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How do you feel about paying tax? US/Ireland comparison

Elite Genetics

I'm sure you're enjoying that €2250 annual bill for your M3. Here in the good old Texas there is no such thing cause 'merica, also no insurance required in Virginia. I guess we need to save the environment so pay up.

In all seriousness, even if you're an enthusiast it must be tear inducing to pay that much unless you're loaded to the point that it doesn't matter.

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Elite Genetics

teediddlyeye wrote: »

I fcuking hate this Irish ingrained Catholic guilt argument on needs vs wants. Why not just become a monk, take a vow of poverty and dig some of your own grave every day until you die. Fantastic use of resources.

Dont want a wasteful car dont drive one. Ireland is taking the p1ss at the opposite end of the spectrum to the US on motoring taxes.

You didn't know? Americans have guns to their heads forcing them to buy 6l engine trucks.

[Deleted User]

Cars in America are used as penis waving contests, absolutely stupid and absurd. At least the high tax keeps these out of Ireland.
Nothing more embarrassing see a massive lifted truck that should be in the Alaskan oil fields sitting in a McDonalds drive thru

Wishbone Ash

Isambard wrote: »

you've chosen not to drive extensively.. the rural lobby would argue.

....yes, and because of that choice, he/she should not have to pay the same as someone who does.

Wishbone Ash

salonfire wrote: »

...Nothing more embarrassing see a massive lifted truck that should be in the Alaskan oil fields sitting in a McDonalds drive thru

It's hardly embarrassing. I'd prefer it to looking at a Micra.

Andrewf20

Elite Genetics wrote: »

I'm sure you're enjoying that €2250 annual bill for your M3. Here in the good old Texas there is no such thing cause 'merica, also no insurance required in Virginia. I guess we need to save the environment so pay up.

In all seriousness, even if you're an enthusiast it must be tear inducing to pay that much unless you're loaded to the point that it doesn't matter.

Cars may be cheaper to tax and buy in the USA but cops are everywhere over there compared to here so any sort of enthusiastic driving will have the cops on your tail in no time. Its almost pointless having anything decent unless you are into track days.

I actually thought they were very heavy handed, pulling people for relatively benign things.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Tax is a disgrace here. I spent years in NZ driving whatever the hell I wanted, subarus, v8 ford's, huge pick up trucks and as long as you stuck $70 sticker on your car every year you were legal to drive. Insurance optional.

This country is a fûcking disgrace. It's so anti motorist. There's absolutely no need for the OUTRAGEOUS tax and insurance here.

[Deleted User]

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

....yes, and because of that choice, he/she should not have to pay the same as someone who does.

They dont. Those that drive less already pay way less in bloated fuel taxes.

[Deleted User]

salonfire wrote: »

At least the high tax keeps these out of Ireland.

Why does that need to be the case?

People dont like spending money on juice, so most try keep it at a minimum anyway. Most would consider our average cars pretty adequate, I'd consider it pretty pathetic. Dacia? Ffs cars for 3rd world countries.

Point is it'd be nice to have an option of even slightly above average without being penalised. Look at the uk. Much fairer tax system but you still dont see dodge rams everywhere.

Eric Cartman

salonfire wrote: »

Cars in America are used as penis waving contests, absolutely stupid and absurd. At least the high tax keeps these out of Ireland.
Nothing more embarrassing see a massive lifted truck that should be in the Alaskan oil fields sitting in a McDonalds drive thru

You clearly have never heard of the Dacia range of cars, or the Nissan Juke.

Thankfully most people can see that there are more to cars than simply getting from A to B and the extortionate tax here really limits ones ability to drive the cars you want.

I truly would love to see a car culture in Ireland where it was more common to see lovely V8 and V12 powered tanks humming around the streets.

Zascar

salonfire wrote: »

Cars in America are used as penis waving contests, absolutely stupid and absurd. At least the high tax keeps these out of Ireland.
Nothing more embarrassing see a massive lifted truck that should be in the Alaskan oil fields sitting in a McDonalds drive thru

Rubbish. If you live in a country like that and have the room, the roads and the infrastructure, they are absolutely brilliant. The best selling car of any type in the US is the ford F150 and there is a reason for it. Driving a little 1 litre mini type car after it is like a joke.

3d4life

Talking of the ewe esse of ay, I understand California will prohibit sales of new ICE cars from 2035. Given the (very) limited availability of non ICE cars at the present, its gonna need some ramp up of EV / fuel cell cars. Some say that to achieve it sales will need to be 50% non ICE by 2030. Thats 9 years away or just a couple of years more than the normal design to market time for a new car.

Buddy Bubs

There's plenty of nice stuff in between a 1 litre micra and the f150 pick up truck you can buy lads.

CelticRambler

Elite Genetics wrote: »

We are talking here about taxes. Are you saying that you prefer paying massive tax for owning a car and would prefer over not paying anything at all?

Zascar wrote: »

Now I live in Dubai, and like the OP in the USA, there are almost no taxes on cars here. Just a yearly registration/test fee of about €150.

Fitz II wrote: »

What you save on taxes in other countries you pay for in other areas such as lack of affordable healthcare, high criminal activity and lack public safety, oppressive religious beliefs and treatment of the outsider as slaves, unstable government, lack open access to the EU, lack of freedom of movement, extreme climates.

No need to go to the States or the Middle East - no vehicle/road tax here in France, and the Contrôle Technique (every two years) only costs about 75€. Affordable healthcare, stable government and freedom of movement - nothing like doing a 2000km roadtrip across a dozen countries without needing to show your passport or paying card transaction or mobile roaming fees.

)

Kaybaykwah

Zascar wrote: »

Rubbish. If you live in a country like that and have the room, the roads and the infrastructure, they are absolutely brilliant. The best selling car of any type in the US is the ford F150 and there is a reason for it. Driving a little 1 litre mini type car after it is like a joke.

People who buy pickups for everyday driving are not the smartest. Ever drive the F series trucks above 110km/hr?
You might experience the death wobble, believe me, it will make you want to go back to your Skoda. The F150s for the most part useless unless you are a contractor.

[Deleted User]

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

There's plenty of nice stuff in between a 1 litre micra and the f150 pick up truck you can buy lads.

The problem is we're skewed way towards the smaller end and once you start going much more than a diesel golf the rates start getting punitive. Ridiculous

lawred2

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

There's plenty of nice stuff in between a 1 litre micra and the f150 pick up truck you can buy lads.

That's what I was about to say

Triangle

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Tax is a disgrace here. I spent years in NZ driving whatever the hell I wanted, subarus, v8 ford's, huge pick up trucks and as long as you stuck $70 sticker on your car every year you were legal to drive. Insurance optional.

This country is a fûcking disgrace. It's so anti motorist. There's absolutely no need for the OUTRAGEOUS tax and insurance here.

NZ only pay for damage and rehabilitation. You get a handy 16k for a tip from behind in Ireland.

I'd love to see their no fault system brought in here.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Triangle wrote: »

NZ only pay for damage and rehabilitation. You get a handy 16k for a tip from behind.

I'd love to see their no fault system brought in here.

Not to mention paid leave off work plus other things. It wouldn't work here because of our chancer boss culture.

CiniO

Fitz II wrote: »

I despise paying tax, however it is the social contract we have to live with the freedoms, philosophy & society that Ireland affords us.

What you save on taxes in other countries you pay for in other areas such as lack of affordable healthcare, high criminal activity and lack public safety, oppressive religious beliefs and treatment of the outsider as slaves, unstable government, lack open access to the EU, lack of freedom of movement, extreme climates.

Its a grand little country we have here but there is a cost of entry and it be tax.

To be honest vast majority of EU countries have much lower taxes on cars and motoring, and don't present any of things you listed.

Ireland is one of the the countries in the EU, where motorists are being drained out of money the most.
I don't (never did and never will) understand the reason for that in a country where motoring is a base of people lives/economy/etc due to extensive rural living, and small population density through most of country's area.
So unless everyone moves to Dublin, and remaining 25 counties are abandoned, there will be a need for affordable motoring, which year by year is becoming less affordable.

Since I moved to Poland (country with GDP per capita 5 times lower than Ireland) I can clearly say that motoring here is more affordable to average person. That just shows how ridiculous is a whole situation in Ireland with cost of motortax/insurance....

smellyoldboot

I don't mind tax but in saying that mine will €170 for the year. The cost of everything else is ridiculous to the point of bizarre. €2k for insurance, about €700 in lessons and tests, a bizarre learning curriculum that hugely favours those with drivers already in the family over those who don't. VRT to prevent you sourcing cheaper options elsewhere. Eye watering fuel prices. Treasure Island.

Elite Genetics

CiniO wrote: »

To be honest vast majority of EU countries have much lower taxes on cars and motoring, and don't present any of things you listed.

Ireland is one of the the countries in the EU, where motorists are being drained out of money the most.
I don't (never did and never will) understand the reason for that in a country where motoring is a base of people lives/economy/etc due to extensive rural living, and small population density through most of country's area.
So unless everyone moves to Dublin, and remaining 25 counties are abandoned, there will be a need for affordable motoring, which year by year is becoming less affordable.

Since I moved to Poland (country with GDP per capita 5 times lower than Ireland) I can clearly say that motoring here is more affordable to average person. That just shows how ridiculous is a whole situation in Ireland with cost of motortax/insurance....

Great points, cannot comprehend that a country with such low density population and 0 options for other types of transport punishes the drivers most severely. Even if you ignore the tax, insurance prices are crippling when you're starting out. I can't wait to leave. I didn't know countries like New Zealand had such low rates and are so cheap overall.

NSAman

I have to say I am a car guy always have been.

When I was in Ireland the last car I owned was an Audi 2L. Have always enjoyed cars and despite having a large penis, I could never afford to run or purchase the cars that I wanted to.

Having lived in many countries, Ireland is an absolute rip off for motorists, not just in motor tax, not just in insurance, but in fuel and every aspect of driving.

I gave the last car to a family member.

I now own a couple of cars, tax is $120 a year. I have a Range Rover SVR, a Dodge Ram Limited 5.7l and for summer fun a nice corvette. Thing is, it’s not about showing wealth (some hope here) it’s about being in a car that has comfort, every conceivable safety option, is economical to run and is enjoyable to drive.

First and foremost safety is paramount for me. You don’t get charged the crazy extras (including VRT ) for safety options that you do in Ireland.

The costs of purchasing these cars is also not exorbitant like Ireland. Discounts exist on every car make here. Zero percent loans.. good leasing options.. it’s simple to buy here. I change every two years. Something different.

It’s fun to drive cars that are large engined not to mention safer than a 1litre micra.

Fitz II

CiniO wrote: »

To be honest vast majority of EU countries have much lower taxes on cars and motoring, and don't present any of things you listed.

Ireland is one of the the countries in the EU, where motorists are being drained out of money the most.
I don't (never did and never will) understand the reason for that in a country where motoring is a base of people lives/economy/etc due to extensive rural living, and small population density through most of country's area.
So unless everyone moves to Dublin, and remaining 25 counties are abandoned, there will be a need for affordable motoring, which year by year is becoming less affordable.

Since I moved to Poland (country with GDP per capita 5 times lower than Ireland) I can clearly say that motoring here is more affordable to average person. That just shows how ridiculous is a whole situation in Ireland with cost of motortax/insurance....

There is affordable motoring here if it is seen as a necessity, its just big engined and older cars they are discouraging. I pay 120 euro a year in motor tax on a 4wd car with a sub 4 second 0-60. I have chosen to pay big tax on big petrol cars in the past and grumbled about it, but there were alternatives. As for Poland having cheap motoring and 20% average GDP you kinda proved my points that you highlighted, I hear the far right is making great strides over there too.

mikeecho

The average wage in Poland is about €1,200pm, in Ireland it's closer to €4,000pm

Petrol in Ireland is ~€1.28 , in Poland it's just under €1

So while yearly tax etc is less in Poland, the wages are a lot lower, that means that they are paying a larger % of their income .

reubenreuben

I've had my eye on a 2007 jag XJ but tax is 1809 a year!

Yet if I buy the earlier XJ model that is over 30 year old, I pay 56 a year!

Explain that one.

endacl

Elite Genetics wrote: »

Here in the good old Texas there is no such thing cause 'merica, also no insurance required in Virginia.

Elite Genetics wrote: »

Great points, cannot comprehend that a country with such low density population and 0 options for other types of transport punishes the drivers most severely. Even if you ignore the tax, insurance prices are crippling when you're starting out. I can't wait to leave.

Have you moved back from the [sic] good old Texas since opening the thread? You should imaginary live in Saudi Arabia too while you're at it. Petrol is really cheap there.

marcos_94

reubenreuben wrote: »

I've had my eye on a 2007 jag XJ but tax is 1809 a year!

Yet if I buy the earlier XJ model that is over 30 year old, I pay 56 a year!

Explain that one.

Much easier to insure the 2007 for daily duty than the classic though. But thats another issue in Ireland where its both very difficult and expensive to insure a car thats 15+ years old as your daily!

reubenreuben

marcos_94 wrote: »

Much easier to insure the 2007 for daily duty than the classic though. But thats another issue in Ireland where its both very difficult and expensive to insure a car thats 15+ years old as your daily!

I don't understand the mentality that a car 15+ years old is a hindrance to insurance companies.

Some lovely looked after cars out there that are pre 2005, but a pain to insure and pain to tax ,yet plenty of life in them.
There is a good argument that keeping these cars running is better for the environment than scrapping and buying new ones. But the Greens will somehow twist the argument in their favour.
I don't want to buy an effing duster/micra/juke/qashqai ,I'd rather cut off me bits.

Wibbs

reubenreuben wrote: »

I don't understand the mentality that a car 15+ years old is a hindrance to insurance companies.

I can see some 15 year old junker bought for 200 quid a month ago could be an insurance risk alright, but a 15 year old car owned by the same driver since new with no claims? How likely are they to go and make a dubious claim? Then again the insurance industry claims older cars are a bigger risk, but will they release the actual figures so the rest of the driving public can examine them? Nope. The usual claim is that it's industry sensitive. Like many of their claims...

Some lovely looked after cars out there that are pre 2005, but a pain to insure and pain to tax ,yet plenty of life in them.
There is a good argument that keeping these cars running is better for the environment than scrapping and buying new ones. But the Greens will somehow twist the argument in their favour.

The greens as usual have their heads squarely up their arses. It's all about the money. Always follow the money. Your pre 2005 car has paid its purchase taxes, has paid the original cost, isn't on finance and in most cases can be more easily and more cheaply repaired than a 2020 car.

Every year it's on the road means one less new car for the carmakers and SIMI, less tax for the government, no loans to the banks etc. Beyond tax on fuel and road tax and insurance costs designed to make you want to change it's a financial black hole to the the car industry, government and financial institutions. It's got pretty much nothing to do with climate change, the environment or any of that, but all to do with keeping the consumerism monster fed(and the dopamine hit of the "new").

Look at how Japan operates. Because they're protective of their country's car producers they make hanging onto an older car a pain in the arse, but at least they're open about the whys. I could see some logic if we were a car producing nation, but we're not. France, Spain, Italy and Germany are and their costs are much lower across the board and you see more old cars on the road.

Cars are extremely costly in CO2 and other environmental costs to build. It's actually hard to quantify it completely the process is so deep. Just take the plastics in a car. Since the year 2000, humanity has produced half of all plastics ever made and every year as cars get more complex they contain more and more plastics. Yes leccy cars are in the long run better after they're built, but they cost more environmental points to manufacture. If the average person held onto the average new car ICE or EV for twice as long as they do currently it would make a huge dent in CO2 and all that other stuff we output, but there is huge resistance to that.

McGrath5

I don't enjoy paying all the associated taxes that comes with owning and running a car but it is what it is.

At the end of the day the rest of society is subsidizing me driving around and if anything the taxes on cars, private ones in particularly should be more than what they are now.

Not sure why the OP is comparing us with the US. I been over there loads of times and life is hopelessly dependent on the car. Its common not to be able to walk between buildings that are only a couple of hundred meters apart due to no footpath!