FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

TheTruth123 wrote: »

The latest opinion polls show FF at 11%.

The old days are over, no more jobs for the lads, do what we want, the people have choices

The more TDs run their mouth at SF, SF are gaining support. It was clear by ffg and the media pre election, they didnt want SF doing well. Poor Leo still hasnt got over it

The most recent poll has them at 22%, but that wasn't the point of my post in any case.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1219/1185510-sunday-times-poll/

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Surely you can see why calling for the disbanding of a party that has the support of about a fifth of the country is a bit of an odd call to me. Clearly there is a large chunk of the country that do trust FF to represent them and that should be respected.

I think you are confusing opinion with expectation.
I'm not 'calling for' anything.
I think they are crony gougers and should dissolve. I do not expect that to happen.

Bowie wrote: »

I think you are confusing opinion with expectation.
I'm not 'calling for' anything.

Maybe not, but its certainly dismissing around 22% of the electorate.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Maybe not, but its certainly dismissing around 22% of the electorate.

No It's not. I'm giving my opinion on the Fianna Fail party.

Cluedo Monopoly

There is only one poll that matters.

On Jan 1 2020 FFG had 92 seats.
On Dec 22 2020 FFG have 73 seats.

Civil War politics has also ended and about time too.

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

There is only one poll that matters.

On Jan 1 2020 FFG had 92 seats.
On Dec 22 2020 FFG have 73 seats.

Civil War politics has also ended and about time too.

Hopefully. In the least I can see them cancelling each other out to some extent. In their hurry to grab power they have damaged themselves by partnering up.
Hangers on like the Greens will not do well next election.

Bowie wrote: »

In their hurry to grab power they have damaged themselves by partnering up.

Yet their combined polling in all recent polls is higher than what it was when before they partnered up, so the facts on the ground don't support the word coming from the echo chamber.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Yet their combined polling in all recent polls is higher than what it was when before they partnered up, so the facts on the ground don't support the word coming from the echo chamber.

Polls are 'facts on the ground' now?
Echo chamber? Two people seem to agree that after FG getting their arse handed to them in the last election and MM stating 'civil war politics is over', are wrong for suggesting, civil war politics is over?

Are you not just trying to be a contrarian at this stage?

Bowie wrote: »

Polls are 'facts on the ground' now?
Echo chamber? Two people seem to agree that after FG getting their arse handed to them in the last election and MM stating 'civil war politics is over', are wrong for suggesting, civil war politics is over?

Are you not just trying to be a contrarian at this stage?

I think its called trolling

Bowie wrote: »

Polls are 'facts on the ground' now?
Echo chamber? Two people seem to agree that after FG getting their arse handed to them in the last election and MM stating 'civil war politics is over', are wrong for suggesting, civil war politics is over?

Are you not just trying to be a contrarian at this stage?

What does civil war politics being over have to do with your original claim that they have been damaged by partnering up?

There's nothing else to go on to support that conclusion apart from looking at polls, given their "partnering up" happened following the February election. And they are polling higher combined now than what they were doing back in the election and immediately prior to election, which was just before they went into coalition. So there is no evidence their "partnering up" has damaged them. If anything, the only available data to go on is showing the exact opposite.

Anecdotes that the coalition has damaged both parties is great and all, but there's no actual evidence of that. Unless we are basing the political landscape now on Twitter trends.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

May 2020 opioion poll ffg combined 52%

Government formed end june 2020

December opioion poll 2020 ffg combined 49%

Why lie,on something so simple??
They havnt risen,nor dropped substancially like

So you are taking peak government support period during the initial pandemic as the base point? Interesting choice. Varadkar had a massive 75% approval rating at that time also, which I believe was the highest approval rating on record for any party leader. I think that polling was skewed in support of the FG government of the time because of the period it was taken, but feel free to use it if you want. It doesn't change my point.

Even using that basis doesn't support your argument of both parties being damaged anyway, which is the claim I was refuting.

Accusing me of being a liar purely because I have shown your point to be without any basis is a bit much. I never made any claim of damage or otherwise.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

What does civil war politics being over have to do with your original claim that they have been damaged by partnering up?

There's nothing else to go on to support that conclusion apart from looking at polls, given their "partnering up" happened following the February election. And they are polling higher combined now than what they were doing back in the election and immediately prior to election, which was just before they went into coalition. So there is no evidence their "partnering up" has damaged them. If anything, the only available data to go on is showing the exact opposite.

Anecdotes that the coalition has damaged both parties is great and all, but there's no actual evidence of that. Unless we are basing the political landscape now on Twitter trends.

FF/FG going into partnership damages the idea of choosing between the two. We've a hell of a lot of floating voters. When FF does well, FG flounder and vice versa. FG only get in when FF mess up. So can you see how the traditional tilt from one to the other is not as relevant between partners?
I say hopefully, but them partnering up is historic and opens up the political landscape.

It's opinion. We discus opinions here.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was taking the time period you.mentioned that it had risen simce govt formed,and that was nearest poll??
Its really that simple....calm down

(Government wasnt formed until june 27,opioion poll was in may)

You literally said ffg combined support had risen since they formed govt...this is patently untrue as shown in the opioion polls

Calls to "Calm down", as you came into a very reasonable and fair discussion between me and Bowie to call me a liar

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except you are lying

Claiming ffg support has gone up since govt formed?
When polling data.provided states otherwise

But sure whatever you need to avoid replying to content of the post and run from discussion as you been dismantled with facts and logic

If you have a issue with someone making claims that aren't supported with data then bring it to Bowie, as he made the claim not me.

The only claim I ever made with the data was that there is no suggestion they are damaged from it, which I'm sure you agree with. They got 43% combined in the election and polled at 49% last week.

So our wonderful Govt never gave the Executive in the 6 counties advance notice of the travel ban meaning they had no time to prepare the airports for all the arrivals.

Well i suppose when our own Govt partners dont tell each other everything when would they tell the Shinners n that lot up North

TheTruth123 wrote: »

So our wonderful Govt never gave the Executive in the 6 counties advance notice of the travel ban meaning they had no time to prepare the airports for all the arrivals.

Well i suppose when our own Govt partners dont tell each other everything when would they tell the Shinners n that lot up North

What preparation was needed in the airports? Genuinely curious here.

It was announced at 4pm on Sunday that it was being implemented on Monday. Is that not advanced notice?

[Deleted User]

TheTruth123 wrote: »

So our wonderful Govt never gave the Executive in the 6 counties advance notice of the travel ban meaning they had no time to prepare the airports for all the arrivals.

Well i suppose when our own Govt partners dont tell each other everything when would they tell the Shinners n that lot up North

Our government has allowed 20 flights in the past month from the uk with positive coronavirus cases

No wonder we,'re headed for another lockdown

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

If you have a issue with someone making claims that aren't supported with data then bring it to Bowie, as he made the claim not me.

The only claim I ever made with the data was that there is no suggestion they are damaged from it, which I'm sure you agree with. They got 43% combined in the election and polled at 49% last week.

My opinions are based on the election results and historic voting trends.

Bowie wrote: »

My opinions are based on the election results and historic voting trends.

But your opinion was in relation to something that only happened after the most recent election, so that doesn't actually make sense?

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

But your opinion was in relation to something that only happened after the most recent election, so that doesn't actually make sense?

No it's not.
I've explained this to you.

Bowie wrote: »

FF/FG going into partnership damages the idea of choosing between the two. We've a hell of a lot of floating voters. When FF does well, FG flounder and vice versa. FG only get in when FF mess up. So can you see how the traditional tilt from one to the other is not as relevant between partners?
I say hopefully, but them partnering up is historic and opens up the political landscape.

It's opinion. We discus opinions here.

In short, the tradition is to go from FF to FG or vice versa. IMO, it's less likely for someone browned off with the FF/FG government to go to FF or FG. Hopefully.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

What preparation was needed in the airports? Genuinely curious here.

It was announced at 4pm on Sunday that it was being implemented on Monday. Is that not advanced notice?

Prepartions for more arrivals than expected considering things need to be set up for Corona Virus, staff would need to be called in that were due off etc...

As for the shambles at our own airports

smurgen

Remember when Varadkar attacked NPHET and CMO and lied in doing so?

"Varadkar first expressed his views on RTÉ’s Claire Byrne Live on Monday night, saying the recommendation “came out of the blue” stating that nobody knew Level 5 was being contemplated until Sunday"

"“Government and NPHET have to get back on the same page,” he said, adding that people “won’t see a repeat of this” late-night recommendation."

"THE HEALTH MINISTER Stephen Donnelly and the Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan discussed the “deteriorating epidemiological situation” before NPHET gave its Level 5 recommendation on Sunday evening.

A spokesperson for the Health Minister said he informed the Taoiseach on Saturday afternoon that a NPHET meeting would be held on Sunday “arising out of concerns about escalating case numbers”.

Donnelly and Dr Holohan “spoke before and after” the NPHET meeting on Sunday, the spokesperson said.

Before the meeting, they discussed the “deteriorating epidemiological situation”.

Does Varadkar take any responsibility for undermining NPHET and the CMO?

https://www.thejournal.ie/leo-varadkar-tony-holohan-on-same-team-5226728-Oct2020/

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/irish-public-liability-premiums-jump-20-annually-in-recent-years-1.4444294

smurgen wrote: »

Remember when Varadkar attacked NPHET and CMO and lied in doing so?

"Varadkar first expressed his views on RTÉ’s Claire Byrne Live on Monday night, saying the recommendation “came out of the blue” stating that nobody knew Level 5 was being contemplated until Sunday"

"“Government and NPHET have to get back on the same page,” he said, adding that people “won’t see a repeat of this” late-night recommendation."

"THE HEALTH MINISTER Stephen Donnelly and the Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan discussed the “deteriorating epidemiological situation” before NPHET gave its Level 5 recommendation on Sunday evening.

A spokesperson for the Health Minister said he informed the Taoiseach on Saturday afternoon that a NPHET meeting would be held on Sunday “arising out of concerns about escalating case numbers”.

Donnelly and Dr Holohan “spoke before and after” the NPHET meeting on Sunday, the spokesperson said.

Before the meeting, they discussed the “deteriorating epidemiological situation”.

Does Varadkar take any responsibility for undermining NPHET and the CMO?

https://www.thejournal.ie/leo-varadkar-tony-holohan-on-same-team-5226728-Oct2020/

Did he get any film quotes in his attack that time?

You wouldnt know with him, he might not have meant what he said. Could have all been a joke for a bet

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

Remember when Varadkar attacked NPHET and CMO and lied in doing so?

"Varadkar first expressed his views on RTɒs Claire Byrne Live on Monday night, saying the recommendation “came out of the blue” stating that nobody knew Level 5 was being contemplated until Sunday"

"“Government and NPHET have to get back on the same page,” he said, adding that people “won’t see a repeat of this” late-night recommendation."

"THE HEALTH MINISTER Stephen Donnelly and the Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan discussed the “deteriorating epidemiological situation” before NPHET gave its Level 5 recommendation on Sunday evening.

A spokesperson for the Health Minister said he informed the Taoiseach on Saturday afternoon that a NPHET meeting would be held on Sunday “arising out of concerns about escalating case numbers”.

Donnelly and Dr Holohan “spoke before and after” the NPHET meeting on Sunday, the spokesperson said.

Before the meeting, they discussed the “deteriorating epidemiological situation”.

Does Varadkar take any responsibility for undermining NPHET and the CMO?

https://www.thejournal.ie/leo-varadkar-tony-holohan-on-same-team-5226728-Oct2020/

Has Leo really got this hold on the Shinners?

Cluedo Monopoly

Irish public liability premiums jump 20% annually in recent years

I wonder which party we can blame for this.

blanch152 wrote: »

Has Leo really got this hold on the Shinners?

No its the Shinners he is helping with his antics

We will be grateful forever

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Our government has allowed 20 flights in the past month from the uk with positive coronavirus cases

No wonder we,'re headed for another lockdown

20 people who subsequently tested positive travelled into the country. And our government is to blame? Words fail me.
It’s up to each and every one of us to follow the guidelines. Personal responsibility was never more important.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

My opinions are based on the election results and historic voting trends.

You are projecting a different future to historic voting trends based on a hope, a wish and a prayer that FF and FG in coalition means an end to their hold on government.

It’s an opinion, but it is based on wishful thinking rather than facts. The numbers show that FF and FG together could become the permanent government because no party trusts Sinn Fein. That is an opinion based on the evidence of the election result and the subsequent attempts at government formation together with the evidence of SinnFein failure to gain the trust of parties in the North.