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Tesla Model S

Gumbo

I'm test driving one on 6th April.
Any specific questions

No, I'm not buying, it's part of the SEAI Sustainable Ireland Convention in the RDS

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garo

So I got the phantom hum after the overnight charge today. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/continuous-faint-humming-noise-when-parked.152948/
I rebooted the car and lost LTE. I have lifetime premium connectivity. Another reboot and a drive will probably fix these issues but it is annoying nevertheless.

Gumbo

Not a video I’ve seen before, so nice to watch. May help anyone with the “common” issues on a MS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA1aHM0yfqI

unkel

Good video, thanks for sharing. Your man explains very well why a 12V battery in an EV (and in a Tesla in particular) has a shorter life span than in an ICE. I'd be tempted myself to replace the lead acid 12V battery with a LiFePo4 pack should my battery fail (and my warranty is up). Should be able to stand many times more cycles and will probably never have to be replaced again. You'd only need a 20Ah pack too, which should barely cost more than a branded lead acid.

garo

I got my VRT appeal rejected.

I cited a number of Irish cars for sale. The reply letter stated:

Basing your appeal solely on depreciation of UK vehicle valuations is not accepted. To make a VRT appeal the appellant is required to submit three valuations from garages in Ireland to support their claim that they were overcharged and that the OMSP was too high.

They cited a single car which is on sale by a garage here which happens to be a 70D compared to my 70 and is on sale for a ridiculous high price. Standard for dealers here.

ELM327

Pity the 4 seater in westmeath is no longer listed. That supported a lot of appeals !

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Pity the 4 seater in westmeath is no longer listed. That supported a lot of appeals !

Yes it did

It probably helped a lot that I included how much I was offered that car for. Which obviously was a lot less than the asking price.

unkel

garo wrote: »

I got my VRT appeal rejected.

Basing your appeal solely on depreciation of UK vehicle valuations is not accepted. To make a VRT appeal the appellant is required to submit three valuations from garages in Ireland to support their claim that they were overcharged and that the OMSP was too high. (I have found a similar version of your vehicle for sale in a garage priced at €45,950). Based on my review there is no refund due.

Sorry to hear, but OMSP is based on the value of the car in Ireland. Which can be hard enough to support with Irish ads, but usually UK ads (or what you paid for the car) are not that relevant. Unless it's an exotic car like a Ferrari, where there simply aren't any similar cars for sale in Ireland at any time.

How much did you pay again? Not an awful lot iirc. And your car will probably have slow depreciation / go up in value if the no-deal brexit goes ahead. Not the end of the world...

garo

I paid 1300 so the car was valued at 45k. I responded to the letter on the revenue website. A few things. There are two stat codes which are very similar to mine: 40689109 which is a 70D and 40389109 which is probably the Executive variant but is it worth arguing for as these are valued at about 39k and 40k for Revenue if it has the same age and mileage?
Also regarding the Irish fair price there is a passage in the VRT manual:
3.1.2 To assist in the calculation of the likely VRT using this method, a VRT estimate formhas been devised. Using this form, it is possible to estimate the VRT due on a particular vehicle by establishing retail ratios between similar models that are on sale in both the UK and Ireland. By applying an average of those ratios to the particular vehicle, it is possible to estimate to a degree of confidence the likely OMSP that may be determined by Revenue officials for this vehicle when it is presented for registration and thus the expected VRT liability.

slave1

Hey Garo, have Revenue got back to you on your appeal at all?

garo

Yeah see post 1445 above. Sending you an email.

ELM327

I see Tesla is now on the configurator!

Gumbo

Anyone have real life experience of Tesla offering goodwill on the door handle issue?

One or 2 Guys on the FB group are reporting that no goodwill is being offered.

I could have sworn Tesla will provide free labour if you buy the part now???

unkel

I was told by Tesla Sandyford that they now fix them with free labour. You still pay for the part, which is eye-wateringly expensive though. But it's a bitch of a job to do, so at least you'd save yourself the trouble.

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

I was told by Tesla Sandyford that they now fix them with free labour. You still pay for the part, which is eye-wateringly expensive though. But it's a bitch of a job to do, so at least you'd save yourself the trouble.

One guy ordered the part today and was told the ranger will fix it but it will cost the rangers hourly rate. Waiting to find out the cost of the part as the usual Tesla hourly rate is €130.

unkel

I could understand if you have to be booked into Sandyford to get the job done free of (labour) charge and if you want the convenience of the ranger doing the job at your home or place of work, you will have to pay for that. This is a goodwill gesture from Tesla for cars that our out of warranty. This approach would be entirely reasonable imho.

Kramer

I thought this was funny.

"The battery lasts 200,000 to 300,000 miles (unless it doesn't), but this one has just been replaced at 130k miles".

Tesla only repair the cells apparently & don't fit new batteries. The longevity/warranty after that is.............unknown.

It seems every early Model S has had, or will need to have, a battery replacement. Thankfully they all came with an 8 year, unlimited mileage warranty.

Imagine if they had only came with a 100k mile warranty, like the Model 3 SR(+) :eek:.

unkel

Kramer wrote: »

Tesla only repair the cells apparently & don't fit new batteries.

Not quite correct. Tesla take out your whole battery pack and replace it with a refurbished pack. That's these days, in the past you might have got a brand new pack.

We don't know yet how much Tesla will start charging for this job when the warranty is up, as all battery pack replacements worldwide so far have been done for free under warranty

But I think it is reasonable to assume that if they charge too much, independents will pick up on this and offer a battery fix for much less money (that's exactly what happened when Tesla charged $3k to fix the MCU1 problem). It's of course not like all 8000+ 18650 cells in the battery will have failed all at once. Perhaps it's just one (of the 17 in a Model S 85) modules that has failed. A second hand module on eBay is about $1000 last time I looked

And there is no reason why someone could not open a module and replace one or a few individual 18650 cells. Even do it DIY. That's exactly what people did with faulty Toyota / Lexus hybrid batteries many years ago. I do this myself all the time with eBikes and electric scooters.

Kramer wrote: »

The longevity/warranty after that is.............unknown.

I think it is safe to assume that the warranty has the same end date as the original warranty. A bit like the Halfords battery for my Porsche that I bought in January of last year and came with a 3 year warranty. This battery has now been replaced twice under warranty already (by a brand new one). You get to keep your original warranty receipt.

slave1

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Looking at model s again after doing sums now with my home PV system and factoring in bik while it’s available for first 50k

What routine maintenance needs to be done (I’m in Galway, don’t want go Dublin for minor routine maintenance ) beside tire changes. What has experience been for long term owners in this department

https://www.tesla.com/en_IE/support/car-maintenance

unkel

The crucial bit is even if you never service your Tesla, your warranty is still valid

(I don't think any other manufacturer ever has offered this)

zg3409

unkel wrote: »

Not quite correct. Tesla take out your whole battery pack and replace it with a refurbished pack. That's these days, in the past you might have got a brand new pack.

We don't know yet how much Tesla will start charging for this job when the warranty is up, as all battery pack replacements worldwide so far have been done for free under warranty

But I think it is reasonable to assume that if they charge too much, independents will pick up on this and offer a battery fix for much less money (that's exactly what happened when Tesla charged $3k to fix the MCU1 problem).

This US crowd fix Tesla batteries to the cell level and with the right diagnostics it can be done here too

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/features/457694/tesla-model-s-15000-deal-bad-battery-cell/amp/

It still might be a 5000 dollar fee for one bad cell, but still gets you back on the road, and presumably they might loan you a battery while you wait for diagnosis. That price should come down once more companies start offering the service.

Kramer

zg3409 wrote: »

It still might be a 5000 dollar fee for one bad cell, but still gets you back on the road, and presumably they might loan you a battery while you wait for diagnosis. That price should come down once more companies start offering the service.

$5k for one bad cell, just one of 7,000. What happens when another single cell fails, 6 months down the line? Another $5k?

Also, if Tesla detect anyone has repaired the battery, say bye bye to any DC charging, not alone supercharging, but all DC charging.

Don't think they won't be able to detect tampering either - they log everything. Log shows a battery fault & later doesn't, it'll be obvious it was replaced.

They are shooting for integrated batteries now so future repair will be impossible. Battery goes faulty = car is scrap :eek:.

unkel

I doubt some of the stuff he is saying. I can't see a single cell failing having any impact on the overall battery or render the car grounded. The bricks are something like 6S80P so if one parallel cell fails, the voltage stays the same and the capacity just drops by a bit over 1%. No big deal. If it shorts, it is fuse wired, so doesn't impact the rest of the battery

Also $5k is insane for that repair. What you do is remove the battery, test each brick, locate the faulty one and replace it with a second hand one (they cost about $1k each). Labour maybe $200-$300 for that and you keep the faulty brick. Either sell it on for a couple hundred or fix it and use in the above repair. So more of a $1250 job than a $5000 job

Anyway, nothing to worry about just yet. The oldest Teslas in Ireland are from 2014, so we will all have at least another year full warranty from Tesla. I might sell mine in July 2022. Any takers? :pac:

Lumen

NHTSA asks Tesla to recall Model S and Model X over MCU fiasco
https://electrek.co/2021/01/13/nhtsa-asks-tesla-recall-model-s-x-over-mcu-fiasco/

Who orders recalls in EU/Ireland?

garo

Ouch! That should be good for another 10% rise in the TSLA stock price. At least.

BigAl81

Yikes,

Some interesting quotes from The Verge article

"Tesla confirmed to NHTSA that all units with this chip “will inevitably fail,” according to the agency, and also provided a statistical model showing projected weekly repairs lasting from 2020 to 2028, with the most failures happening in 2022."

Yikes!

unkel

Well known problem, that's been around for years. Tesla have started fixing these free of charge, even for cars out of warranty. Cars still drive fine after it failed, so no safety issue. I don't understand why it would have to be a mandatory recall really.

My own one was replaced under warranty some time last year

The only bad thing is that some customers paid (big) money for this job - they really should be refunded imho

markpb

unkel wrote: »

Well known problem, that's been around for years. Tesla have started fixing these free of charge, even for cars out of warranty. Cars still drive fine after it failed, so no safety issue. I don't understand why it would have to be a mandatory recall really.

Total failure means no demister and potentially no indicators. That’s a pretty serious failure.

pdpmur

unkel wrote: »

I doubt some of the stuff he is saying. I can't see a single cell failing having any impact on the overall battery or render the car grounded. The bricks are something like 6S80P so if one parallel cell fails, the voltage stays the same and the capacity just drops by a bit over 1%. No big deal. If it shorts, it is fuse wired, so doesn't impact the rest of the battery

Also $5k is insane for that repair. What you do is remove the battery, test each brick, locate the faulty one and replace it with a second hand one (they cost about $1k each). Labour maybe $200-$300 for that and you keep the faulty brick. Either sell it on for a couple hundred or fix it and use in the above repair. So more of a $1250 job than a $5000 job:

All they seem to do is to disconnect the bad cell, they don't even replace it! It's only a matter of time when healthy competition surely will bring the price of this glorified bodge way down, which of course will help keep resale values of out-of-warranty cars from collapsing - good news for owners!

On the matter of why this works, maybe it's just that the BMS intentionally cripples the whole battery to protect it so that it both reduces the risk of battery fires (due to heating caused by increased internal resistance of cells) and makes it easier and cheaper for Tesla to re-condition the whole pack, rather than the whole battery pack going bad immediately?

Kramer

markpb wrote: »

Total failure means no demister and potentially no indicators. That’s a pretty serious failure.

Na, not really - the things drive themselves & can travel billions of miles without being in an accident.
Do you realise they can make fart sounds?

unkel

markpb wrote: »

Total failure means no demister and potentially no indicators. That’s a pretty serious failure.

That's pretty serious alright, car should not be driven like that. That said, it must be in exceptional cases only, never heard of that before and any MCU1 failures typically give signs / artifacts / freezes etc. for several months before a serious failure happens. Plenty of time to get it fixed

Anyway storm in a tea cup, free fix by Tesla and the problem will never happen again (as there is no longer excessive data logging on a memory card too small that can't handle it)

Big problem is the few people that paid big bucks to Tesla to have this fixed. They should be compensated. If I were one of them, I'd go get my money back.