executed five of them. A video, dated Dec. 29, shows five armed members of the Islamic State West Africa Province (ISWAP) lining up behind five men dressed in orange robes who are kneeling with their hands tied behind them. Ordered in the Hausa language to state their names, each of the kneeling men in turn is heard saying their name and adding, “I’m a Christian.” Speaking in the Hausa language common throughout northern Nigeria, one of the ISWAP militants then says, “This is a warning to Christians in all parts of the world and those in Nigeria. We have not forgotten what you did to our brethren in Zangon Kataf town and other parts of Nigeria. Use the heads of these five of your brethren to continue with your ungodly celebrations.” The five Christians are then shot to death.https://morningstarnews.org/2020/12/iswap-terrorists-execute-five-christians-in-nigeria-video-shows/
Vieira82 wrote: » So first of all you mention that you lived in Africa and Asia... that's all very nice but they're two gigantic continents. You can't in any possible way say that your experience in one country speaks for whole continents.
Same thing in Africa, you will be racial abused in Congo and even Angola but not in Namibia, Quenia or Egypt...
Also both continents are extremely diverse in terms of cultures, religions and traditions, you can't simply put whole continents in one bag as having behaviours you expect in Ireland and felt there.. So the question is which countries did you travel too as then we can analyse that in detail...
And yes I'm from Portugal,
So comparing this with what I've seen in Ireland in the last 9 years I can tell you I have never even seen one single African associated with crime.
It annoys me
Wibbs wrote: » The evidence for the earliest brewers of beer are found in present day Iran, Iraq and Israel and rice beer was going down in China 6000 years ago(though it may well have been brewed even further back in present day Turkey). So it's simplistic to claim it was "created in Egypt". Even the first writings on it are Sumerian.
Deleted User wrote: » I never said that my experiences did... you're the one interjecting that assumption. You obviously haven't spent any time in Egypt then. No.. because it's a deflection, since I stated that you shouldn't/couldn't judge the people based on a national or cultural perception. Ahh I have friends from there, and judging by their stories (and my own experiences in Lisbon and Porto) you're in no position to lecture Irish people about racial crime... Bully for you. I haven't seen anyone associated to crime in many years... because I don't associate myself with any kind of groups that would be involved in crime. I snipped a lot because I can't be bothered, because you didn't actually address what I wrote except to apply deflections. Consider your OP and my OP. And stop deflecting.
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