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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

Mod:

I have updated the OP of this thread with a list of threadbanned users, I would advise posters to check on this before posting in the thread again or a forum sanction will be imposed for breaching same.

If you want to discuss your threadban feel free to PM the banning mod (or myself if you can't remember who that is and I'll point you in the right direction).

Threadbanned Users:
DelaneyIn
TheCitizen
V8 Interceptor
Hamachi - lifted 14/03/22, reinstated 28/03/22
Effects
biko
Kivaro
Eric Cartman
Swindled
Gradius
RobbieTheRobber - lifted 25/08/21 - reinstated 27/08/21
Cordell - lifted 16/08/21
Gangster Yippin
blindjustice
Eircom_Sucks
TomSweeney
Wojtek the Bear
Cordell
klaz
0ph0rce0
tonium22
tonycascarino
Real Donald Trump
Star Bingo
Nuts102
TomTomTim
Nosler
Absolute Zero
Hungry Burger

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Comments

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Now... this was particularly dishonest/misleading of you.. You stated earlier that you were in Ireland for 30 years, which suggested (considering the context of the discussion) that you were not a native Irish person. Hence taking the view of someone who was in Ireland, but not Irish, and contributing their views of Ireland

I never once suggested That I was I person that isn't Irish was looking at their posts.

bubblypop wrote: »

I was overseas during the last presidential election.
Same as I was for the constitutional referendum on the 8th.

You’re not making any sense now. Go to bed and get some sleep. We’ll resume the discussion when you’re capable of some coherence.

When we do resume, let’s make it less about you and focus on the broader topic where there is a legitimate exchange of ideas.

At least bubblypop got attention for a page or two so that's a win for her/him.

bubblypop wrote: »

I was overseas during the last presidential election.
Same as I was for the constitutional referendum on the 8th.

Whooptie do. So was I. What's your point? I still value my citizenship.

Seems a really oddball response to what I posted.

jmreire wrote: »

You have no problem then, you can settle where ever your fancy takes you !!!

Not really. It's only in western (and some Eastern European) nations where you have the chance to get citizenship and be accepted.

If he tried that in Asia, Africa, etc, you can be legally <whatever>, but the average person won't accept him, and most officials won't either. It's not even about being accepted as the same as a native, but being accepted as <insert nationality>, because the national identity is so fixed.

I speak pretty good Mandarin, I know most of the cultural norms, have extensive contacts.. I could live there for fifty years, and I'll always be a laowai, a foreigner. I know a few foreigners who have managed to get residency or live there long term, with their chinese wives, and kids.. nope, they're still foreigners.

And that is the way it is in most countries.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Now... this was particularly dishonest/misleading of you.. You stated earlier that you were in Ireland for 30 years, which suggested (considering the context of the discussion) that you were not a native Irish person. Hence taking the view of someone who was in Ireland, but not Irish, and contributing their views of immigration in Ireland.

You misunderstood, or misinterpreted Hamachi's post. I don't know whether it was intentional, or a mistake, but you've decided to double down since then. Why? Why not admit you misunderstood, rather than pushing something that you have no personal investment in? Just seems strange.

I was overseas during the last presidential election.
Same as I was for the constitutional referendum on the 8th.

bubblypop wrote: »

No, it's really not telling at all!
So am I Irish?
Or am I any other nationality?
What do you think? And does it matter?

I know you might find this hard to comprehend, but I don’t find you particularly fascinating. The goal of this thread is to debate the merits / demerits of multiculturalism.

It’s not about you. Frankly, I don’t care what you are or how you define yourself.

What does exercise me is discussing why Ireland should have a robust, skills-based immigration system that prioritizes high caliber inward migration and excludes those who have no legal right to migrate here.

Can we shift the focus away from you and return to the topic at hand?

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would I put any privilege of Irish citizenship?
What would being an Irish citizen to for me?

An EU passport for starters.

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest, I suspect this is one of the major reasons that multiculturalism is failing in western nations. People don't appreciate getting citizenship.

Denmark is working hard on making sure Danish citizenship isn't valueless.
If a decision is reached that a foreign citizen is deemed a threat to national security, the person in question will, as a general rule, have his or her residence permit revoked and be deported to the country he or she is a citizen of.

Citizenship then not only becomes a right but also an obligation.

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, if I am going to live in another country where English is not the first language, I would obviously make an effort to learn the local language .

Which is probably why I have, very basic, Albanian, German, Swedish, and Finnish
And I am at the moment, doing more Finnish, German & a little bit of Albanian

You have no problem then, you can settle where ever your fancy takes you !!!

bubblypop wrote: »

And what difference does it make?

Let me put it this way.

When you are given a free house you don't have an understanding of the pride and joy of someone who had to work really hard for them to get a nice house also.

I think until you have travelled more and experienced other cultures it may be difficult to sense the national pride Kurds, Turks, Moroccans etc have in their nations.

A hint, if you do move abroad, don't tell them you think citizenship in their country isn't worth anything. Not everyone will agree with your point of view on this matter.
Also, if you do move, try to assimilate into their culture. Many don't appreciate people moving in and not appreciating their country.

Hamachi wrote: »

You don’t understand what a privilege it is to be a citizen of a stable, safe, developed nation where there are almost limitless possibilities for self- and economic-actualisation?

The fact that I need to spell this out explicitly for you is pretty telling.

Are you serious?
Of course / it is obvious to me how great it is to live in a country where the majority of people believe in an equal society for all.
Sure let's look it up online......

biko wrote: »

I see. Hence the no value you place in your Irish citizenship, it was free and gratis for you.

To be honest, I suspect this is one of the major reasons that multiculturalism is failing in western nations. People don't appreciate getting citizenship.

Past migration led to people who were grateful for the opportunity to live/work in a foreign country, to set down roots, and for their children to better them in the new country.

However, the world has shifted due to the wave of identity politics, and now, people feel entitled to citizenship. It has no value to them. They hold to the identity of their original countries/cultures, making little effort to integrate in the new country, and passing that lack of value on to their children.

bubblypop wrote: »

People can hold more than one passport and more than one citizenship.
But why should anyone pay huge money to become a citizen of Ireland?

For the very reason you raised. To have a voice in how the country is run. Citizenship. It's important. Hence the discussion at hand.

And... it's not huge money. It's about 1k euro for the certificate, so.. say about 2k after all the paperwork, solicitor fees etc are done.

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would I put any privilege of Irish citizenship?
What would being an Irish citizen to for me?

So, you believe that anyone, at all, if they are in a country, should be able to vote in elections?

Citizenship carries protections too. Holding an Irish passport, and being Irish, is of tremendous benefit while living abroad, due to the general reputation of the country.

bubblypop wrote: »

Nope, I'm not
I'm Irish

Now... this was particularly dishonest/misleading of you.. You stated earlier that you were in Ireland for 30 years, which suggested (considering the context of the discussion) that you were not a native Irish person. Hence taking the view of someone who was in Ireland, but not Irish, and contributing their views of immigration in Ireland.

You misunderstood, or misinterpreted Hamachi's post. I don't know whether it was intentional, or a mistake, but you've decided to double down since then. Why? Why not admit you misunderstood, rather than pushing something that you have no personal investment in? Just seems strange.

biko wrote: »

I see. Hence the no value you place in your Irish citizenship, it was free and gratis for you.

And what difference does it make?

Hamachi wrote: »

You don’t understand what a privilege it is to be a citizen of a stable, safe, developed nation where there are almost limitless possibilities for self- and economic-actualisation?

The fact that I need to spell this out explicitly for you is pretty telling.

No, it's really not telling at all!
So am I Irish?
Or am I any other nationality?
What do you think? And does it matter?

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would I put any privilege of Irish citizenship?
What would being an Irish citizen to for me?

You don’t understand what a privilege it is to be a citizen of a stable, safe, developed nation where there are almost limitless possibilities for self- and economic-actualisation?

The fact that I need to spell this out explicitly for you is pretty telling.

I see. Hence the no value you place in your Irish citizenship, it was free and gratis for you.

biko wrote: »

I rest my case. It's pretty clear you have no particular grá for the nation you apparently have lived a long time in.

Are you a "citizen of the world" perchance?

Nope, I'm not
I'm Irish

biko wrote: »

I suppose the concept of national pride and the sense of belonging is lost on you.

Me, if I moved to France with the intention to remain there decades I'd very vigorously learn the language, the customs, and get myself a citizenship so even though I was not French by birth I'd make my damndest to fit in and take pride in my new country.

Yep, if I am going to live in another country where English is not the first language, I would obviously make an effort to learn the local language .

Which is probably why I have, very basic, Albanian, German, Swedish, and Finnish
And I am at the moment, doing more Finnish, German & a little bit of Albanian

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would I put any privilege of Irish citizenship?
What would being an Irish citizen to for me?

I rest my case. It's pretty clear you have no particular grá for the nation you apparently have lived a long time in.

Are you a "citizen of the world" perchance?

Hamachi wrote: »

How little value you place on the privilege of Irish citizenship.

Why would I put any privilege of Irish citizenship?
What would being an Irish citizen to for me?

biko wrote: »

I suppose the concept of national pride and the sense of belonging is lost on you.

Me, if I moved to France with the intention to remain there decades I'd very vigorously learn the language, the customs, and get myself a citizenship so even though I was not French by birth I'd make my damndest to fit in and take pride in my new country.

As would anybody who is committed to their new home and with whom the concept of the ‘family of the nation’ resonates.

Of course, this notion is alien to some. As you say, they simply have no comprehension of identity and belonging.

bubblypop wrote: »

Ah will ya stop!
I wouldn't in a fit pay thousands if euros to pay to be a citizen!! Why would ya?

I suppose the concept of national pride and the sense of belonging is lost on you.

Me, if I moved to France with the intention to remain there decades I'd very vigorously learn the language, the customs, and get myself a citizenship so even though I was not French by birth I'd make my damndest to fit in and take pride in my new country.

bubblypop wrote: »

Says what exactly?

How little value you place on the privilege of Irish citizenship.

Hamachi wrote: »

And that says it all..

Says what exactly?

bubblypop wrote: »

You don't have any opinion?
Should u have a say in how this country is run?
What do you think?

I have no opinion. I’m happy to defer to our benevolent dictator, the esteemed Klaz.

bubblypop wrote: »

Ah will ya stop!
I wouldn't in a fit pay thousands if euros to pay to be a citizen!! Why would ya?

And that says it all..

Hamachi wrote: »

See Klaz’s response.

You don't have any opinion?
Should I have a say in how this country is run?
What do you think?

biko wrote: »

I would expect someone who moved here to have enough grá for the place to become a citizen.

Ah will ya stop!
I wouldn't in a fit pay thousands if euros to pay to be a citizen!! Why would ya?