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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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JeffKenna

ooter wrote: »

Counties from all 4 corners of the country have contested the last 3 all ireland finals.

They hadn't won a senior hurling all ireland in 68 years and still haven't won one despite the handout.

But sur the best Dublin hurlers are on the football team. Guaranteed an all Ireland every year they play, hard to blame them really.

ooter

Illegal is the key word here.
Here is a question, are the dublin senior hurlers playing (say kilkenny for example) on a level playing field?

MayoAreMagic

ooter wrote: »

Illegal is the key word here.
Here is a question, are the dublin senior hurlers playing (say kilkenny for example) on a level playing field?

They are two different sports. Not sure what part of that you cant grasp. Michael Jordan was a great basketball player, he wasnt great at baseball. Doubt he was much of a hurler either. You cant be offering much of an argument when that is your starting point...

In reality, you probably dont really deserve a response. You were trying to argue that counties from all over ireland contested the last 3 all Ireland finals, in the midst of a 6 in a row. That is highly disingenuous.

MayoAreMagic

ShyMets wrote: »

Yes. It nags at me everyday. Sometimes even keeps me awake at night

Why do you hide behind humour? Are you afraid to answer it honestly?

ShyMets

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Why do you hide behind humour? Are you afraid to answer it honestly?

Whatever about counties. When I look at Kerry, a predominantly footballing county in a predominantly Hurling Province I don't see a team operating under any great disadvantage.

So nothing nags at me when Dublin beat them.

Enquiring

feargale wrote: »

What about Dublin hurling then?

I get your post but Dublin hurling is a very good example we can use to answer some queries raised. Mainly, how can funding help _____________ become competitive?

Let's have a look at where hurling in Dublin was at prior to funding taking effect and compare it to afterwards.

Dublin seniors were getting regular beatings in the Leinster hurling championship. 15 point defeats in 2003 and 2004, lost to Laois by 12 in 2005 and lost to Westmeath in 2006.

Things started improving in 2007, lost to Wexford by a point. In 2008, Dublin beat Westmeath by 19 points, a big turnaround from 2 years before. Obviously, new players coming through were making a big difference. Some key results since then; they beat Wexford in 2009 and made their way into a Leinster final. 2010, beat Clare by 13 points. 2011, beat Offaly and Galway to get to Leinster final, beat Limerick to get to an All Ireland semi final, they also beat Kilkenny by 12 points to win the National hurling league that year. In 2013, Dublin beat Wexford, Kilkenny and Galway to win their first ever Leinster hurling title featuring mostly Dublin players. Beat Limerick in 2015. Beat Wexford by 13 points in 2016. Beat Galway in 2019.

u20/21 hurling

Dublin had won 2 Leinster u21 titles in the 60's and 70's and only had been in 1 other Leinster final.

They've been in 10 Leinster finals post funding and won 4 of them.

Minor hurling

Dublin won a Leinster minor championship in 1983 but were only in 4 other finals since the 70's.

Post funding, they've been in 11 finals, winning 6 of them and 1 All Ireland.

Club hurling

In club hurling, Dublin reached 5 Leinster finals since the competition began in 1970, winning 1.

Dublin clubs have been in 7 Leinster finals since funding, winning 2 and 2 All Ireland's.

A clear transformation in standards. Working on producing players at underage has left Dublin in a completely different place at senior level. From no hopers, they are now competitive at the top level and have achieved some results that wouldn't have been thought possible prior to funding. This can happen in other counties in hurling and football. Give them funding and they can improve.

For example, could anyone imagine Wicklow winning a National football league and a Leinster championship? Competing at the top level beating teams like Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal? That's the equivalent of what happened with Dublin hurling. There would be some setbacks but there's proof that amazing transformations are possible.

ooter

Not sure what MJ has to do with anything, you've lost me there.
3 counties from the far corners of ireland had a chance to stop the 6 in a row at any point along the way and they failed, that's not dublin's fault.
Maybe they're just not skillful enough.

MayoAreMagic

ShyMets wrote: »

Whatever about counties. When I look at Kerry, a predominantly footballing county in a predominantly Hurling Province I don't see a team operating under any great disadvantage.

So nothing nags at me when Dublin beat them.

But your own county is predominantly football, and leinster has even less football counties competing than munster does... A bit of self-awareness lacking there.

MayoAreMagic

ooter wrote: »

Not sure what MJ has to do with anything, you've lost me there.
3 counties from the far corners of ireland had a chance to stop the 6 in a row at any point along the way and they failed, that's not dublin's fault.
Maybe they're just not skillful enough.

I thought you were referencing ciaran kilkenny playing hurling and football..

Well every team 'has a chance', in that respect, although it could be 1 in 1000, it still exists. How fair is that chance though? Hence the thread.

It would be interesting to see a mathematical probability of dublin winning compared to another team winning. I imagine it would be shamefully bad.

ShyMets

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But your own county is predominantly football, and leinster has even less football counties competing than munster does... A bit of self-awareness lacking there.

Leinster has less footballing counties competing then Munster. How do you make that out

ArielAtom

This is the definition of financial doping . Just to clarify some posters misunderstanding of its meaning.

MayoAreMagic

ShyMets wrote: »

Leinster has less footballing counties competing then Munster. How do you make that out

When is the last time a leinster county, outside dublin, made the semi finals? When is the last time dublin were beaten in leinster? Fairly simple id have thought...

MayoAreMagic

ArielAtom wrote: »

This is the definition of financial doping . Just to clarify some posters misunderstanding of its meaning.

Actually that is an example of financial doping, rather than the definition of it.
Are you suggesting that there can be no other possible examples of financial doping other than that specific one?

ShyMets

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

When is the last time a leinster county, outside dublin, made the semi finals? When is the last time dublin were beaten in leinster? Fairly simple id have thought...

In 2010 kildare got to a semi final. Meath won the 2010 Leinster final. From 2010 to 2019 Cork got to the semi final twice. Tipp once. Not a whole lot better then Leinster.

ShyMets

dunnerc wrote: »

Playing with words again:rolleyes:

When David Lloyd George first met De Valera he afterwards the described the experience as trying to pick up mercury with a fork.

Sound familiar

ooter

The leinster counties have a better chance of making the all ireland semi final now through the back door than they did under the old system, they can actually avoid dublin and make it all the way to the semi finals.
It's not dublin's fault that they don't.
Dublin lost in leinster in 2010 and still got to the all ireland semi final, it can be done.

ArielAtom

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Actually that is an example of financial doping, rather than the definition of it.
Are you suggesting that there can be no other possible examples of financial doping other than that specific one?

That is the definition. You just can’t accept it’s definition. It really is that simple.

MayoAreMagic

dunnerc wrote: »

Playing with words again:rolleyes:

It isnt playing with words. The attachment was an example of financial doping. The guy posting it was trying to suggest it was the definition, and thereby the only possible way that financial doping could take place is if they matched that exact criteria. Any reasonable person can see that is biased nonsense.

ArielAtom

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It isnt playing with words. The attachment was an example of financial doping. The guy posting it was trying to suggest it was the definition, and thereby the only possible way that financial doping could take place is if they matched that exact criteria. Any reasonable person can see that is biased nonsense.

But it is. This is the definition from the Collins dictionary.

MayoAreMagic

ShyMets wrote: »

In 2010 kildare got to a semi final. Meath won the 2010 Leinster final. From 2010 to 2019 Cork got to the semi final twice. Tipp once. Not a whole lot better then Leinster.

Cork won the all ireland in 2010...
Isnt it strange how you left out 2020?? Where cork beat kerry and tipperary made the semi finals again.
So dublin havent lost a game in leinster in over a decade. Kerry lost in munster in 2020...

MayoAreMagic

ArielAtom wrote: »

But it is. This is the definition from the Collins dictionary. I understand that comprehension might not be your strong point, considering you misunderstanding of the meaning of the term.

It lists two situations as examples.

Would you like to beat kerry without needing advantages to do so?

MayoAreMagic

ooter wrote: »

The leinster counties have a better chance of making the all ireland semi final now through the back door than they did under the old system, they can actually avoid dublin and make it all the way to the semi finals.
It's not dublin's fault that they don't.
Dublin lost in leinster in 2010 and still got to the all ireland semi final, it can be done.

Nor is it Kerry's fault in munster...
You seem to be arguing against your own points here.

Would you like to be able to beat kerry in a fair contest?

ShyMets

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Cork won the all ireland in 2010...
Isnt it strange how you left out 2020?? Where cork beat kerry and tipperary made the semi finals again.
So dublin havent lost a game in leinster in over a decade. Kerry lost in munster in 2020...

For a good reason. 2020 was an exceptionally year. Would Tipp have beaten Kerry in a Munster Final, I doubt it. Would Cavan have won in a normal year unlikely.

Now back to my original point. Dublin are far ahead in Leinster and change does and will happen.

But let's not pretend that Kerry don't have certain advantages in Munster

ArielAtom

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It lists two situations as examples. Im not sure what part of that you are struggling to comprehend? Either way, it isnt my job to offer you an education.

Would you like to beat kerry without needing advantages to do so?

You keep your head in the sand. I have posted the Collins English dictionaries definition. I’ll leave it there.

MayoAreMagic

ArielAtom wrote: »

You keep your head in the sand. I have posted the Collins English dictionaries definition. I’ll leave it there.

You mean you posted a quote from the collins dictionary website that offers two examples of financial doping.
Why are you avoiding answering the question put to you?

MayoAreMagic

ShyMets wrote: »

For a good reason. 2020 was an exceptionally year. Would Tipp have beaten Kerry in a Munster Final, I doubt it. Would Cavan have won in a normal year unlikely.

Now back to my original point. Dublin are far ahead in Leinster and change does and will happen.

But let's not pretend that Kerry don't have certain advantages in Munster

But it happened, the same as any other all ireland win. Funny enough, nothing changed in the leinster championship procession in this wild and wonderful year... You are just dismissing it because it doesnt suit your narrative.

Kerry have feck all advantages in munster compared to dublins advantages over everyone else. That is the reality.

tritium

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It isnt a definition though, it is an example.
It is kind of cringey that this is the best kind of response you can come up with.

Here is a question, would you not like to beat kerry on an even playing field rather than only when you have every advantage going? Dont you have that bit of pride that makes you want to take the stabilisers off?

Given Kerry have theee decades of one of the best sponsorship arrangements in the country behind them I think they’re the last county you should call on for your argument

MayoAreMagic

tritium wrote: »

Given Kerry have theee decades of one of the best sponsorship arrangements in the country behind them I think they’re the last county you should call on for your argument

Sorry, cant take that point seriously. Dublin fans complaining about another teams sponsorship deal.
I ask again, would you not like to beat kerry on an even playing field? I just know that when mayo beat them after the replay a few years back, it was something I enjoyed as a fan.

tritium

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Nor is it Kerry's fault in munster...
You seem to be arguing against your own points here.

Would you like to be able to beat kerry in a fair contest?

They can and do, end of

ArielAtom

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

You mean you posted a quote from the collins dictionary website that offers two examples of financial doping.
Why are you avoiding answering the question put to you?

I’m challenging you on you misunderstanding of a term, you chose to deflect. Accept you are wrong and we can move on. Winning AI’s never gets boring. I was long enough going to games and losing. Something you know all about.

If you choose to ignore the Collins English dictionary and continue to use financial doping as a description you are lying. There is no other term for it.