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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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Corcaigh84

CorkRed93 wrote: »

No because Kilkenny weren't pumped with taxpayers money

As a Corkman who can't stand the sight of KK, they were just better. Fairly. The football situation is now a jokeshop.

Enquiring

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Well they got the funding because they have such a large population and the access/link with schools and gaa clubs isnt near the same as it is in a lot of the country.
Other counties could and should look at other areas to get development officers in place. External funding if they cant get access to that fund that dublin are using.
Majority of the development funding is going to very basics of the sport and teaching kids at the lowest level. That happens through clubs and their resources in most of country.

Im not from Dublin(ask any from rugby forum where im not regarded as Leinster or a Dub at all.....)
Should some counties get more funding in development staff etc. Of course but that shouldnt be a reason to say Dublin shouldnt have got the funding theyve got.

Dublin got 25 million plus this century for games development alone, the next highest in Cork got less than 2 million. Justify that?

Dublin still get 1.3 million per year for games development despite gaining huge sponsorship money from a number of sources.

Again, you ignore the 2 million spent on wages and salaries and the fact that no other county could come close to that level of funding. Dublin have just bought Hollystown golf club after buying Spawell for 9 million a couple of years ago. Dublin are operating at a professional level with resources to match. No other county can even dream of figures Dublin have.

That you have read all this and choose to ignore it again questions your 'neutral' tag once more.

ClanofLams

Barring a game where they were down to fourteen for forty minutes, the closest anyone has come to Dublin in an All Ireland semi final or final since 2017 is six points and it would have been more that six in all those games if Dublin had any need for it to be.

People can agree/disagree about funding, what should be done etc but anyone who thinks competitive championship annually will be restored under the current format is delusional.

namloc1980

It's boring at this stage. An utterly dominant team doesn't make for a good competition.

FintanMcluskey

theguzman wrote: »

Kilkenny like Kerry were pumped with sheer talent from a small population pool and from modest resources, what both counties achieved was truely special and remarkable.

Give the same level of resources to Kerry and Kilkenny and you'd have both Kerry winning the Liam McCarthy and Kilkenny with the Sam Maguire within a decade.

Take the Gooch, a gifted light lad from Killarney, he was no beefcake living in a gym eating raw Soy like a stall fed banbh, there is no skill in Dublin only sheer gym training, the same in the Limerick Hurling squad. Either it is an amateur game or not, what we have seen is nothing but cheating. That asterisk next to every Dublin victory grows bigger and bigger like the biceps for their players. Amateur teams had such gems like Seanie O'Leary an overweight Cork hurler who wouldn't get look in today, he had natural skill, these lads wouldn't get a luck in now unless they resemble some steroid driven bodybuilder.

Conditioning and running.

Pawing goals into the net won the game.

This Dublin team would win the Aussie rules league

Deusexmachina

CorkRed93 wrote: »

I will forward on the advice to every leinster County.
" Please look and learn from the Dubs. Volunteer harder , get global insurance companies on board and finally ask the Gaa & government to give you a big fat dig out"

The alternative to aspiring to reach Dublin's level is to bitch and moan. You choose.

RoyalCelt

Gooey Looey wrote: »

To reach the same level needs money!

We just need to volunteer harder.

Dublin will obviously never agree to a split. What will eventually happen is a boycott. You'll probably get 4 or 5 other counties who are too proud to join in and we'll have a 4/5 team All Ireland for a year or two.

If all teams were to boycott they could have their own all Ireland and name it the "All Ireland County Championship". If Dublin are happy to be given the Sam Maguire every year they will be welcome.

If they want to enter the fun they'll be forced to come to the table. It's one thing Sam maguire becoming a 1 team competition but Leinster has to be saved first before they're even considered to be split. And that has to begin by Dublin not competing in Leinster every year. Other counties need their day in the sun. And other counties don't have Dublins advantages to even dream about competing.

equivariant

Its completely unhealthy for any league/championship to have such a dominant team. Comparisons with Kilkenny hurling or Kerry football in the 70s/80s are ridiculous. By the time those teams had won 6 or 7 AIs they were clearly hanging on to squeeze the last from an exceptional generation of players. Not so with Dublin. If anything they are pulling away from the rest.

Probably the most successful sports league in the world in terms of viewer numbers and fan interest is the NFL. They actively go out to ensure competitiveness and to discourage one team dominance (the patriots notwithstanding). The GAA needs to do likewise very soon. They are a David Clifford injury away from Dublin winning 10 or 12 in a row

The Lost Sheep

equivariant wrote: »

Its completely unhealthy for any league/championship to have such a dominant team. Comparisons with Kilkenny hurling or Kerry football in the 70s/80s are ridiculous. By the time those teams had won 6 or 7 AIs they were clearly hanging on to squeeze the last from an exceptional generation of players. Not so with Dublin. If anything they are pulling away from the rest.

Probably the most successful sports league in the world in terms of viewer numbers and fan interest is the NFL. They actively go out to ensure competitiveness and to discourage one team dominance (the patriots notwithstanding). The GAA needs to do likewise very soon. They are a David Clifford injury away from Dublin winning 10 or 12 in a row

You cant compare NFL to GAA though. You can be traded quite a bit between teams in NFL. You cant in GAA. Not the same. Expecting most teams to be competitive with the Dublins, Kerry etc is completely unrealistic anyway with how competitions are structured

RoyalCelt

Deusexmachina wrote: »

The alternative to aspiring to reach Dublin's level is to bitch and moan. You choose.

I'd rather bitch and moan. Counties are basically in a situation where you don't try and lose to dublin by 20 or try and lose by less. Who cares none of us will never beat Dublin in championship again and rightly so. We have absolutely no right to be competing with ya.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Conditioning and running.

Pawing goals into the net won the game.

This Dublin team would win the Aussie rules league

Probably not. You can't score goals with your hands in AFL.

RoyalCelt

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You cant compare NFL to GAA though. You can be traded quite a bit between teams in NFL. You cant in GAA. Not the same. Expecting most teams to be competitive with the Dublins, Kerry etc is completely unrealistic anyway with how competitions are structured

Most counties would be very competitive with kerry if they received Dublin's funding and given their advantages. Just like Dublin hurlers are now competitive with teams they'd get smoked by otherwise.

The Lost Sheep

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Most counties would be very competitive with kerry if they received Dublin's funding and given their advantages. Just like Dublin hurlers are now competitive with teams they'd get smoked by otherwise.

No they wouldnt. Its taken a long time for Tipp to build into a provincial winning side. Just getting huge money doesnt mean you will win or should win.

CorkRed93 wrote: »

Nobody can get to that level. Ever. No matter what nonsense argument you come up with. All Ireland football champ is dead. Hopefully with the return of crowds next year fans act and don't show up.
Split Dublin in 4 or we will have nothing.

It isnt dead. Dublin cant and wont keep this going forever. No team can. In any sport.

Higgins5473

Delighted with the result today, as sweet as the rest. Keep em coming. Especially seeing the disgusting behaviour from the Mayo players in the tunnel at half time making it all the sweeter. They just don’t have the talent or mental strength that Dublin have. Keegans cheating, A O Shea’s and C O Connors antics and filth keep karma in play all the time and ensure that they will never win an All Ireland.

Up the Dubs

[Deleted User]

CorkRed93 wrote: »

Nobody can get to that level . Ever. No matter what nonsense argument you come up with. All Ireland football champ is dead. Hopefully with the return of crowds next year fans act and don't show up.
Split Dublin in 4 asap

What will you complain about when the Leinster championship semis is Dublin 1 v Dublin 2 and Dublin 3 v Dublin 4?

The prospect of that being a possibility is surely much worse than what you have now

threeball

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

No they wouldnt. Its taken a long time for Tipp to build into a provincial winning side. Just getting huge money doesnt mean you will win or should win.

It isnt dead. Dublin cant and wont keep this going forever. No team can. In any sport.

Put Liverpool in the first division and I guarantee they win the league every year. Thats essentially whats happened in the GAA. A professional team was fousted upon an amateur organisation and predictably destroyed the competition. The fact that Mayo have been competitive in most finals is a testament to then and deeply unfair on those players who should have ended that particular famine in a level playing field.

The Lost Sheep

threeball wrote: »

Put Liverpool in the first division and I guarantee they win the league every year. Thats essentially whats happened in the GAA. A professional team was fousted upon an amateur organisation and predictably destroyed the competition. The fact that Mayo have been competitive in most finals is a testament to then and deeply unfair on those players who should have ended that particular famine in a level playing field.

It isnt. Liverpool if ended up in first division they would have dropped based on performances.

People here are trying to compare many division 4 sides with division 1 sides and expecting similar enough from each.
That we have the main competition with the provinces and then
Dublin arent professional. The players work jobs and train before/after just like every other countys players. They are supported by staff in the same manner. Just look at list a few posts back of tipp hurlers back room team. Very similar to what Dubs footballers have.

threeball

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It isnt. Liverpool if ended up in first division they would have dropped based on performances.

People here are trying to compare many division 4 sides with division 1 sides and expecting similar enough from each.
That we have the main competition with the provinces and then
Dublin arent professional. The players work jobs and train before/after just like every other countys players. They are supported by staff in the same manner. Just look at list a few posts back of tipp hurlers back room team. Very similar to what Dubs footballers have.

No ones talking about division 4 teams. None of the division one teams are laying a glove on Dublin and its not because they're rubbish. Anyone of the other top 7 can beat one another on a given day. Thats not true of Dublin. Fitness and conditioning they're streets ahead. They burn off other teams as the game wears on. Same again today. No other team will achieve that level of fitness due to their circumstances. Dublin are more akin to an Aussie rules team in that regard.

ClanofLams

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It isnt dead. Dublin cant and wont keep this going forever. No team can. In any sport.

GAA isn't really comparable to any other sport that I can think of, being amateur and with the county division.

In any sport, funding has a massive impact, that's well proven. Combine funding disparities (even if GAA do eventually equalise funding, commercial income will still make Dublin far richer) with a massive, still growing population advantage and the outcome is domination. That won't change without changing the underlying structures.

blanch152

equivariant wrote: »

Its completely unhealthy for any league/championship to have such a dominant team. Comparisons with Kilkenny hurling or Kerry football in the 70s/80s are ridiculous. By the time those teams had won 6 or 7 AIs they were clearly hanging on to squeeze the last from an exceptional generation of players. Not so with Dublin. If anything they are pulling away from the rest.

Probably the most successful sports league in the world in terms of viewer numbers and fan interest is the NFL. They actively go out to ensure competitiveness and to discourage one team dominance (the patriots notwithstanding). The GAA needs to do likewise very soon. They are a David Clifford injury away from Dublin winning 10 or 12 in a row

The only way of achieving that is through amalgamation. Until that is on the table, splitting Dublin is off it.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Kerry could potentially up their game. Their main sponsor, Kerry Group is a 20Bn plus company. If they could be persuaded to invest more it would make an impact.

The problem is that without major sponsorship it's very hard for a team to get money. They are limited as to how they can generate revenue as most of it goes back to GAA HQ.

Stacksofwacks

Teams in other major sports have gone on long winning streaks, Celtic have just won 9 in a row.. I think Dublin may do 8 or 9 but I've a sneaky feeling that Kerry will be the team to put a stop to that gallop. There is too much history and they are too much invested in football down there to let this continue and they like nothing more than to ''quieten the Dubs''

Boom__Boom

Number of Football Teams 2019

Underage Adult Under 20 Total

Cork 1091 255 116 1462
Dublin 1137 186 25 1348
Meath 590 110 41 741
Kildare 570 94 36 700
Tipperary 511 74 45 630
Kerry 468 113 40 621
Mayo 469 84 38 591
Galway 382 102 40 524
Donegal 382 79 36 497
Louth 374 73 21 468
Tyrone 339 96 26 461
Limerick 366 60 34 460
Waterford 385 56 3 444
Wexford 291 79 38 408
Down 289 83 13 385
Cavan 257 78 34 369
Clare 259 52 22 333
Armagh 231 66 24 321
Monaghan 225 64 6 295
Derry 208 66 20 294
Wicklow 206 67 14 287
Roscommon 201 56 21 278
Westmeath 202 59 17 278
Laois 196 64 17 277
Antrim 188 62 20 270
Kilkenny 202 27 4 233
Longford 164 33 15 212
Offaly 142 56 13 211
Sligo 153 37 17 207
Fermanagh 148 42 11 201
Leitrim 105 47 12 164
Carlow 105 43 15 163

Number of Football Teams 2017

Underage Adult Under 21 Total

Cork 932 265 118 1315
Dublin 947 189 26 1162
Meath 481 104 41 626
Kildare 487 90 34 611
Kerry 441 122 36 599
Tipperary 437 75 43 555
Mayo 430 85 35 550
Galway 368 103 40 511
Donegal 367 83 35 485
Tyrone 335 106 23 464
Limerick 351 68 32 451
Wexford 293 85 31 409
Louth 313 74 18 405
Waterford 268 57 20 345
Down 249 81 10 340
Cavan 230 76 24 330
Armagh 210 69 26 305
Clare 213 51 24 288
Derry 196 71 18 285
Laois 201 64 17 282
Westmeath 194 62 19 275
Wicklow 203 65 1 269
Roscommon 193 53 22 268
Antrim 173 69 25 267
Monaghan 180 61 14 255
Sligo 155 38 13 206
Kilkenny 161 25 7 193
Offaly 126 53 10 189
Longford 138 32 18 188
Carlow 121 44 14 179
Leitrim 95 51 12 158
Fermanagh 111 40 4 155

Change in Number of Football Teams 2017 to 2019

Underage Adult Under 20 Total

Cork 159 -10 -2 147
Dublin 190 -3 -1 186
Meath 109 6 0 115
Kildare 83 4 2 89
Tipperary 74 -1 2 75
Kerry 27 -9 4 22
Mayo 39 -1 3 41
Galway 14 -1 0 13
Donegal 15 -4 1 12
Louth 61 -1 3 63
Tyrone 4 -10 3 -3
Limerick 15 -8 2 9
Waterford 117 -1 -17 99
Wexford -2 -6 7 -1
Down 40 2 3 45
Cavan 27 2 10 39
Clare 46 1 -2 45
Armagh 21 -3 -2 16
Monaghan 45 3 -8 40
Derry 12 -5 2 9
Wicklow 3 2 13 18
Roscommon 8 3 -1 10
Westmeath 8 -3 -2 3
Laois -5 0 0 -5
Antrim 15 -7 -5 3
Kilkenny 41 2 -3 40
Longford 26 1 -3 24
Offaly 16 3 3 22
Sligo -2 -1 4 1
Fermanagh 37 2 7 46
Leitrim 10 -4 0 6
Carlow -16 -1 1 -16

rossie1977

At the end of the day arguably the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best teams in the country didn't win their provisionals this year.

Dublin have advantages of course but many counties have advantages when you break it down by province. In Connacht Mayo and Galway have hundreds of players eligible at minor and schools level yet Roscommon with a fraction of the players or funding have been able to keep it competitive with the big 2 at that level past decade all thanks to tremendous work by a few small clubs.

GAA has never been about fairness or a level playing field. Teams will always huge advantages over others. I mean compare the money spent by Tyrone and Fermanagh and its night and day.

Downlinz

As a Mayo man for the first final in my life I didn't bother putting flags out or even watching the game, I watched Munster instead and frankly made the correct choice. I have huge admiration for this Mayo side but my enthusiasm for the championship is just gone at this stage and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

threeball

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Teams in other major sports have gone on long winning streaks, Celtic have just won 9 in a row.. I think Dublin may do 8 or 9 but I've a sneaky feeling that Kerry will be the team to put a stop to that gallop. There is too much history and they are too much invested in football down there to let this continue and they like nothing more than to ''quieten the Dubs''

Kerry nicking one every 5 or 6yrs is hardly something that will keep football alive. Its on its last legs as it is. Sponsors of other counties will either reduce the funding they currently give or pull out completely. No ones going to pump 100k into a team in a race thats a foregone conclusion.

equivariant

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You cant compare NFL to GAA though. You can be traded quite a bit between teams in NFL. You cant in GAA. Not the same. Expecting most teams to be competitive with the Dublins, Kerry etc is completely unrealistic anyway with how competitions are structured

The point I'm making is not about professionalism.transfer market. The point is that the NFL actively puts rules in place to counterbalance teams that have natural advantages - they have draft lotteries and salary caps etc. Of course the GAA can't exactly replicate those things, but they can try to put some measures in place to actively disadvantage the reigning champions no matter who that might be.

beggars_bush

blanch152 wrote: »

The only way of achieving that is through amalgamation. Until that is on the table, splitting Dublin is off it.

What counties are you going to amalgamate?

threeball

Downlinz wrote: »

As a Mayo man for the first final in my life I didn't bother putting flags out or even watching the game, I watched Munster instead and frankly made the correct choice. I have huge admiration for this Mayo side but my enthusiasm for the championship is just gone at this stage and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

The mstch thread was the quietest ever for an all ireland. I've seen busier provincial threads.The interest in disappearing fast and the cash cow will be a cash cow no more as no one will attend the games. Its will be the greatest backfire of a plan to grow the game in history.

Dyr

beggars_bush wrote: »

What counties are you going to amalgamate?

There'll be some tough decisions, because counties like Meath and Kildare will be asked why they're ****e depite their population advantage over counties wilth much lower populations who are competitive.

It could get embarassing for the whingers.