The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

JeffKenna wrote: »

Kerry were only a match for Dublin when Dublin were down to 14 players. They got destroyed in the replay 15 v 15.

No they didn't. They ran out of steam, because they simply don't have the same strength and conditioning, nowhere near to the professional level of coaching that Dublin do anyway. In effect, they are relying purely on talent to counteract all Dublin's advantages. You would assume, on a level playing field and with the same advantages, they'd be ahead of Dublin, like they generally always were

threeball

The Golden Miller wrote: »

No they didn't. They ran out of steam, because they simply don't have the same strength and conditioning, nowhere near to the professional level of coaching that Dublin do anyway. In effect, they are relying purely on talent to counteract all Dublin's advantages. You would assume, on a level playing field and with the same advantages, they'd be ahead of Dublin, like they generally always were

Thats about the size of it. It doesn't matter at this stage if Dublin go on to win 20 all irelands. There'll be a huge asterisk besides all those wins due to the deck being completely stacked in their favour whether they like it or not. No amount of talking about humility and special groups will change that.

The Golden Miller wrote: »

No they didn't. They ran out of steam, because they simply don't have the same strength and conditioning, nowhere near to the professional level of coaching that Dublin do anyway. In effect, they are relying purely on talent to counteract all Dublin's advantages. You would assume, on a level playing field and with the same advantages, they'd be ahead of Dublin, like they generally always were

I agree with all of that, what I don't agree with was your statement that Kerry were a match for Dublin last year. They weren't, they were only a match for them when Dublin went down to 14 players.

JeffKenna wrote: »

I agree with all of that, what I don't agree with was your statement that Kerry were a match for Dublin last year. They weren't, they were only a match for them when Dublin went down to 14 players.

Wasn't there 3 points in it before the red. And second game went into half time level? With Dublin slowly crawling ahead in second game as Kerry wore out? Maybe my memory is hazy.

What your picking me up is really an aside to the point. I'll rephrase, Kerry are operating on a level close enough to Dublin, despite disadvantages. That speaks volumes for the talent that comes out of the county. In the long run, Kerry will be an outlier, as the only team that will able to put up some sort of a challenge, purely because of the talent they produce with a limited population. But will ultimately come up short. The rest can't produce players to Kerry's level, so the gap will widen between Dublin and 30 counties.

dunnerc

The Golden Miller wrote: »

No they didn't. They ran out of steam, because they simply don't have the same strength and conditioning, nowhere near to the professional level of coaching that Dublin do anyway. In effect, they are relying purely on talent to counteract all Dublin's advantages. You would assume, on a level playing field and with the same advantages, they'd be ahead of Dublin, like they generally always were

Think you need to watch the match again

Panrich

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Wasn't there 3 points in it before the red. And second game went into half time level? With Dublin slowly crawling ahead in second game as Kerry wore out? Maybe my memory is hazy.

What your picking me up is really an aside to the point. I'll rephrase, Kerry are operating on a level close enough to Dublin, despite disadvantages. That speaks volumes for the talent that comes out of the county. In the long run, Kerry will be an outlier, as the only team that will able to put up some sort of a challenge, purely because of the talent they produce with a limited population. But will ultimately come up short. The rest can't produce players to Kerry's level, so the gap will widen between Dublin and 30 counties.

I think that Kerry will give the Dubs a run in future but there is still hope for the other 30 counties as well. Kerry don’t have a monopoly on talent. You say the rest can’t produce players to Kerry’s level but Mayo have been the biggest challengers this decade.

Look at the young players that Cork and Galway are producing as well. There’s got to be hope in these counties that they can come on to the level that Mayo were operating at and that would be enough to give us hope that we’ll see competition going forward.

thesultan

Do the Dubs here not agree that the Dubs are operating at a professional level since they always blow teams away in thd last ten minutes of games..

thesultan wrote: »

Do the Dubs here not agree that the Dubs are operating at a professional level since they always blow teams away in thd last ten minutes of games..

https://www.gaa.ie/hurling/gaa-hurling-all-ireland-senior-championship/dublin-cork/1739645/
The hurling lads must've missed the S&C sessions.
Sure tis grand when the Kerry senior footballers break the rules and get kit deals and sponsorship deals in the 80s and win all Irelands to bate the band but as soon as the dublin senior footballers start winning a few things the sky is falling down.
This Dublin football team haven't broken any rules, the GOAT.

Panrich wrote: »

I think that Kerry will give the Dubs a run in future but there is still hope for the other 30 counties as well. Kerry don’t have a monopoly on talent. You say the rest can’t produce players to Kerry’s level but Mayo have been the biggest challengers this decade.

Look at the young players that Cork and Galway are producing as well. There’s got to be hope in these counties that they can come on to the level that Mayo were operating at and that would be enough to give us hope that we’ll see competition going forward.

The other counties can produce players to Kerry's level but it's cyclical. Kerry seem to do it consistently. So I'd imagine on any given year the closest challengers will be Kerry, along with another one or two counties with a strong generation

ooter wrote: »

https://www.gaa.ie/hurling/gaa-hurling-all-ireland-senior-championship/dublin-cork/1739645/
The hurling lads must've missed the S&C sessions.
Sure tis grand when the Kerry senior footballers break the rules and get kit deals and sponsorship deals in the 80s and win all Irelands to bate the band but as soon as the dublin senior footballers start winning a few things the sky is falling down.
This Dublin football team haven't broken any rules, the GOAT.

Kerry got huge government funding to restructure a failing game in the county?

ooter wrote: »

https://www.gaa.ie/hurling/gaa-hurling-all-ireland-senior-championship/dublin-cork/1739645/
The hurling lads must've missed the S&C sessions.
Sure tis grand when the Kerry senior footballers break the rules and get kit deals and sponsorship deals in the 80s and win all Irelands to bate the band but as soon as the dublin senior footballers start winning a few things the sky is falling down.
This Dublin football team haven't broken any rules, the GOAT.

And I wouldn't necessarily say they are the GOAT, end of debate. If you were to bring some of the Meath teams of the past into today's generation with the benefits it brings, or this Dublin team back to those generations, they'd be hit hard by Meath. I could definitely see the great Meath teams rattling them and doing a job on this Dublin team. But there is no one of that caliber to face this Dublin team. Along with Dublin getting ahead, some of the other have also fallen away by their own standards, the Meath's, Cork's and Galway's of this world. So not only do Dublin get all the advantages, it's come at a time when others are at a low enough ebb, which enlarges the gulf further.

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Kerry got huge government funding to restructure a failing game in the county?

No but they broke the rules, they cheated.
The dublin senior footballers never broke the rules.
The Dublin 2011 team with cluxton and jmc on board beats the 2020 team all day long.

mitchelsontour

ooter wrote: »

No but they broke the rules, they cheated.
The dublin senior footballers never broke the rules.
The Dublin 2011 team with cluxton and jmc on board beats the 2020 team all day long.

What actually happened was fund raising for a team trip, not vast funding for professional coaching.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/living-on-the-edge-of-old-rules-about-commercialism-26327565.html

mitchelsontour wrote: »

What actually happened was fund raising for a team trip, not vast funding for professional coaching.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/living-on-the-edge-of-old-rules-about-commercialism-26327565.html

Probably only the tip of the iceberg, Shure they don't call them cute hoors for nattin.

mitchelsontour

ooter wrote: »

Probably only the tip of the iceberg, Shure they don't call them cute hoors for nattin.

I have no problem accepting what you say, if you could provide some bit of proof it would help your cause.

Your own link is proof that they broke the rules.

mitchelsontour

ooter wrote: »

Your own link is proof that they broke the rules.

I think it shows they skirted the rules as regards fund raising for a trip.
Commercialism was not looked at kindly by the GAA at that time. Remember when sponsorship came in first the font size that was allowed on the jerseys?
It took the GAA a long time to recognise the value associated with the game.
Fellows were allowed do some ads but it had to be directly related to their job I think Tony Doran of wexford did leo yellow ads because he was a farmer.

You have yet to show proof of vast quantities of money being poured in to coaching in Kerry to the detriment of 31 other countries.

major interest

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1223/1186166-is-splitting-dublin-the-answer-to-leinsters-woes/

Piece on rte about the Leinster question and discussing the arguments for splits/amalgamations of counties. He argues the case for amalgamations of counties but seems to dismiss the idea of splits.

Ultimately, I think both would be on the cards if the GAA goes down that route.

major interest wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1223/1186166-is-splitting-dublin-the-answer-to-leinsters-woes/

Piece on rte about the Leinster question and discussing the arguments for splits/amalgamations of counties. He argues the case for amalgamations of counties but seems to dismiss the idea of splits.

Ultimately, I think both would be on the cards if the GAA goes down that route.

Poor enough article really, his rational for not splitting Dublin is identity yet he has no issue amalgating counties because their identity is linked to "Dubs versus the rest".

The system is clearly broken because Kerry have won 15 Munsters this century and Dublin have won 16 leinsters, but Kerry win 11 out of 12 Munsters in the 70/80s and there's nothing to see here.

ooter wrote: »

The system is clearly broken because Kerry have won 15 Munsters this century and Dublin have won 16 leinsters, but Kerry win 11 out of 12 Munsters in the 70/80s and there's nothing to see here.

Munster is a hurling province bar Kerry and West Cork.

The Lost Sheep

JeffKenna wrote: »

Munster is a hurling province bar Kerry and West Cork.

which isnt really true when you look at plenty of areas in South Tipp, West Limerick.
Clonmel and around it is very football orientated and considering Clonmel by considerable distance is biggest town in tipp it says a lot.

Enquiring

major interest wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1223/1186166-is-splitting-dublin-the-answer-to-leinsters-woes/

Piece on rte about the Leinster question and discussing the arguments for splits/amalgamations of counties. He argues the case for amalgamations of counties but seems to dismiss the idea of splits.

Ultimately, I think both would be on the cards if the GAA goes down that route.

I'd put a lot of money on the author of that article being from Dublin.

I think the big question we all have to ask ourselves is how we see the future of Gaelic Games. Do we want to continue down the road we're currently on where you need to have access to large resources in order to compete. Dublin have obviously received huge sums in games development funding but they receive about 1.5 million in sponsorship money every year and that's rising. They spend 2 million in wages and salaries. They spend over 1.5 million on team expenses, over 2 million on administration and other expenses and they can purchase Hollystown golf club and spawell for millions of euro without much issue.

It's not only Dublin though, we have seen other counties pumping large sums into their setups. Just not anywhere near the same scale and obviously without the huge assistance from taxpayers and the GAA. But is this what we want? Counties spending huge sums in order to improve standards, is it in any way sustainable? Looking at the debts of some, it clearly isn't. It's only sustainable in Dublin, the resources are there for 4 counties to compete.

Instead of this professional direction we're going down, we have a much fairer and simpler route available to us. We provide each county with the officials and coaches necessary for them to develop hurling and football. This will not only increase standards across the county but also increase the strength of Gaelic Games in terms of numbers also. We will have to have a new championship system as we'll have about 15/16 counties in Leinster but working that out is for a later date.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

which isnt really true when you look at plenty of areas in South Tipp, West Limerick.
Clonmel and around it is very football orientated and considering Clonmel by considerable distance is biggest town in tipp it says a lot.

So Tipp is a football county your saying?

ArielAtom

JeffKenna wrote: »

So Tipp is a football county your saying?

I’d say tipp are a dual county, as are Cork, Clare might also be considered dual. It’s what the GAA is about, but some counties choose one over the other.

The Lost Sheep

JeffKenna wrote: »

So Tipp is a football county your saying?

not at all. Its dual.