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Inconclusive reactor

hopeso

I had an inconclusive reactor on the herd test yesterday. A 13 year old cow, on my holding for the last 11 years. The rest of the herd was spotless.... What are the chances of her passing again if I decide to retest her? Or should I just send her off?

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morphy87

hopeso wrote: »

I had an inconclusive reactor on the herd test yesterday. A 13 year old cow, on my holding for the last 11 years. The rest of the herd was spotless.... What are the chances of her passing again if I decide to retest her? Or should I just send her off?

I would give her the Benefit of doubt,a friend of mine had 3 down in the summer, he was restricted and they took them off him, when examined in the factory they had no lisasions so his restrictions were then lifted

dohc turbo2

Had one here 4 years ago she is still in the herd , gives a savage calf every year , just has to go to factory when being culled not the mart

hopeso

morphy87 wrote: »

I would give her the Benefit of doubt,a friend of mine had 3 down in the summer, he was restricted and they took them off him, when examined in the factory they had no lisasions so his restrictions were then lifted

That's interesting....My last inconclusive was about 15 years ago. A bull. I tested him the second time and he showed inconclusive again, which resulted in a fail. However, he was clear when tested after being killed, but I was still locked up for two months and had to have another clear test. I thought the restrictions would be even worse now.

wrangler

hopeso wrote: »

That's interesting....My last inconclusive was about 15 years ago. A bull. I tested him the second time and he showed inconclusive again, which resulted in a fail. However, he was clear when tested after being killed, but I was still locked up for two months and had to have another clear test. I thought the restrictions would be even worse now.

I never heard of anyone getting off because lesions didn't show, there's more lab tests that takes a long time, I don't think department would leave the herd untested until the full results come back

Tonynewholland

hopeso wrote: »

I had an inconclusive reactor on the herd test yesterday. A 13 year old cow, on my holding for the last 11 years. The rest of the herd was spotless.... What are the chances of her passing again if I decide to retest her? Or should I just send her off?

At her age I’d send her off.

hopeso

Tonynewholland wrote: »

At her age I’d send her off.

I'm leaning that way.... Would that be the end of the matter if she killed clear?

Mooooo

hopeso wrote: »

I'm leaning that way.... Would that be the end of the matter if she killed clear?

Afaik it's either restest her after 60 days or kill and they send cultures to the lab. The cultures can take longer alright but the longer you don't here the more likely it is she is negative.

Tonynewholland

hopeso wrote: »

I'm leaning that way.... Would that be the end of the matter if she killed clear?

They don’t always culture test these animals. Probably need at least one more clear test.

Who2

You have to ask for her to be cultured. It takes six weeks for the results and if clear you can get away with a single test if not you need two clear tests. A lot of this is determined by the department vet though and some will still require two clear tests, this was the case in my scenario anyway.

morphy87

hopeso wrote: »

That's interesting....My last inconclusive was about 15 years ago. A bull. I tested him the second time and he showed inconclusive again, which resulted in a fail. However, he was clear when tested after being killed, but I was still locked up for two months and had to have another clear test. I thought the restrictions would be even worse now.

Well that’s what he told me, wether he was telling the truth or not I don’t know, I haven’t a big lot of knowledge in this

whelan2

Who2 wrote: »

You have to ask for her to be cultured. It takes six weeks for the results and if clear you can get away with a single test if not you need two clear tests. A lot of this is determined by the department vet though and some will still require two clear tests, this was the case in my scenario anyway.

12 weeks now to get results. Meanwhile you are locked up

hopeso

Who2 wrote: »

You have to ask for her to be cultured. It takes six weeks for the results and if clear you can get away with a single test if not you need two clear tests. A lot of this is determined by the department vet though and some will still require two clear tests, this was the case in my scenario anyway.

It's worse than I thought..... If I hold her, and she passes the retest, am I in the clear?

Tonynewholland

hopeso wrote: »

It's worse than I thought..... If I hold her, and she passes the retest, am I in the clear?

Is there Tb in your area.

hopeso

Tonynewholland wrote: »

Is there Tb in your area.

Not neighbouring me, but there are a few herds not very far away...

Who2

whelan2 wrote: »

12 weeks now to get results. Meanwhile you are locked up

That’s the way it was here. 6 weeks, I’ve my first test next week.

hopeso

I have a couple of pens of bullocks that I planned to sell as forward stores in Feb/Mar. By the sounds of it, I guess I'm as well to start feeding them for finishing......

orm0nd

hopeso wrote: »

It's worse than I thought..... If I hold her, and she passes the retest, am I in the clear?

usually you go clear, unless there the dept consider otherwise due to neighbouring herds

the cow can only be sold directly to the factory irrespective of the re test result

Limestone Cowboy

whelan2 wrote: »

12 weeks now to get results. Meanwhile you are locked up

Its some balls. Got the dreaded phone call from dvo last week after 3yo cow I sold in September killed with suspected lesions.

whelan2

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Its some balls. Got the dreaded phone call from dvo last week after 3yo cow I sold in September killed with suspected lesions.

Yes it's a mess. 12 weeks is too long. I asked could I do a test and then I'd know either way. Thry said no, I had to wait for the result. Know of another man who had heifers to sell that were eligible for the bdgp, he too was locked up for 12 weeks and missed selling them.

morphy87

I haven’t much knowledge on this but I would like to know if I purchased cattle at the fall of the year and put them in a shed and if say one or twohad tb at time of purchase would this spread quickly when housed with other cattle, if housed say November and I was doing my annual test in March could I infect a shed of cattle,what would the chances be of something like this happening?

greysides

morphy87 wrote: »

I haven’t much knowledge on this but I would like to know if I purchased cattle at the fall of the year and put them in a shed and if say one or twohad tb at time of purchase would this spread quickly when housed with other cattle, if housed say November and I was doing my annual test in March could I infect a shed of cattle,what would the chances be of something like this happening?

Your question doesn't have a set answer, except....'it all depends..'.

Experimentally, sometimes it will spread, and sometimes it won't. There's a lot of variables, such as:

- the ventilation of the house
- the stocking density
- the standard of feeding
- the BCS of the animals
- the effectively of dosing
- the infectiousness of the carriers
- the virulence of the strain of TB
- other concurrent diseases
- etc.

Essentially, for animals in good health (say, fatteners) it will be slow to spread. For dairy cows under the pressures of heavy production, it will spread worse.

Not exactly the answer you were looking for, I'd say.

greysides

Back to the OPs question, to keep or not to keep. Another question which will only be answered by hindsight. To a degree it depends on your personality (risk taker or play it safer) plus what's at stake. A way to look on it is 'which option will you regret least if it goes wrong'.

Inconclusives are coming in for more attention these days than previously. An inconclusive that retests clear can't be sold except to slaughter. If a reactor is disclosed at a future test, all previous inconclusives still present will be taken also. During a test it now only takes one reactor to knock the inconclusives too. Previously it took two. Now, without reactors, once you have four inconclusives they all go. Previously you could have any number.

This is happening as statistical analysis is showing them to be much more likely to subsequently react than a clear animal.

I've always viewed them as risky, even if they come clear my advice would be to get shot of them at the earliest opportunity.

Anto_Meath

Rules seem to differ slightly depending on the department vet.
My understanding in our area is with an inconclusive animal, that animal is restricted but the rest are clear so you can buy & sell away. Regarding the inconclusive animal you have two options, test again in 60 days, good chance of going clear I find. Or you can kill the animal, if the animal is clear in the factory you will have a full herd test 60 days after the animal left the farm but you would only be restricted if the animal goes down in the factory. If the animal does go down on a retest or in the factory then you will be restricted for a minimum of 120 days. So think worse case, would you be better off to begin this restriction now or in two months if they go down.

greysides

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Rules seem to differ slightly depending on the department vet.
My understanding in our area is with an inconclusive animal, that animal is restricted but the rest are clear so you can buy & sell away. Regarding the inconclusive animal you have two options, test again in 60 days, good chance of going clear I find. Or you can kill the animal, if the animal is clear in the factory you will have a full herd test 60 days after the animal left the farm but you would only be restricted if the animal goes down in the factory. If the animal does go down on a retest or in the factory then you will be restricted for a minimum of 120 days. So think worse case, would you be better off to begin this restriction now or in two months if they go down.

Or kill the animal, if no lesions then instead of a HT the glands can be collected and cultured (which takes time before they can be sure nothing is going to grow).

Anto_Meath

greysides wrote: »

Or kill the animal, if no lesions then instead of a HT the glands can be collected and cultured (which takes time before they can be sure nothing is going to grow).

Thanks Greyside, didn't know about the glands been collected & cultured as an alternative option to full HT.

hopeso

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Rules seem to differ slightly depending on the department vet.
My understanding in our area is with an inconclusive animal, that animal is restricted but the rest are clear so you can buy & sell away. Regarding the inconclusive animal you have two options, test again in 60 days, good chance of going clear I find. Or you can kill the animal, if the animal is clear in the factory you will have a full herd test 60 days after the animal left the farm but you would only be restricted if the animal goes down in the factory. If the animal does go down on a retest or in the factory then you will be restricted for a minimum of 120 days. So think worse case, would you be better off to begin this restriction now or in two months if they go down.

My objective is to get out of this as fast as I can, without another herd test if possible. But, the fact that I'd have to have another clear test even if she kills clear in the factory is making the factory option less appealing.
If she tested clear again in 60 days, is there another clear herd test needed?

hopeso

greysides wrote: »

Or kill the animal, if no lesions then instead of a HT the glands can be collected and cultured (which takes time before they can be sure nothing is going to grow).

That might be a worthwhile consideration. Are you offered this option or would you have to ask for it?

greysides

hopeso wrote: »

If she tested clear again in 60 days, is there another clear herd test needed?

No.

hopeso wrote: »

That might be a worthwhile consideration. Are you offered this option or would you have to ask for it?

Should be offered. No harm in asking.

hopeso

orm0nd wrote: »

usually you go clear, unless there the dept consider otherwise due to neighbouring herds

the cow can only be sold directly to the factory irrespective of the re test result

That's a bit of hope anyway....

Any culled cows here would normally go to the factory anyway, so that wouldn't be such an issue.

mahoney_j

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Its some balls. Got the dreaded phone call from dvo last week after 3yo cow I sold in September killed with suspected lesions.

Suspected legions ......I’m currently locked up and whole system is a joke 2 cows down in test when dept vet called to blood then he requested to see another which he subsequently tagged and also blood tested the 2 that went down in test negative for blood and the third supposedly low positive on blood ...all 3 killed out clear in factory with no legions
Valuation process no issue got vey good price as had all the records and ped certs valuation accepted by me and dept cows gone a month this Friday and full comp only received for 2 cows the third I’ve got nothing only what she made in factory still waiting on net differential some ****e about the third cow going on a different permit and waiting on paperwork from someone within dept ....
If dept vets or our Normal vet practices loose or see vastly reduced tb testing a lot of them
Will be out of work ....farmer will continue to carry the can ....