Taoiseach shocked and dismayed at Sinn Fein TDs tweet on IRA attacks

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Have I missed something, who's this guy Browne?

Another of the Sinn Fein candidates they never expected to get elected.

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't understand why so many of the shinners are so quick to Apologise for ira events.

Off the record they would agree with any attacks, so it's time they actually did what that guy Browne has done, and stop apologising for their beliefs.

Say they think the attacks were justified and let the public decide if they want to vote for you or not.

Fed up with everyone apologising for their beliefs.

Fully agree with this. They really need to show their true colours as exclusionary nationalists and proud of it.

The faux woke clothing they wear needs to be discarded.

blanch152 wrote: »

Fully agree with this. They really need to show their true colours as exclusionary nationalists and proud of it.

The faux woke clothing they wear needs to be discarded.

Mary Lou spelled it out clearly on Claire Byrne...the interview you guys called a carcrash.
SF are not shying away from it or hiding it.

Very clear what the debate or line being drawn is, and I think it is great for our future - Who owns our history.

FG have set out their tent - that they own and are the only ones who can tell it.

We'll see how they get on with silencing any other version - never worked out well for anyone who tried that in the world. Look across the water for evidence of that.

We have a divided history and we need accomodation for how we tell it.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We have a divided history and we need accomodation for how we tell it.

A divided history between North & South, or the divided history within this state?

Hamsterchops wrote: »

A divided history between North & South, or the divided history within this state?

First thing needed is an apology from Sinn Fein for their support of the IRA. Then we can start the process of moving on. While there are people who still claim it was right, there is no moving on.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

A divided history between North & South, or the divided history within this state?

There is no agreed history, that is actually more normal than a fascistic urge to control the narrative which is what is happening here.

And I am delighted if this explodes into a full scale debate. Because we need to have it. FG/FF want to have it told one way and one way only.
They are spouting on about inclusivity and every time SF speak a UI is further away, not realising that Unionists have their version of history too, which doesn't agree with the FF/FG/SF one.

What to do? Have an adult conversation and agree a way everybody can have a version that doesn't disrespect/triumphalise or attempt to censor the other.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is no agreed history....

But what does that even mean?

No agreement about what?

blanch152 wrote: »

First thing needed is an apology from Sinn Fein for their support of the IRA. Then we can start the process of moving on. While there are people who still claim it was right, there is no moving on.

This isn't like Flanagan's support for the tans

Hamsterchops wrote: »

But what does that even mean?

No agreement about what?

He means Sinn Fein should be allowed to go around claiming that the Provos were righteous and that this should be accepted by the rest of us.

blanch152 wrote: »

He means Sinn Fein should be allowed to go around claiming that the Provos were righteous and that this should be accepted by the rest of us.

We should accept some people feel they were.

I don't want SF taking over the narrative as much as I don't want an apologetic whitewash from FG.

Bowie wrote: »

We should accept some people feel they were.

No, cannot accept that.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

But what does that even mean?

No agreement about what?

We can argue all night long about our history. There are different views. There is no agreed narrative. Many believe the Famine was the fault of England, many agree it wasn't etc etc etc.

It's an ongoing live discussion.

blanch152 wrote: »

No, cannot accept that.

You are part of the problem so.

Bowie wrote: »

You are part of the problem so.

No, anyone that thinks that the events of 27 August 1979 were a good thing or were justified is not a normal person.

blanch152 wrote: »

He means Sinn Fein should be allowed to go around claiming that the Provos were righteous and that this should be accepted by the rest of us.

The point is, you want to silence those who hold that view. What Stanley, Mary Lou and now the Tipp guy (can't remember his name) have said is sorry, we will not be silent.

Whether I agree with them or not, the debate has to be had. Unionists will want to have the same one.

You cannot silence blanch, you should know that from even a rudimentary read of history.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The point is, you want to silence those who hold that view. What Stanley, Mary Lou and now the Tipp guy (can't remember his name) have said is sorry, we will not be silent.

Whether I agree with them or not, the debate has to be had. Unionists will want to have the same one.

You cannot silence blanch, you should know that from even a rudimentary read of history.

No, let them express that view, let everyone hear them say that killing young children was a good thing, that it advanced the cause that went nowhere. It should be heard and everyone should listen to know the type of people who can approve of man’s inhumanity to other men.

blanch152 wrote: »

No, let them express that view, let everyone hear them say that killing young children was a good thing, that it advanced the cause that went nowhere. It should be heard and everyone should listen to know the type of people who can approve of man’s inhumanity to other men.

But Mary Lou didn't say that, she criticised car bombs. SF have moved on, their leader is prepared to accept that some of it was wrong, just like the gesture the monarch made when she came here.

There is progress to be made IF we have an honest conversation. But you CANNOT have a leader standing proudly under the portrait of a man who was as ruthless as any modern IRA person pontificating and moralising as part of this 'honest' conversation. Because there is a hypocrisy at the heart of this. An FG's in particular engagement with the issues is not honest.

I think Mary Lou's interview was brutally honest, hence why I thought it a good interview. SF seem to be setting their stall out here. They will not be silenced on these issues.

blanch152 wrote: »

He means Sinn Fein should be allowed to go around claiming that the Provos were righteous and that this should be accepted by the rest of us.

The Provos were cocky murdering psychopaths, we all know that, although I get the impression that we are at the beginning of a massive power struggle for the very soul of our recent history, a history which in living memory involved the Provos (illegal Terrorist movement) committing, murder mutilation & mayhem, while on the otherher hand (according to SF) being freedom fighters, patriots & myrters < total crap.

Thankfully the record is clear on what they really did, so SF can try all they like to distort & warp recent history, but the facts remain.

Maybe Brian Stanley has done us all a favour, so that the Shinners can be confronted head on about their version of Provo history.

ALL Provo attacks were wrong.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The Provos were cocky murdering psychopaths, we all know that, although I get the impression that we are at the beginning of a massive power struggle for the very soul of our recent history, a history which in living memory involved the Provos (illegal Terrorist movement) committing, murder mutilation & mayhem, while on the otherher hand (according to SF) being freedom fighters, patriots & myrters < total crap.

Thankfully the record is clear on what they really did, so SF can try all they like to distort & warp recent history, but the facts remain.

Maybe Brian Stanley has done us all a favour, so that the Shinners can be confronted head on about their version of Provo history.

ALL Provo attacks were wrong.

That is your version. There are others, is the point. Do you accept that there are other versions, and not just your one and the SF one?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That is your version. There are others, is the point. Do you accept that there are other versions, and not just your one and the SF one?

No, like our Taoisesch I do not accept there is another version of what the Provisional IRA did.

They took it upon themselves to murder people, without authorization or authority, they were illegal and illegitimate, a law onto themselves.

Hunted by the sucurity forces on both sides of the border for their crimes, bad eggs all of them.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

No, like our Taoisesch I do not accept there is another version of what the Provisional IRA did.

They took it upon themselves to murder people, without authorization or authority, they were illegal and illegitimate, a law onto themselves.

Hunted by the sucurity forces on both sides of the border for their crimes, bad eggs all of them.

So what do you propose as an answer to Unionists who will ask for FG and the Taoiseach to take down the Collins portraits and to not celebrate the people who achieved the independence that created the office of Taoiseach?

Arlene has put her cards on the table on this issue, repudiating the 1916 commemorations.

How do you deal with the different narratives Hamster? Stop worrying about your political rivals for a second, this is a bigger issue.

blanch152 wrote: »

No, anyone that thinks that the events of 27 August 1979 were a good thing or were justified is not a normal person.

In your opinion.
You are saying that all sides can only come together when they agree with you. You are not allowing for free will and other views.
I think the British have no business in Ireland, but I respect that unionists differ and it can't be all one way.
You are no different than a hardline nationalist or hardline unionist. Your way or nothing.
That makes your view part of the problem.

Floppybits

Another story about a FG member approaching another about some social media comments. Seems to me that all parties are partaking in this.
https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1337186963200356353?s=19

Bowie wrote: »

In your opinion.
You are saying that all sides can only come together when they agree with you. You are not allowing for free will and other views.
I think the British have no business in Ireland, but I respect that unionists differ and it can't be all one way.
You are no different than a hardline nationalist or hardline unionist. Your way or nothing.
That makes your view part of the problem.

That is why he can ally with belligerent Unionism. They both have an agreed narrative...for now. But I fancy that one will end in tears because it is founded on dishonesty.

SF want this conversation from what I can see, Mary Lou as leader has shown that she does not embrace all the IRA did. I think now is the time...bring it on because it is going to have to be had if we want a truly inclusive island. The politics of exclusion or a single narrative are over.

smurgen

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The Provos were cocky murdering psychopaths, we all know that, although I get the impression that we are at the beginning of a massive power struggle for the very soul of our recent history, a history which in living memory involved the Provos (illegal Terrorist movement) committing, murder mutilation & mayhem, while on the otherher hand (according to SF) being freedom fighters, patriots & myrters < total crap.

Thankfully the record is clear on what they really did, so SF can try all they like to distort & warp recent history, but the facts remain.

Maybe Brian Stanley has done us all a favour, so that the Shinners can be confronted head on about their version of Provo history.

ALL Provo attacks were wrong.

Just checked you posts. Nothing on the context of what was happening at the time so I thought interesting to post what was happening in my neck of the woods 100 years to the day. Terrorists indeed!

https://twitter.com/theirishstory/status/1337188962289508354?s=19

smurgen wrote: »

Just checked you posts. Nothing on the context of what was happening at the time so I thought interesting to post what was happening in my neck of the woods 100 years to the day. Terrorists indeed!

https://twitter.com/theirishstory/status/1337188962289508354?s=19

They are only pretend people smurgen, pictures on a wall. They didn't cry out in pain or fear death like us. They are talismans of where we came from, to be taken out when needed and put back in their box when not.

The above pictures are form 1920.

This thread is about the rightful disgust and outrage at a tweet issues by Brian Stanley (SF) who has tried to connect the events of 1920 with a horror in 1979 committed by an illegal organisation called the Provisional IRA.

The Taoisesch is correct, Leo Varadkar is correct, heck everybody is correct in condemning Stanley's tweet, which tries desperately & retrospectively to connect & justify some kind of link between 1920 and 1979/80.

Different Sinn Fein, different IRA, different context, different era. What the Provos did during their reign of terror is well within living memory.

smurgen

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The above pictures are form 1920.

This thread is about the rightful disgust and outrage at a tweet issues by Brian Stanley (SF) who has tried to connect the events of 1920 with a horror in 1979 committed by an illegal organisation called the Provisional IRA.

The Taoisesch is correct, Leo Varadkar is correct, heck everybody is correct in condemning Stanley's tweet, which tries desperately & retrospectively to connect & justify some kind of link between 1920 and 1979.

Different Sinn Fein, different IRA, different context, different era. What the Provos did during their reign of terror is well within living memory.

I didn't see Leo commemorate many of the centenary events this year to be honest. He also kept his mouth shut as did all of the FG TD's about the Glennane Gang documentary on RTE. A damming indictment of them and why they should keep quiet about victims on both sides.They are becoming indistinguishable from the DUP

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The above pictures are form 1920.

This thread is about the rightful disgust and outrage at a tweet issues by Brian Stanley (SF) who has tried to connect the events of 1920 with a horror in 1979 committed by an illegal organisation called the Provisional IRA.

The Taoisesch is correct, Leo Varadkar is correct, heck everybody is correct in condemning Stanley's tweet, which tries desperately & retrospectively to connect & justify some kind of link between 1920 and 1979.

Different Sinn Fein, different IRA, different context, different era. What the Provos did during their reign of terror is well within living memory.

If the Taoiseach is right why did they have dig to get a tweet and allege a homophobic insult, which is why he'll have to resign, if he does.

The Shinners aren't backing off on their view of the conflict/war (listen to MLMD's several interviews on the matter)

You are entitled to your view but that is the height of it.