One eyed Jack wrote: » It’s not much use for example having a fantastic education system (we really don’t, but speaking as if we do), if people don’t have the ability and opportunities to access that system, and the same applies to access to housing or enterprise and development. There are systems in place which exist already, but because of other barriers to entry (which are all different depending upon individual circumstances), people for one reason or another are excluded from gaining access to those systems and initiatives to enable them to integrate successfully into society and contribute to society.
The political will just isn’t there to address these issues.
Thelonious Monk wrote: » So apart from giving out on here about how they're not integrating well and that we'll have black ghettos and stuff soon, is there anything you are able to do about it? Do you think we need a party like UKIP or something here, with immigration point based system from non EU countries, and no more refugees?The thing is, they'd never get voted in or any legislation passed. So things are going to carry on as is.
Kivaro wrote: » One would have to ask why Africans in Ireland, who make up a small minority in the country, have quickly become very prominent in all our lives; unfortunately for the wrong reasons. The more Africans who arrive in Ireland and receive asylum seem to correlate with an increase in the accusation of racism countrywide. So the Irish are inherently racist or the accusations are baseless and/or exaggerated by those with vested interests. If the percentage of Africans in Ireland who partake in employment was greater than the staggering low percentage of 40%, then there would be greater integration by them in the country where they were provided refuge. For the majority to linger on welfare with free housing and social services will only result in mistrust and resentment. Looking at the different larger ethnic groups who migrated to Ireland in the last couple of decades and participated fully by working and integrating, there is hardly a bad news story about them. Yet, this is not true for Africans (as a whole), and a similar story can be told in various countries around the world for that same group. So I doubt the blame is on the Irish. Ireland should take a no-nonsense approach to employment and integration of economic migrants, but that approach may be a good number of years away yet even though the courage to act is absolutely necessary now.
Thelonious Monk wrote: » So apart from giving out on here about how they're not integrating well and that we'll have black ghettos and stuff soon, is there anything you are able to do about it?
Do you think we need a party like UKIP or something here, with immigration point based system from non EU countries, and no more refugees? The thing is, they'd never get voted in or any legislation passed. So things are going to carry on as is.
Thelonious Monk wrote: » You're all gonna love this, lolhttps://twitter.com/rte/status/1344023939958321153
TomTomTim wrote: » I really have never understood the confidence that comes from people like you when you make statements as such. You yourself would agree, I assume, that Brexit, which a majority voted for, was at least somewhat motivated by immigration?
Thelonious Monk wrote: » Also can someone tell me how so many centras etc are now staffed by South Asian people? How do get a visa to work such a menial job?
Wibbs wrote: » and Romania are refused today because they're likely to be chancers
Thelonious Monk wrote: » I agree it was fuelled by immigration, they used pictures of throngs of Syrian refugees in their pro Brexit ad campaigns. I remember seeing people in North East towns being interviewed and they were complaining everyone was foreign, but they didn't mean Africans and Syrians etc they meant Polish, Lithuanian and the likes who seemed to be doing all the menial jobs in these towns. I don't think anyone in Ireland has a problem with EU members coming here, no one I know anyway. So an anti-EU party wont get anywhere, I think we're the most pro-EU country in Europe. Do you think there's room for a party that wants no refugees, and no immigration from India/Pakistan/Africa? I don't really think they'd get a lot of votes personally, at the moment anyway - most people for now, would be quite weary of such a party.
titan18 wrote: » I honestly could see a sane anti mass immigration party who targeted the right areas get a fair few votes on elections. Might not get into general elections right away but could do well at local levels if they put the groundwork in. Issue is the ones there ATM have their fair share of nutters who drag the lot down. Likes of the Irish Freedom Party being anti covid restrictions doesn't help them at all and Renua still have the anti abortion/religious party stain on them so anyone who might be liberal on those issues but anti mass immigration isn't voting for them. A party/independents who were anti mass immigration and stuck with the status quo on other issues I could see doing well enough to maybe help change the discourse a bit. Need someone brave enough to do it really as whoever puts themselves out there like that will be torn apart by the media.
biko wrote: » These are jobs that Irish don't want if you believe the wokes. This is where the left is leading us. I recently stayed in a Cork hotel where the entire staff was Filipino. That means 10/15 or so local youngsters didn't get local jobs.
Sir Oxman wrote: » Yes, it won't be the utter nutters in the Freedom or National parties that make serious inroads here. IMO, it'll be an established party eventually, possibly FF (I can't see any other big party in the frame at all) with a rolback of open doors policy and hopefully taking on some of the excellent suggestions in this thread alone! The collection of 'left' parties (SF/Green/SD/Lab/PBP-Sol) will never, ever engage in lucid, logical, rational conversations about this. Never. We can all hope something akin to NP or IFP but with rational 'sounding' leadership and policies and a charasmatic leader doesn't take foothold because that will get a very big foothold with what is coming up.
Thelonious Monk wrote: » Yeah but they wouldn't take the jobs, that's the thing. Maybe if they paid them more, but they're not going to do that. This is what happens when countries get rich.
biko wrote: » Sounds like you are guessing. There are plenty other hotels and restaurants in the area with Irish people working. However, it could be the owner of the place that decided it was better and cheaper to have foreign staff rather than local. It's interesting that your first instinct is to blame the local Irish though.
Thelonious Monk wrote: » Well do you really think it's easy to find hotel room cleaners, that will stay for years and are hard workers? Who in Ireland wants to do that?
Wibbs wrote: » True. I shoud have made the distinction of Roma not Romanian. Very different things.
biko wrote: » It might surprise some people to learn that according to IMF data, over 20 per cent of Ireland’s working population is comprised of immigrants. That’s a bigger proportion than in the UK or US where, of course, immigration is causing deep and profound political schisms. Angela Merkel may have caused uproar by taking in a million and more refugees over the past couple of years but Germany still has a smaller migrant workforce than does Ireland. There are no downsides with this at all, nope, none.
Wibbs wrote: » List them please. The negatives it seems are easy to list and easy to demonstrate with it, the positives not so easy going by this thread. So benefits beyond charity, exoticism and cheap labour where applicable? The floor is yours.
Deleted User wrote: » honestly, I've learned from this thread that people will believe what they want to believe, and you will likely dismiss anything that doesn't agree with your pov. Why? Because you'll be able to find research that supports your pov, just as others would find research that counters your pov. All in all, you'll choose what to accept if it supports your beliefs.
Deleted User wrote: » haha... You've just proven that people see what they want to see, rather than what was written.
Deleted User wrote: » The majority of organisations who dedicate themselves to making reports are directly involved in immigration, or activism, and have an inherent bias in what they report, and how they present it. State reporting, typically, is more reliable, however, due to the focus on promoting immigration over the last two decades (as part of State/EU policy), they've allowed other organisations to take over the primary active role in doing so. Why? Because there was a direct bias to present immigration as being a net benefit, to justify the agendas at play.
Deleted User wrote: » Throughout this thread, I have provided various links to back up my statements. .... I've invariably pulled a report or two to do that.
Deleted User wrote: » I struggled to find reliable information regarding education, but don't let that stop you from broadening my point beyond what I actually said. :rolleyes:
Deleted User wrote: » "Let me give you an example. I wanted to find out the education level of migrants entering Ireland over the last two decades. I looked online. Nothing. I emailed and phoned the CSO, nothing. I checked the EU commission database, nothing.
Deleted User wrote: » Oh. Just to add something that should be obvious. Any post that doesn't provide links/evidence to support it, is just an opinion. It is unreliable. Yours, mine, every post. They're opinions.. Just as they're often opinions backed up by evidence, but remain opinions, because none of us are accredited/identifiable experts. Amazing that this needed to be said.
Deleted User wrote: » Regarding Sweden. "The investigation (from 2002 to 2017) covers seven distinct categories of crime, and distinguishes between seven regions of origin. Based on 33 per cent of the population (2017), 58 per cent of those suspect for total crime on reasonable grounds are migrants. Regarding murder, manslaughter and attempted murder, the figures are 73 per cent, while the proportion of robbery is 70 per cent. Non-registered migrants are linked to about 13 per cent of total crime. Given the fact that this group is small, crime propensity among non-registered migrants is significant" " Due to migration, murder rate in Sweden has quadrupled" And yes, many migrants don't engage in crime, but the fact remains that Sweden, the poster child for rapid change of a mostly homogeneous population, has experienced a huge increase in crime, and one that can be directly connected to it's immigration policies. The full report is definitely worth a read. After reading it, perhaps ask the question, why would Ireland be different?
Tell me how wrote: » As for benefits, and before I list some, it is interesting that you want to exclude exoticism and charity. I take it this means you recognize that there are benefits within interactions between cultures.
I noted when I dropped in to this thread a few days ago also that someone was pointing out the success of asians in various locations while stating that africans were less successful. More of a tacit acceptance of multiculturalism while still seeking to insist it doesn't work.
Some benefits; Variety in cuisine, arts, music, religion. (sorry not leaving out just because you want to exclude them)/Exposure and participation in various religious, cultural or arts activities can be enjoyable as well as being informative./Variety is the spice of life. Many people take fulfillment and indeed meaning and purpose in their lives through the study or creation of music, art, poetry, literature etc. Being able to select from additional cultures only widens the opportunity to do so.
Exposure to people from different cultures which encourages people to then travel to those places for short or longer term stays.
Evidence that Ireland is a compassionate society willing to offer support and a home to those in need.
A continuation of our own cultural historic heritage of being an Island of a thousand welcomes.
Interaction between people leading to collaboration facilitating the opening of business and education opportunities for Irish people and businesses.
Interaction between cultures leads to greater understanding of the beliefs, practices, behaviors of people outside of just those who you grew up with.
Diversity within the workplace strengthens a businesses hand in targeting other markets.
Varied participants at a population level can help foster bonds and relationships at a national level leading to less argumentative diplomatic relationships.
It is merely a continuation of the way society has evolved to this point, and while you might say that was actually through violence and destruction, that violence and destruction has lessened as a consequence of the realisation that as people intermingle between cultures, there is more that unites than divides.
The solution to areas of continued conflict, such as in Israel at the moment will not come about through segregation and isolation but through a realisation that these cultures need to find ways to live together.
Stronger community ties lead to a safer world.
Availability of many skilled people particularly in medical fields.
McHardcore wrote: » Beckley et al. criticised previous reports that did not take into account population's employment, education level and age, all of which affect level of crime.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w9.vanillicon.com/v2/9429a6e87ca90295fb14e1083556c0c3.svg)
