smacl wrote: » Accusing another poster of trolling is most definitely back seat moderation and also constitutes a personal attack. If you think someone is trolling, report their post. The same applies to telling someone that they're off topic or that they are being inflammatory. With respect to getting new moderators or replacing existing ones, I would suggest you contact a CMod or Admin.
theological wrote: » I think in a personal capacity I'm entitled to state that I feel that a user is trolling when they make inflammatory remarks that have no relevance to the thread. I'm not the only one that observed this on the thread. I think you should engage with the criticism.
theological wrote: » The point is that I can happily criticise the Inquisition, or anything else, precisely because they are not Christian in any meaningful sense. All of these things are wholly irrelevant to the topic raised in the OP however which is an interesting one that deserves real discussion.
smacl wrote: » You're not the only one who has been carded for back seat moderation either. I would also point out that while complaining about posts being off topic you are also making off topic posts yourself. My point stands that I consider accusing anyone of being a troll constitutes back seat modding and will be dealt with on that basis. The same goes for posts which attempt to state what any other poster is or is not allowed to post. All of these thing should be dealt with using the report post function and not by starting a spat on-thread which basically attracts retaliation and derails the conversation for other posters. I have consciously being moderating this forum rather strictly specifically to eliminate this kind of behaviour which has been noted as a problem by the regulars here.
theological wrote: » The forum is a mess smacl. I personally don't mind if you choose not to call out Bannasidhe for off-topic trolling (which her post was), but choosing to basically gag people who point it out is precisely the reason why I think I'll be spending more time discussing with people who are much more informed on Reddit instead. Edit: It is also noticeable that Bannasidhe is also a moderator on the A&A forum, like you yourself are. Are you suggesting that there was no element of bias in this decision?
smacl wrote: » Firstly, let me just say that I find your repeated references to superior nature of conversations that you're having on reddit both blatently disrespectful of posters and mods here and highly condescending. You might want to rethink that line of conversation. With respect to Bannasidhe's post, I felt that while it was critical of atrocities carried out in the name of Christianity, it did not constitute an attack on the Christian faith per se. Your own subsequent posts underpinned this position with statements such as 'It is obvious that people have manipulated Christianity to suit political ends in the past' and 'I can happily criticise the Inquisition, or anything else, precisely because they are not Christian in any meaningful sense'. If you are allowed such criticism then so is any other poster. Bannasidhe's post was also in response to the OP stating that they considered the issue to be 'an anthropological problem', which could also be claimed of many atrocities committed in the name Christianity throughout history.
theological wrote: » The truth is never disrespectful. I personally would have been OK with Bannasidhe's remarks provided that we were entitled to criticise and point them out for what they were. Very obvious trolling. Atrocities carried out for political ends in the name of Christianity were obviously irrelevant to the topic of the thread. She pointed them out as if we were OK with them. We need proper moderation. It looks like your judgement was biased on that thread, and it looks like we need to raise this further because you're obviously unwilling to accept you made the wrong call.
CountNjord wrote: » I got carded myself and I am aware that a lot of people get carded while discussing anything with her, she seems to be able to say what she likes and able to turn it back to make it look like she's done nothing wrong. She wasn't following the forum charter, and it's easy to see that smacl is between a rock and a hard place. But it's plain to see that when said member responsible for a lot of people getting infractions and bans on board's hasn't exactly been kind about her views on religion. I don't think there should be the same moderator on two opposing forums. It isn't right.
CountNjord wrote: » The A+A forum was always a total mess, now the Christianity forum is getting that way too. It's not hard to see that Smacl is bias in all this. But dealing with a moderator who's on both forums and running with the fox and running with the hound's isn't fair moderation. Christians should be running the show here, it's a Christian forum.
Bannasidhe wrote: » I did no such thing. I clearly said I, personally, found the life is a precious gift from God argument against the vaccine to be ironic given how many lives have been taken by religious people in the name of God. And no juncture did I claim anyone commenting in the thread or in the Christianity forum was in favour of such atrocities. I merely said they happened. I also clearly said all religions (with the caveat that sects such as the Quakers are blameless) have at times indulges in 'cleansing heresies' - all religions, not just Christianity. I did give an example relevant to when Christians killed fellow Christians as I felt Muslims killing Muslims wouldn't be pertinent. I am entitled to voice my opinion without being called a troll simply because you do not like what I have to say. That thread was not marked as for Christians only, so it is open to non-Christians to voice their opinion. You have ignored the opening, and main point, I made which is that I can understand how someone genuinely anti-abortion would have serious moral concerns with taking a vaccine that apparently used cells gained during an abortion - and I respect those concerns. Furthermore, I also stated that I could see vegans having ethical issues with a vaccine tested on animals. The thread was dragged off topic when you and a few others attempted a pile on to shut up the person commenting on a historical irony. And now the pile on has moved here where I am being accused of all sort of things. And used as a weapon against the forum mod. I did not breach the charter. I did not insult any religion. I did not accuse anyone of anything. I stated that I , personally, found something ironic and explained why. May I ask? Did even one of you hit the report button if I was 'obviously trolling' or would that have not suited the obvious agenda at play here?
theological wrote: » I will raise a thread in the Feedback forum on this tomorrow. Your post was intended to inflame and we got carded for pointing it out. It was completely off the topic of vaccinations and what is used to produce them. That's actually an interesting question from a Christian perspective, yet you chose to troll instead of engaging with it.
Dravokivich wrote: » If it's not hard see the bias, can you please present it? We are not in a position to work on perception here. Smacl's actions that I've seen are very much focused on the viewpoint of the forum they are moderating within. The feedback forum is for sitewide issues/improvements identified by members of boards. It is not to take up grievances one member has with another. One does not have to respond to a post one does not like. The ignore feature allows one to skip posts from members one does not wish to read. The report feature is a means to notify moderators of contentious issues one sees within a thread. You weren't carded for responding to them, you were carded because you assumed a position of authority within that thread. This is referred to as back seat moderation.
theological wrote: » Nonsense. The post was off topic and intended to provoke. The fact we were carded for pointing that out shows that this forum is quite frankly a mess. The fact that we can't discuss a simple topic without atheists primarily derailing threads by changing the topic or insinuating that Christians agree with the crusades or the inquisition just shows that amongst the other nonsense in that thread.
Dravokivich wrote: » Theological, If you feel a post is off topic, report it. If you feel a post is contrary to the forum for the sake of it, report it. If you find you are consistently in disagreement with a poster or a group of posters, ignore them. Whatever you do, don't engage them and try to control the flow of the discussion. This is back seat moderation and frowned upon on the entire site. You won't get anything different from the feedback forum.
theological wrote: » It's also convenient there's nowhere to appeal to on moderation. I think I'm done on Boards in respect to discussing Christianity. This forum is just A&A 2.0.
John Hutton wrote: » I don't think smacl is biased. In fact he went out of his way to be nice to me and to encourage my engagement and tried to make the forum a better place for Christians to post. Of course, one may make an error or a misjudgment without being biased. If there is an error in this case I cant judge as I have only read what is in this thread, but tbe thought occured to me, wouldn't using the Christian tag when making the thread have avoided this?
CountNjord wrote: » Well I think Smacl was caught between a rock and a hard place when Beannasidhe posted about the wrong doings of Christianity. That was no place to go pointing out to Christians what a lot of them get told frequently and is spouted out on forums and social media all over the world. She's a moderator and should know better, she's been dishing out bans, warnings and infractions for far less herself. She's quite the detective too, and is openly no fan of organised religion especially Christianity. I wouldn't post in that forum she's moderating ever again, because it's just a few regulars putting sticky plaster on the foundations trying to keep it going... It's like a run down town falling apart from lack of maintenance and good will. Smacl in general seems fair, but he shouldn't be allowing people in to troll and have free reign to dish out what they like.I remember a time when there was a moderator there and frequently he'd tell people including A+A moderator's that maybe they should stick to their own forum if they want to post whatever... Zero tolerance. I think the only reason myself and the other guy got carded is because Beannasidhe didn't like our feedback, felt she wasn't getting her own way. Reported us and Smacl had no other choice but to please her. She's always involved in people getting warnings, infractions and bans. Especially men for some odd reason.
antiskeptic wrote: » @smacl. Carded for a post in vaccine thread. Presumably for using the term 'vax-suckers' Clearly a perjorative term. But so is anti-vaxxer to describe anyone who doesn't slobber over the 'vaccination has been the most wonderful advancement ever so that answers all questions'. Tinfoil hat wearers, conspiracy theorists and all the rest. I take it your pro vaccine, but ought not a moderator be neutral and balanced?
growleaves wrote: » I think you should make the entire forum Christian-only. As it stands, every second thread is filled with atheist yobs throwing around stupid digs. How can there be any decent discussion in such an atmosphere? Even when not in breach of charter, there is lots of deniable trolling like insisting Christians aren't allowed to eat shellfish by people who don't understand the relation of the Mosaic Law to Christianity. Very little of worth would be lost and much would be gained by doing this. Please seriously consider it.
smacl wrote: » I don't agree. The option to limit threads to Christians only is already there but has very rarely been used. This suggests to me that the Christians on this forum aren't largely concerned about non-Christians posting. Moderation on this forum is already quite a bit stricter than most other forums on boards and I reckon any further restrictions would have the effect of killing the forum off altogether. More importantly perhaps, the implication is that Christians and non-Christians cannot have a civil conversation on a bulletin board such as this, which in my experience is not the case. Personally I am of the opinion that social media already encourages far too much polarization forcing people to take one side or another of any argument. This can make forums such as this unpleasant spaces to hold conversations which is the exact opposite of what the community is hoping to achieve. I take on board the comments about low level trolling and am actively working to discourage it. To get more decent discussion you need to start creating your own threads and by all means mark them as [Christians only] if those are the only other posters you'd like involved. Similarly, if you see a post that is essentially trolling, report it rather than replying to it. Trolling only works if people respond to the trolls.
