McMurphy wrote: » He's cool with Maira Cahill's membership of the same dissident group responsible for Omagh because (and I swear this is true): Cahill was "only a member for 6 months". And: She "was a confused young girl who joined the dissidents because of Sinn Fein" That's the truth you're getting from me, honest to god.
Deleted User wrote: » Whats the difference mulcahy has some pretty serious war-crime and reprisal accusations about him?
hatrickpatrick wrote: » Everything the British side did during the Troubles was wrong, because the very cause they were fighting for was itself wrong. Many things the IRA did were also wrong, because their actions were wrong. But any British actions, whether those actions themselves were right or wrong in isolation, were ultimately wrong anyway, because the entire reason for the conflict's existence was based upon the British acting abhorrently to begin with. There is only one action the British could have taken in response to The Troubles which would have been morally acceptable, and that would have been allowing civil rights marchers to march unimpeded, followed by granting their requests to be treated as equal citizens. Instead, their actions served to shore up one side of the conflict's supremacy and dominance over the other. Regardless of any other factors, regardless of history, regardless of context, regardless of literally anything else, this makes them the villains. End of story. Fighting to maintain one's power to oppress another who rejects the imposition of that oppression makes one a pr!ck. It's as simple as that. It is impossible to justify. There is no such thing as justified oppression. There is no such thing as justified discrimination. It is never morally acceptable to deny somebody a vote, or a job, or an allocation of a public resource, based on which demographic that individual belongs to. The second you take up arms to defend your power to treat people like that, you are automatically the villain in the story. Period.
Bishop of hope wrote: » No argument as such with that. Just wondering if you think that makes everything the IRA or any nationalist organisation (including SF because the were prepared to justify it all politically) right or justifiable?
hatrickpatrick wrote: » No. Absolutely, unequivocally, unquestionably not. Many, many things the IRA did were unspeakably evil. As soon as they began killing random Protestants in tit for tat reprisals, or bombing random civilian venues in England, they crossed the line and that's where my support for them ends - no ifs, no buts, it was wrong and unacceptable. Indeed, I still view the killing of Mountbatten as unacceptable because at the very least civilians were recklessly endangered and, more likely, the IRA knew they would kill civilians in that attack and didn't care. F*ck that. There's no justifying that. Collateral damage as a concept has never been something I've been ok with in any context, and certainly not when it's so recklessly invoked. The argument between myself and Blanch started over Stanley's justifying of the Warrenpoint attack, which was a successful military-only attack, and my agreement thereof. If the IRA had stuck to attacks targeting only the RUC, the British Army and Loyalist paramilitaries, I wouldn't have a single condemnation for them. As it happens, unfortunately, they strayed from that purpose and crossed the line into full-on villains. I'm merely arguing that not one single action by the British side can be justified, because the conflict could have ended within weeks if they had allowed civil rights marches to take place and changed the law to ban the kind of discrimination those marches were protesting against. Blanch and others can claim that the IRA didn't care about civil rights and they may be right when it comes to a hardcore minority, but the IRA enjoyed its biggest recruitment drives in the immediate aftermath of incidents such as Duke Street 1969 and Bloody Sunday 1972. The vast majority of the people who supported the IRA, at least initially, were focused on protecting the nationalist population from Crown Forces and hurting those same Crown Forces in an attempt to force them away from brutalising civilians.
mattser wrote: » Gardai and Defence Forces down here were also fair game when it suited.
Bishop of hope wrote: » In the context of his post hatpatrick didnt say he supported any actions against civilians anywhere or security forces this side of the border. That wasn't his point and he was clear he thought the IRA went too far very often, but he understands their struggle and the reasons for much of it. Surely there had to be sympathy for the nationalist Catholic community in NI. The regime that ruled them were in tolerably oppressive and backed by an uncaring and violent British army. In that and most of his post i agree with him.
Bishop of hope wrote: » In the context of his post hatpatrick didnt say he supported any actions against civilians anywhere or security forces this side of the border. That wasn't his point and he was clear he thought the IRA went too far very often, but he understands their struggle and the reasons for much of it. Surely there had to be sympathy for the nationalist Catholic community in NI. The regime that ruled them were intolerably oppressive and backed by an uncaring and violent British army. In that and most of his post, I agree with him.
jimmycrackcorm wrote: » The problem with the IRA argument is that I don't believe that the campaign of violence was necessary. I'm not the only one either seeing as SF now pursue the peaceful option. A united Ireland could never be achieved through violence and is likely now to happen through simple demographics and democratic transition. Arguing that the IRA campaign was necessary is like arguing that the SNP should have undertaken a bombing campaign for an independent Scotland.
blanch152 wrote: » Disingenous and selective interpretation of my posts on Mairia Cahill. That is your posting style so it isn't unexpected.
McMurphy wrote: » Omagh was carried out by dissidents Brenner (I'm sure you know this already) - Maira Cahill's crew. Enda and Joan embraced her with open arms lest we forget.
blanch152 wrote: » Nauseating disingenuous nonsense. Mairia Cahill has apologised for her six months with the dissidents as a vulnerable young woman recovering from horrific abuse by Sinn Fein and the PIRA.
Bishop of hope wrote: » No its not and that's a disengenuous argument. Were conditions in Scotland like Northern Ireland in 1969, no they weren't and I'm surprised you'd even make that argument tbh. Catholics in the north had virtually no rights and were second class citizens, maybe very close to the South African idea of being citizens.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Catholics and those of irish decent were treated v.poorly in scotland,particularly west scotland up until well into mid 80s?? Not to extent as the north,but they deffo had a fairly rough time,hence why likes of celtic prospered for so long on its irish ancestry.......sectarianism is still an ugly enough problem in some of smaller towns there
Nitrogan wrote: » Sinn Fein have an 'unofficial' troll army?
Bishop of hope wrote: » Who'd have thought it?
“Sinn Féin does not operate any Facebook groups and Sinn Féin is not responsible for any of the content in this group or any other Facebook group. “There is an onus on social media platforms such as Facebook to tackle this type of content, which is clearly unacceptable, and in violation of their own standards. We have contacted Facebook to make it clear that Sinn Féin has nothing to do with this group and that they should remove it,” a spokesman for the party said.
McMurphy wrote: » Not according to your own link. Just skip past that part did we?
Bishop of hope wrote: » There's SF tds and party members in it and it's being portrayed as unofficial by SF, so where did I say different?
FrancieBrady wrote: » I'm in about 10 - 15 groups on Facebook...am I responsible for the content? No:) Do I even read everything posted to them? No. The Phantom FG Dirt Trawler earned another weeks wages I see.
Bubbaclaus wrote: » Why are Sinn Fein taking this action if this is just the workings of some " FG dirt trawler"?
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wc.vanillicon.com/v2/c6e76a2e0d85c3808d93c2f75a0c528d.svg)
